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MachopPower69

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Feb 18, 2018
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Remember when CK3 and Imperator Rome came out on their first versions? They had bad reviews. I can predict somewhat that if Vic3 will be announced that when it does release, there would be some hate towards it. Not Leviathan level, but Yellow Prussia level hate.

Let's list some reasons: Lack of content, buggy, exploitive (Courtesy of Feedbackgaming), harder mod creation, Vic2 vs Vic3 comparison to where people prefer Vic2 over Vic3.

Is the game going to suck? Maybe. Is the game going to be better thanks to the post-Leviathan chaos? Possibly. Will there be DLCs? Absolutely. Will there be hate? Yes.
 
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You are right about Imperator getting bad reveiws but CK3 was seen very positively on release, so if it is released I hope it turns out like that more.
 
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Well, I for one am disappointed by how they dumbed it down for the casual players to make it more like a phone game. It's just a map painter now. And I'm already angry about the stuff I predict will be in DLCs; it should have been in the base game.

... oh, it's not even announced yet? My apologies, I had my complaint pre-written and it posted a bit too early.
 
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vic 3 might have good reviews. lets assume for a moment it does. but i doubt vic 2 players will like it if it changes a lot and i doubt non vic 2 players will jump on 3 if it does not.

it was once said that vic 2 was not such a big success that part 3 would make sense so i wonder if we will ever see part 3 or if we even should want it
 
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Well, I for one am disappointed by how they dumbed it down for the casual players to make it more like a phone game
You joke but there will be people saying this in every dev diary. Incensed that a purely hypothetical Vicky 3 isn't as obtuse and complex as Vicky 2 is, and is actually a video game that a regulary strategy game enthusiast might actually want to buy and play.

Oh wait, you're not joking. You're resigning yourself to what we've all seen time and again. I think it might just be worth us cutting out comment sections and forums entirely at this point.
 
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Idk where you got that CK3 got negative reviews. I was one of the few critics of the release and farmed like 300 negative reactions in a week. CK3 fans are loyal and loved the game.

Imperator was objectively bad.
 
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Remember when CK3 and Imperator Rome came out on their first versions? They had bad reviews. I can predict somewhat that if Vic3 will be announced that when it does release, there would be some hate towards it. Not Leviathan level, but Yellow Prussia level hate.

Let's list some reasons: Lack of content, buggy, exploitive (Courtesy of Feedbackgaming), harder mod creation, Vic2 vs Vic3 comparison to where people prefer Vic2 over Vic3.

Is the game going to suck? Maybe. Is the game going to be better thanks to the post-Leviathan chaos? Possibly. Will there be DLCs? Absolutely. Will there be hate? Yes.
Three (four?) words. Hearts of Iron 4.

That's what's awaiting you with Victoria 3. Mass casualized garbage, vomit inducing holder of a name it doesn't deserve, reminder of a better time and design.
 
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vic 3 might have good reviews. lets assume for a moment it does. but i doubt vic 2 players will like it if it changes a lot and i doubt non vic 2 players will jump on 3 if it does not.

it was once said that vic 2 was not such a big success that part 3 would make sense so i wonder if we will ever see part 3 or if we even should want it
I agree that Vicky 2 players will not be happy if too much is changed or dumbed down, but I don't think it'll be the case for the latter - Vicky 2 is more than a decade old now, had non-steam copies, and still has more players on steam than Imperator. I think it not having as many players in comparison to PDX's other games is just simply because it was the last major pre-CK2 title they released.
 
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Three (four?) words. Hearts of Iron 4.

That's what's awaiting you with Victoria 3. Mass casualized garbage, vomit inducing holder of a name it doesn't deserve, reminder of a better time and design.
Again, depends on how they go. If the leaks are true and Wiz is the project lead then I have some hope since he knows what he's doing, and PDX showed with CK3 that they're still capable of mechanical innovation. However if focus trees become a big part of the game mechanics we're stuffed.
 
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Comes down to opinions I guess, I don't see in nearly every aspect how CK3 is better than 2. And that mechanical "innovation" has been dogshit.

Disagree on the Wiz being project lead automatically translates to success. And I guess that makes for even bigger irony since for those of us who remember, back when he was a modder and Goon, he had plenty to criticize in PDX development and design. Compared to what we got now, I'd take ten thousand years of design "back then". I'm still trying, without success, to refund HOI4. And while I'd been willing to let things slide for a good long while before that, that was the final straw. The last thing we need is that Paradox, the one we have now, murderhoboing Victoria. Let's be real now, the track record was all there. EU4 had lost it's way WELL before Leviathan. HOI4 absolute trash, and a community that's even bigger trash. CK3 an absolute nothingburger. Stellaris gone from promising and different to just a same old mana hoarder.

Hey, miracles can still happen though, y'know? Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2, which was also looking set to being an absolute dumpster fire,(let alone the pure, unadulterated shyte that is VtM 5E that Paradox let out the door) ended up getting the closest thing we got to being cancelled. Praying for lightning to strike twice tbh.
 
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This will be very good game only if You-Know-Who doesn't participate
 
Comes down to opinions I guess, I don't see in nearly every aspect how CK3 is better than 2. And that mechanical "innovation" has been dogshit.

I don't know where you got 'in nearly every aspect' from when all I said was that they innovated with CK3, but I think it should be fairly uncontroversial to say that Men-at-Arms, Innovations and Feudal Contracts are all objectively superior to their CK2 counterparts in both mechanical conception and implementation, and none of them are locked behind DLC. I can get how someone might not be a fan of religious tenets or hooks and stress or the lifestyle trees but most of the criticisms I've seen of them has been more on the basis of their implementation than the mechanics proper, and that the groundwork for those mechanics are still superior than they were in CK2. Graphics are also clearly better but I don't think that's a fair point given you have to have a major screw-up to be a sequel to a game and have worse graphics than it, while stability is another noticeable improvement over CK2.

While I can sympathize with many grognard's complaints about CK3, in particular its presentation and the fact it blatantly panders to the section of the fanbase that only wants a murderhobo sim, and think that a lot of the praise it got was simply because it was an actually decent launch surrounded by a bunch of dumpster fires, being unwilling to say any aspect is an improvement is not going to help the games improve in the ways they need to either.

Disagree on the Wiz being project lead automatically translates to success. And I guess that makes for even bigger irony since for those of us who remember, back when he was a modder and Goon, he had plenty to criticize in PDX development and design. Compared to what we got now, I'd take ten thousand years of design "back then". I'm still trying, without success, to refund HOI4. And while I'd been willing to let things slide for a good long while before that, that was the final straw. The last thing we need is that Paradox, the one we have now, murderhoboing Victoria. Let's be real now, the track record was all there. EU4 had lost it's way WELL before Leviathan. HOI4 absolute trash, and a community that's even bigger trash. CK3 an absolute nothingburger. Stellaris gone from promising and different to just a same old mana hoarder.

Hey, miracles can still happen though, y'know? Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines 2, which was also looking set to being an absolute dumpster fire,(let alone the pure, unadulterated shyte that is VtM 5E that Paradox let out the door) ended up getting the closest thing we got to being cancelled. Praying for lightning to strike twice tbh.

I didn't say Wiz being project lead automatically translates to success, I said that I can have some hope for the game if it's true. And yes, I still remember the days when Wiz was a CK2 modder, and I more vividly remember his tenure as EU4 lead as being the best time to play EU4.

How are you still trying to refund HOI4? For that matter why are you still trying to if you haven't been able to all these years?

Yes, EU4 got off the rails well before Leviathan; it happened chiefly because DDR 'Three Buttons' Jake took over and wanted to redesign the game entirely around his playstyle, which was only compounded by certain other developers he was associated with having severe cases of Dunning-Krueger. There's a reason why most of the older EU4 fanbase maintains that Rights of Man was the last good dlc. Yes, HOI4 is still a mess and certain sections of its modding community have managed to create an even larger legal mess. I'm not keeping track of Stellaris but from what I can tell the problem is that it keeps redesigning core mechanics in a way that they don't interact well with each other instaed of just 'mana' - which is a term that I don't think can be justifiably applied to any resource in Stellaris aside from Influence. I don't know how you can justifiably call CK3 a nothingburger in any capacity other than it wasn't a dumpster fire when people were expecting it to be. And while there is very good reason to be concerned, saying that PDX is going to make Vicky 3 a murderhobo sim is so absurd it's almost a parody of genuine apprehension.

If you don't want to play a Vicky 3 that won't meet whatever astronomic expectations you have for it, then don't get it. But the Vicky 2 playerbase has, for the better part of a decade, been asking for a game where the global currency supply isn't held together with magic glue - not wanting yourself to be disappointed is an incredibly petty reason to want the rest of the fanbase to be disappointed.
 
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I thought DDRJake had left.
I believe he's referring to a fellow whose design decisions have been detrimental to both EU4 and Imperator from their outsets. And who, if memory serves, was the one who put DDR in charge of EU4.
 
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the core of victoria 2 are the complex pops.

if they still have consciousness, militancy, literacy, life goods, everyday goods, luxury goods, money and political agenda. Then I don't see many reasons to be against the game.

There is a lot of room for improvements in other aspects:

- diplomacy
- colonizations
- tariffs
- combat system
- inventions/tech

I would like to see the focus trees from HoI4.
 
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the core of victoria 2 are the complex pops.

if they still have consciousness, militancy, literacy, life goods, everyday goods, luxury goods, money and political agenda. Then I don't see many reasons to be against the game.

There is a lot of room for improvements in other aspects:

- diplomacy
- colonizations
- tariffs
- combat system
- inventions/tech

I would like to see the focus trees from HoI4.
Focus trees have utility, but they subsume gameplay in HOI4. If they have to be in it needs to be more along the lines of Imperator's mission trees.
 
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Focus trees have utility, but they subsume gameplay in HOI4. If they have to be in it needs to be more along the lines of Imperator's mission trees.
Not the same, for industrialisation you need time and projects. In Hoi4 you can get a lot of highways after completing a 70 days focus. But I'm thinking more about 1-2 years to build important railways, or industrial centers like those in Rheinland.
 
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the core of victoria 2 are the complex pops.

if they still have consciousness, militancy, literacy, life goods, everyday goods, luxury goods, money and political agenda. Then I don't see many reasons to be against the game.

There is a lot of room for improvements in other aspects:

- diplomacy
- colonizations
- tariffs
- combat system
- inventions/tech

I would like to see the focus trees from HoI4.
If honestly, I would like to see some decisions for China. But there nothing yet. :c
 
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Not the same, for industrialisation you need time and projects. In Hoi4 you can get a lot of highways after completing a 70 days focus. But I'm thinking more about 1-2 years to build important railways, or industrial centers like those in Rheinland.
Instead of a bland system like a focus tree, which by the admittance of the devs only exists as a crutch for the AI to lean on, which has turned into honestly one of the most monsterous features of HoI4, it would be more interesting if you could actually use game mechanics, a combination of geography, locally available resources, private investement, accumulated knowledge and state investements, to pull of things like that. Not some sort of click button, wait, get reward system, off of which the only input directly needed is 1 fuhrermana a day (when the standard gain is 2 a day and a lot of countries have minister available to up that)
 
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