Culture Integration Strategies / Poll

[Tebriel]

Just curious about people's opinions:

1. When paying as Rome, which cultures do you typically integrate?
2. Which would be the most historically accurate cultures for Rome to integrate? (if any)
3. Is the game harder if you don't integrate ANY cultures, or is it harder if you integrate a large number of them?
4. Do you have any strategies for deciding which cultures you integrate? (I know the large ones are probably ideal, but what's the size threshold, and are there any good reasons to integrate mid or smaller cultures?)

 

[InsidiousMage]

Which would be the most historically accurate cultures for Rome to integrate? (if any)

Depends on what you mean by historically accurate. Rome's system of ranked citizenship (full citizenship, citizenship without suffrage, Latin rights) isn't really represented in the game, in part because of how alliances in the game work, but also because "cultures" weren't really integrated in the way the game represents it. Individuals and specific cities were given a variety of rights, up to and including citizenship, based on a variety of factors usually relating to their status as an ally or other diplomatic concerns. So, in that regard, no culture outside of Italy should be integrated because citizenship outside of Italy was given out in ad-hoc basis and was done for reasons not represented in the game. However, Rome's actual attitude towards handing out citizenship was incredibly pragmatic and ultimately pretty expansive so you should feel free to integrate any culture that you thinks offers you an advantage in doing so.

 

[DukeLeto42]

When paying as Rome, which cultures do you typically integrate?

Lepontic, to stabilize early conquests in Cisalpine Gaul and get some early levies there. I never incorporate Italian cultures, because while they would often give a significant boost to early military strength, they're already reasonably happy and anyways, I'm Rome and can win most early wars. After that, Macedonian - always incorporate Macedonian, because they and Magadhi will inevitably be some of the biggest cultures on the map. Finally, Punic is a good option, because Carthage is pretty big and it means you can go wild in North Africa.

Which would be the most historically accurate cultures for Rome to integrate? (if any)

InsidiousMage is correct - Rome created a suite of legal codes and associated rights to describe individual cultural positions in Roman society, and even despite the rework (which is an enormous improvement and one future PDX games should embrace) there is still an integrated / non-integrated divide that isn't really that reflective of the historical situation. I should, however, note that Greek / Hellenic cultures were accorded pride of place for non-Romans.

Is the game harder if you don't integrate ANY cultures, or is it harder if you integrate a large number of them?

Well, yes to both. Not integrating limits the military traditions you can take and means you need to assimilate everyone, both for your military and for your internal stability. This is particularly important as you move outside your own faith, since it slows assimilation and reduces happiness. However, integration has severe diminishing returns because of the negative happiness applied to all integrated cultures, so doing a lot of integration will also make things very hard.

Do you have any strategies for deciding which cultures you integrate? (I know the large ones are probably ideal, but what's the size threshold, and are there any good reasons to integrate mid or smaller cultures?)

There's some aspects above, but generally, consider:

• Do you need the strength? Getting those extra levies / legion capacity can be a big deal and be life-saving.
• Do you want to have that cultural group? Check whether you need / want to dip into the traditions that culture unlocks. It's a long-term consideration, but unless you plan to integrate and then downgrade their rights, you'll only be doing this a few times.
• Do you need it for stability? If you're going to fight multiple wars against nations of the same cultures, this will keep your new conquests stable in the meantime. This is especially true when they're not of your religion, as like I said above, integrating a culture not of your group that is also not of your faith will reduce the frequency of revolts by a lot.
• Is it one of the Big Cultures of the game? This mostly follows from the above, but Punic, Macedonian, Roman, and Magadhi will pretty much have massive cultures and their assimilation can stabilize whole regions of the world.

 

[Phili]

I integrate early starting with the Sabellians to help ( Diplomatically ) integrate my subject states and increase my Levie size when they have ( Diplomatically ) integrated.
My second Mission is always the Cisalpine Gaul; so I integrate the Etruscans and Leptonics to help keep the peace there. This gives me a big third Levie for my wars with Carthage.

You can only afford to integrate 4 or 5 cultures so for the biggest cultures that I don't integrate I like to grant rights of inheritance and legal contract to; enact the Religious law; "Lex Aelia Et Fufia" which gives a 20% boost to conversion speed and where loyalty is falling, build lots of Great Temples and Grand Theaters even if it means creating new cities.

Later I'll demote the Sabellians and replace them with other cultures.
The alternative to big levies is using mercs early and that costs money and gives a penalty to Military Experience.

 

[Tebriel]

Hmm, I thought you couldn't integrate and then downgrade again? Or maybe there's an in game message about not being able to reverse something that I'm not remembering fully.

Edit - ah, I think it was the "once started the integration process cannot be stopped" that confused me, making me think this decision was much larger than it really is. But it can be reverted after it's done, I guess. If that's the case I don't need to put as much thought and consideration into this as I figured (which is why I created this thread in the first place!).. so this was useful. Thanks all.

 

[DukeLeto42]

Hmm, I thought you couldn't integrate and then downgrade again? Or maybe there's an in game message about not being able to reverse something that I'm not remembering fully.

Edit - ah, I think it was the "once started the integration process cannot be stopped" that confused me, making me think this decision was much larger than it really is. But it can be reverted after it's done, I guess. If that's the case I don't need to put as much thought and consideration into this as I figured (which is why I created this thread in the first place!).. so this was useful. Thanks all.

The in-game message refers to extending most rights to your pops - "right of inheritance" and things like that cannot for the most part be retracted. Honestly it's mostly a warning that if you take the "colonize" decision on a culture, it will have -6% happiness until the end of the game. Maybe don't do that to Macedonian...

 

[Tebriel]

Yeah maybe colonize the small ones that'll be wiped out with time anyway.

 

[tuareg109]

I integrated Sabellian and Etruscan for those sweet early levies. Then I didn't integrate anything else, it wouldn't make sense RP wise and anyway Italy gave me enough soldiers. Macedonian has been all but wiped out now in Europe, it's all been replaced by Romans. I de-integrated Etruscan a while ago and they're almost all gone. A bit more and I'll take care of Sabellian too.

 

[Herennius]

I would probably do it like youtuber Steinwallen in his currently ongoing IR Lets Play with Rome - no one and turning everyone in Italia into a Feudatory.

 

[Fatboyonadiet]

Bearing in mind that Rome is a sledgehammer/steamroller it's good for a wide game of conquest.

With this style of play in mind, in answer to the question:

i) I integrate in this order

a) Lepontic : this does a few things. Gives you a nice sized second levy. This gives you more military tradition every time you disband. Personally, after I unlock the free innovations in the Roman tree I'm after "Castra" and "Pietas" in the Italic tree. So I need a barbarian group.

It also makes Cisalpine Gaul relatively stable. I'm only trying to spend money on Latium and save the rest up for a first Wonder.

Also, as I try to grab as many feudatories as possible and they are generally hopeless in getting to places unless you open a land route I'm trying primarily to grab Illyria, in order to open up Macedonia, as soon as possible.

Once I've unlocked the Barbarian I've probably integrated Macedonian and Cisalpine Gaul is stable, so unintegrate Lepontic.

b) Macedonian : great levies, gives access to Levantine tradition.

c) Punic: snatch Carthage and Zeugitana in one of your wars with Carthage: great big levy in North Africa: can now unlock Levantine for free innovations and also opens Punic tradition tree.

d) Armenian: this is my default choice for Persian tree

e) Magadhi: this usually my default choice for Indian tree. The games usually done and dusted at this point.

I'll also add that feudatories are also important in the early game and my first two client sates are usually Syracuse (n.b. depends on what Carthage has done and whether or not I got Siculia as feudatory) and Epirus.

ii) In the time frame of this game only part of Italy was really integrated. The social wars were 91-87 BC which largely integrated the 4 feudatories that you start with. True Roman integration really took place after the Empire was formed.

iii) The game is harder if there is no integration as you cannot unlock other military trees. Some of the rewards in these trees are HUGE!!

iv) See (i) above.

Hope that helps mate. Generally, if playing Rome, come out hard and fast!

 

[Oahkoah]

I never integrate Italics as Rome, they are already happy. I also abandon the Italian mission tree before completing Roman Hegemony until later in the game.

I start off integrating Lepontic very early. You don't need to if you're playing nice and steady, but those extra levies from Cisalpine Gaul can really fuel early wars.

I then just want cultures that will lead me to extra inventions, as they are one of the most precious resources in the game
Macedonian to unlock the Greek traditions, which then allows access to both Egyptian, and Persian. Persian is required to get Indian for their traditions.

I try and only have a few incorporated cultures at a time. So when I'm ready to incorporate Egyptian I'll lose Lepontic etc. I'll lose Persian as soon as I've got Indian.

I feel that once you have got the traditions unlocked there is not much point in holding onto a culture. Maybe just Roman and Macedonian in the end, and even then you could probably switch to straight up Roman.

EDIT: Oh, and when I did my one culture campaign as the Antigonids I did similar to above, unintegrating cultures when they were no longer useful, but using them as fuel to keep me rolling.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Imperator/comments/mjv4fq

 

[olivenkranz]

Not hellenistic?

 

[tuareg109]

I never integrate Italics as Rome, they are already happy. I also abandon the Italian mission tree before completing Roman Hegemony until later in the game.

I start off integrating Lepontic very early. You don't need to if you're playing nice and steady, but those extra levies from Cisalpine Gaul can really fuel early wars.

I then just want cultures that will lead me to extra inventions, as they are one of the most precious resources in the game
Macedonian to unlock the Greek traditions, which then allows access to both Egyptian, and Persian. Persian is required to get Indian for their traditions.

I try and only have a few incorporated cultures at a time. So when I'm ready to incorporate Egyptian I'll lose Lepontic etc. I'll lose Persian as soon as I've got Indian.

I feel that once you have got the traditions unlocked there is not much point in holding onto a culture. Maybe just Roman and Macedonian in the end, and even then you could probably switch to straight up Roman.

EDIT: Oh, and when I did my one culture campaign as the Antigonids I did similar to above, unintegrating cultures when they were no longer useful, but using them as fuel to keep me rolling.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Imperator/comments/mjv4fq

That's what I did to get Italo-Greek tradition. Integrated Macedonian, on the same day integration completed I got the tradition, and set them back to freeman.

 

[Herennius]

(...) and set them back to citizen.

You mean Freemen probably?

 

[tuareg109]

You mean Freemen probably?

Uh, yes, thanks for catching that.

 

[r3xm0rt1s]

If you want to make Hellenistic your primary culture, you may want to consider strategically integrating to control which regions will rebel in the civil war. It prefers where your primary culture that is about to be displaced is prominent. I had only prioritised unlocking traditions and innovations in my Egypt game, so it was fairly messy, took longer than necessary and wiped out many mission reward modifiers. The actual rebels stood no chance whatsoever against my capital legion.

Honestly, before I do this again, I will just mod out this chore of a mandatory civil war.

 

[Umrem300]

I only integrate cultures for the tradition tree once their populations are reduced to the near minimum requirement to unlock them. Appart from that I only assimilate.

As rome, I usually start by taking in as many feudatories and client states that I can to defend mainland Italy, to attack sicily when I declare war on cartage and to conquer Cisalpine Gaul.
So I don't see the point of integrating small italic states for Levies, as doing so causes integrated culture unhapiness.

If I wasn't playing as Rome though and played as Massalia then small culture integration for Levies holds much more significance.