Dev Diary #108: Dev Diary Scheduling & Community Activities

[Dathremo]

I suppose that after 2 years of content being released so slowly that glaciers could easily keep pace (and probably start to make distance on) I am not really surprised by the announcement that there will be a further months long drought of any substantive content addition to the game. I am glad the filler DDs are ending as far FAR too many people would almost as an involuntary reflex point to these to in lieu of real communication and now that will be over.

Just really wondering at what point Paradox will stop winking at consumers and insisting progress is being made rather than offering clear solid guidance as to what people can expect moving forward. Players deserve transparency and the Devs should be willing to be held to their commitments rather than nebulous 'soons' and 'in the future'
I mean I just think to myself what would happen to me in my job if my boss asked me what I was working on and I replied with the wording of one of the various 'updates' that PDX has put out.

In any case complaining about the state of the development has done little to nothing over the past 2 years, I expect it will do little to nothing over whatever remains in the life of development for CK3.

It really just is a shame watching this all happen in real time - if what is being worked on is anything like Royal Court then god help us all

 

[Germanicus_Caesar]

Not trying to be rude here, so please excuse me for being direct: after last week's "look forward to the next Update from us as it should have more information on the work we have been doing!", I expected a little bit more than basically "we're working on stuff, and it's not gonna release this year".

I'm well aware of the limitations you have regarding sharing the exact nature of the exciting new content you're working on, but this is the second week in a row that is a bit lacking content-wise.

It's a stark contrast to the Stellaris DevDiaries; they have more than one per week, and all full of new and upcoming content. When I think back to pre-RC times, when you guys even shared little sneak peeks during summer break with us, I can't help but notice the apparent drop in quality and quantity of CK3 DDs. Makes me wonder what happened between then and now.

Anyway, I appreciate the declaration of transparency and am looking forward to next week's DD.

Unfortunately, based on this DD, I’m not sure there will be a DD next week. If there is one, I don’t expect it to be substantial. Feels like this DD was trying to toe the line between “being transparent and communicative” and laying the groundwork for a pause in actual substantial information as it seems like they do not want to share plans for future content until that content is more firm.

In one sense, I appreciate the heads up that true substantial DD’s are going to become less frequent (helps manage expectations) but at the same time, it’s disappointing that true substantial DD’s are going to become less frequent (there is a joke in here somewhere about Paradox interactive inspiring this paradox in my feelings but I digress).

Anyway, thanks for the heads up. I imagine I’ll finish up my current campaign then take a break from the game and forums for a bit. Perfect timing to turn my attention to Vic3.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

I just want more new contents,is it really that hard?

I do wonder whether the addition of the console edition has really slowed down the development process. As CK2 added more mechanics, some of the windows just kept getting longer until (at least on my 1366x768 laptop screen) you had to use scroll bars to see newer features. That wasn't beautiful but it worked. That isn't really acceptable for consoles. And now you potentially have two versions of every UI and you really need to think hard about how the console UI will work at the earliest stages of developing a new mechanic (I don't see how it can just be left until the relevant patch is ported to console). The devs can't just mod in some clunky sliders while they work on the mechanic itself. It would be easier if the game was dumbed down to fit the console interface, but I'm sure that the devs are just as keen as the players not to see that happen.

And the fact that there are two parallel teams working on new content is going to multiply the complexity of this, since you've potentially got 6 UIs in use internally: stable PC, stable console, Stockholm alpha PC, Stockholm alpha console, Thalassic alpha PC, Thalassic alpha console.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

mean I just think to myself what would happen to me in my job if my boss asked me what I was working on and I replied with the wording of one of the various 'updates' that PDX has put out.

um, we're not the boss of them.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I do wonder whether the addition of the console edition has really slowed down the development process. As CK2 added more mechanics, some of the windows just kept getting longer until (at least on my 1366x768 laptop screen) you had to use scroll bars to see newer features. That wasn't beautiful but it worked. That isn't really acceptable for consoles. And now you potentially have two versions of every UI and you really need to think hard about how the console UI will work at the earliest stages of developing a new mechanic (I don't see how it can just be left until the relevant patch is ported to console). The devs can't just mod in some clunky sliders while they work on the mechanic itself. It would be easier if the game was dumbed down to fit the console interface, but I'm sure that the devs are just as keen as the players not to see that happen.

And the fact that there are two parallel teams working on new content is going to multiply the complexity of this, since you've potentially got 6 UIs in use internally: stable PC, stable console, Stockholm alpha PC, Stockholm alpha console, Thalassic alpha PC, Thalassic alpha console.

PDX are not the devs of the console version.

 

[InsidiousMage]

laying the groundwork for a pause in actual substantial information as it seems like they do not want to share plans for future content until that content is more firm.

Even if the devs don't want to talk about what they are working on in detail yet, something along the lines of this post from the HOI4 lead were they layout their basic vision for the immediate and near future of the game would do wonders.

 

[Slow Bathroom]

Basically:
Dev diaries are canceled until the next expansion is announced, probably after winter break. If we're lucky we'll get a free patch before winter break. If you want to interact with CK3 devs, go anywhere but here.

 

[Herennius]

First of all - thank you the info about future DD releases, its appreciated.

However, this...

Of course, if you’re experiencing any issues, pop over to the Bug Forums and report them: Link
As of the newly released 1.7.1, we’ve concluded the planned updates for this release, though if something significant appears, we’ll look into fixing it before the next update.

...raises a question for me:

Reporting issues is one thing...but if there is likely no 1.7.2... Can we still expect to see some visible reaction to all the reports which have been made since the last patch/DLC? And new ones we make from now following your quoted call above ?

I don't expect that each bug gets immediately tagged and categorized; I know there is a flood coming in after each release and the poor QA people have to wade through all them, separating real ones from duplicates, mod issues or misunderstood rules of the game...so a backlog is understandable. I just have the impression that there is never enough time after an update to catch up with all the reports. If you look through the entire bug forum - most bugs never get visible attention. I'm not saying that no attached tag means inevitably that the bug hasn't made ii in your database; I'm pretty sure there are cases where exactly this happened: Silently noted, logged, maybe even stealth-fixed. But is that really true for all of those visually untouched bugs? I have my doubts.

I know that asking for each and every report getting a response/categorization is probably too much of a mountain of work and would probably actuall harm the attempt to fix bugs, too...but I really hope you can move at least a bit in said direction. It currently feels too much like a lottery, if a bug gets any attention.

 

[Vityviktor]

I'm worried.

 

[Germanicus_Caesar]

Even if the devs don't want to talk about what they are working on in detail yet, something along the lines of this post from the HOI4 lead were they layout their basic vision for the immediate and near future of the game would do wonders.

I wholeheartedly agree. I can see why they’d be hesitant to do this for the fear of being beholden should things not go to plan and the backlash associated with that. However, I think the positives outweigh the potential negatives to this approach.

Oh well, I trust they have a vision and Im sure it will be fulfilled one day.

 

[Ben84]

Of course, if you’re experiencing any issues, pop over to the Bug Forums and report them: Link

Is already enough there for 1.7.2 + 1.7.3 + 1.7.4...happy new year!

 

[InsidiousMage]

Oh well, I trust they have a vision and Im sure it will be fulfilled one day.

Agree that they have a vision for the game but I would also like to know what that vision because, right now, the only kind of vision get from playing the game is one only concerned about powergaming and memes with juvenile tone or outlook more generally. Obviously, that is not all there is to the game but it feels like that is the real core of the game but the devs have never explicitly stated that is their intent for the game. If it is, well. . . . its their game and they can design it however they want and I would stop playing the game but if it isn't, what are their plans to address it? Like, just let the players know what the vision for the future of the game is so they can decide if they want to keep following the game or not instead of this vague nonsense that informs nothing and, honestly, is I think a core frustration for the players - they don't know if their patience and investment in the game will ever be rewarded.

 

[Mainland European]

I am only reading this forum for a short time, but I am quite surprised with the quite aggressive demand for new content. While I can understand such a sentiment for subscription-based games like MMOs I haven't really seen this for Singleplayer/Multiplayer games where you buy a copy and thats it. Isn't it normal to buy a game, play it until it does not offer you anything new and switch to another game until new content is released. Where does the impatience come from?

 

[Slow Bathroom]

Agree that they have a vision for the game but I would also like to know what that vision because, right now, the only kind of vision get from playing the game is one only concerned about powergaming and memes with juvenile tone or outlook more generally. Obviously, that is not all there is to the game but it feels like that is the real core of the game but the devs have never explicitly stated that is their intent for the game. If it is, well. . . . its their game and they can design it however they want and I would stop playing the game but if it isn't, what are their plans to address it? Like, just let the players know what the vision for the future of the game is so they can decide if they want to keep following the game or not instead of this vague nonsense that informs nothing and, honestly, is I think a core frustration for the players - they don't know if their patience and investment in the game will ever be rewarded.

They already said what their vision was in the zeroth dev diary:

• Character Focus: Crusader Kings is clearly and unequivocally about individual characters, unlike our other games. This makes CK most suited for memorable emergent stories, and we wanted to bring characters into all important gameplay mechanics (where possible.)
• Player Freedom and Progression: We want to cater to all player fantasies we can reasonably accommodate, allowing players to shape their ruler, heirs, dynasty and even religion to their liking - though there should of course be appropriate challenges to overcome.
• Player Stories: All events and scripted content should feel relevant, impactful and immersive in relation to the underlying simulation. That way, players will perceive and remember stories - their own stories, not the developers’ stories.
• Approachability: Crusader Kings III should be user friendly without compromising its general level of complexity and historical flavor. It’s nice if it’s easier to get into, but more than that, it should be clear what everything in the game is, what you might want to be doing, and how to go about it.

Obviously some of those things are lies, but if they made a new vision statement it would probably have the same lies.

 

[johnty5]

Ordinarily, I'd be in this thread pushing back against some of the more over-the-top negative posts and trying to encourage a bit of perspective.

But, honestly, what's the point?

We were told a couple of weeks back that there was a recognition that communication had been poor and plans were being put in place to improve. And now this.

Genuinely just feeling really disappointed and let down.

 

[Niall9]

I am only reading this forum for a short time, but I am quite surprised with the quite aggressive demand for new content. While I can understand such a sentiment for subscription-based games like MMOs I haven't really seen this for Singleplayer/Multiplayer games where you buy a copy and thats it. Isn't it normal to buy a game, play it until it does not offer you anything new and switch to another game until new content is released. Where does the impatience come from?

Yes. I am a bit disappointed but the developers owe me nothing. If they shut down development tomorrow I would be sad but they don't owe me to continue working on the game

 

[Germanicus_Caesar]

Agree that they have a vision for the game but I would also like to know what that vision because, right now, the only kind of vision get from playing the game is one only concerned about powergaming and memes with juvenile tone or outlook more generally. Obviously, that is not all there is to the game but it feels like that is the real core of the game but the devs have never explicitly stated that is their intent for the game. If it is, well. . . . its their game and they can design it however they want and I would stop playing the game but if it isn't, what are their plans to address it? Like, just let the players know what the vision for the future of the game is so they can decide if they want to keep following the game or not instead of this vague nonsense that informs nothing and, honestly, is I think a core frustration for the players - they don't know if their patience and investment in the game will ever be rewarded.

Hey, I hear ya. Like johnty5, I’m typically encouraging optimism, perspective, and patience. I have none of that for you here. This DD was vague and uninspiring. It does leave me wondering why they’re so reticent to share their plans for the future if other PDX games will readily do so.

Ordinarily, I'd be in this thread pushing back against some of the more over-the-top negative posts and trying to encourage a bit of perspective.

But, honestly, what's the point?

We were told a couple of weeks back that there was a recognition that communication had been poor and plans were being put in place to improve. And now this.

Genuinely just feeling really disappointed and let down.

Agree, man. Agree. I love the game, always will and I will be back. But I think it’s time for me to start taking my own advice and sit the game down for a bit (I think Insidious did this before FoI). Which is okay, I’ve got an IR: Rome game to finish, Vic3 to learn, non-PDX games to play, my books to read pile has been high, I may as well start Rings of Power or finish Stranger Things, and that’s not even mentioning my actual job or family so here’s to hoping December has some more exciting news for CK3.

 

[OnceSetCannotBeChanged]

Very disappointing. I guess I’ll check back in in a few months to see how things are going. I can’t even make it through a single session without some bug. Reporting bugs goes nowhere.

 

[Slow Bathroom]

I am only reading this forum for a short time, but I am quite surprised with the quite aggressive demand for new content. While I can understand such a sentiment for subscription-based games like MMOs I haven't really seen this for Singleplayer/Multiplayer games where you buy a copy and thats it. Isn't it normal to buy a game, play it until it does not offer you anything new and switch to another game until new content is released. Where does the impatience come from?

I think two years after release most of us were hoping for "Merchant Republics that fix all the problems the ones in CK2 had" but instead we got "AI Rulers actually join holy wars like they were supposed to"

 

[Cymsdale]

I am only reading this forum for a short time, but I am quite surprised with the quite aggressive demand for new content. While I can understand such a sentiment for subscription-based games like MMOs I haven't really seen this for Singleplayer/Multiplayer games where you buy a copy and thats it. Isn't it normal to buy a game, play it until it does not offer you anything new and switch to another game until new content is released. Where does the impatience come from?

I'm more impatient for bug fixes, but the way Paradox works you have to have the necessary evil of new content or order to get the next batch of fixes. And you pray to one day see the fabled release that fixes more bugs than the new content adds.

Stellaris seemed to figure a way out of this mess with the custodial team, EU4 had a major setback in this regard but seems to have course corrected well, but it feels like CK3 is just developed by a completely different company these days.