Any way to turn off the Witch nonsense?

[Silverbow]

For the love of God, give us a toggle for supernatural stuff. Invariably every single game gets eventually plagued by everybody and their pet frog becoming "witches" , and one can't even deal with that crap because executing them gives you dynastic kinslayer, meanwhile you can't even banish them because apparently being a witch can't be punished by lesser punishment than death. Hell, you can't even revoke their titles without excommunicating them first - and then you *still* can't banish them. This ridiculous, made-up nonsense should really be togglable. CK2 had supernatural toggle, why not CK3?
/rant

 

[kawamuratc]

The witches aren’t supernatural, unless you’ve got a mod running that adds magic.

 

[Silverbow]

Regardless, there never was such thing as "witch covens" widespread throughout royal dynasties. There is no such things as "witches" in reality. Why not give those of us who want to have a somewhat realistic game an option to turn it off?

 

[kawamuratc]

No, there are and were witches in reality. The game doesn’t include supernatural powers for them.

As for a more realistic game, I do hope in the future we get a refinement of folk magic practice. The disease resistance buff for witch coven, as well as the option from Northern Lords to help a courtier out with their curse, implies that we’re working with more benevolent folk magic, while the terms witch and witchcraft are more often reserved for malevolent magic.

In any case, the witch stuff in game is no more supernatural than any of the other religious stuff; that is, its all explainable by belief.

 

[Voy]

I suppose you could always go into the game files and remove the witch trait reference in the events. The event will still happen but no trait will be earned. Else, you can simply remove the event that triggers the witch trait acquisition by setting the trigger to "is_ai = no".

That being said, I haven't really seen any witches in my games. Gotta be kinda rare to see them snowball. I think the otherwise IRL rare genetic diseases are much more common which doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Comrade_Boris]

Witches once revealed usually quickly get their titles revoked by their liege and/or executed (even if their liege is a witch!). I have also found it is rare for large groups of witches to form. I get you might be frustrated with your current game but if you're not exaggerating, you have stubbled upon a very rare and unique situation.

 

[Rubidium]

No, there are and were witches in reality.

There really weren't. The whole "Witch Cult" hypothesis has been pretty conclusively debunked.

The game doesn’t include supernatural powers for them.

As for a more realistic game, I do hope in the future we get a refinement of folk magic practice. The disease resistance buff for witch coven, as well as the option from Northern Lords to help a courtier out with their curse, implies that we’re working with more benevolent folk magic, while the terms witch and witchcraft are more often reserved for malevolent magic.

In any case, the witch stuff in game is no more supernatural than any of the other religious stuff; that is, its all explainable by belief.

The events pretty explicitly portray witchcraft as worshiping an evil deity with formalized, concrete, ancient rituals (your "Grand Rite"). Not the local wisewoman having some herblore.

Covens are portrayed as structural, dynastic gatherings, often with associated orgies (you can pick up a lover at your Grand Rite, if you for some reason don't want a free perk). None of this has any basis in history or reality.

 

[Silverbow]

Witches once revealed usually quickly get their titles revoked by their liege and/or executed (even if their liege is a witch!). I have also found it is rare for large groups of witches to form. I get you might be frustrated with your current game but if you're not exaggerating, you have stubbled upon a very rare and unique situation.

I wish. This seems to happen every game for me, the larger the empire and the more widespread the dynasty the bigger the massive witchery. If I actually conquer the whole world (and I rarely do, it's not really fun), the game spams me with "witchcraft induction" (bear in mind my character is not a witch) for dynasty members every 5 seconds. Once they get going it snowballs out of control turbo fast.

 

[Comrade_Boris]

I wish. This seems to happen every game for me, the larger the empire and the more widespread the dynasty the bigger the massive witchery. If I actually conquer the whole world (and I rarely do, it's not really fun), the game spams me with "witchcraft induction" (bear in mind my character is not a witch) for dynasty members every 5 seconds. Once they get going it snowballs out of control turbo fast.

You're very (un)lucky then!

Interesting that you're getting the "witchcraft induction" message when you're not a witch. I checked the file game/common/scripted_triggers/00_witch_triggers.txt and it looks like it doesn't check if the house head is a witch to get that notification. This may be a bug if you wish to report it since for example it does check if the parents are witches in order to notify them.

 

[kawamuratc]

There really weren't. The whole "Witch Cult" hypothesis has been pretty conclusively debunked.

I said witches existed and exist. I didn’t say anything about the witch cult hypothesis.

The events pretty explicitly portray witchcraft as worshiping an evil deity with formalized, concrete, ancient rituals (your "Grand Rite"). Not the local wisewoman having some herblore.

Covens are portrayed as structural, dynastic gatherings, often with associated orgies (you can pick up a lover at your Grand Rite, if you for some reason don't want a free perk). None of this has any basis in history or reality.

Completely blanked on the Grand Rites though, which are in the style of witch-cults. Thank you for reminding me.

It underlines why I have such a desire for a reworking of how magic users are represented in game (I hope it happens with religion getting expanded). The game also describes witchcraft as really any magic working in the relevant doctrines, so there’s a lot of different and conflicting practices being thrown under the same trait.

 

[Grand Admiral Edward]

For the love of God, give us a toggle for supernatural stuff. Invariably every single game gets eventually plagued by everybody and their pet frog becoming "witches" , and one can't even deal with that crap because executing them gives you dynastic kinslayer, meanwhile you can't even banish them because apparently being a witch can't be punished by lesser punishment than death. Hell, you can't even revoke their titles without excommunicating them first - and then you *still* can't banish them. This ridiculous, made-up nonsense should really be togglable. CK2 had supernatural toggle, why not CK3?
/rant

Just convert (or found) a religion that accepts witchcraft. Problem solved. Besides, the Witch trait (-1 Diplomacy, +1 to intrigue and learning) is one of the more useful criminal traits. Followed by Deviant, then (at equal level, because they just grant a same trait opinion bonus) Incestuous, Fornicator, Adulterer, and Sodomite.
And as mentioned above, witch covens are also nice to be in.
You could also create/join a religion that accepts dynastic kinslayer. Not sure if those traits are like the other traits. If your religion accepts it, do you still gain them?

 

[Grand Admiral Edward]

There really weren't. The whole "Witch Cult" hypothesis has been pretty conclusively debunked.

The events pretty explicitly portray witchcraft as worshiping an evil deity with formalized, concrete, ancient rituals (your "Grand Rite"). Not the local wisewoman having some herblore.

Covens are portrayed as structural, dynastic gatherings, often with associated orgies (you can pick up a lover at your Grand Rite, if you for some reason don't want a free perk). None of this has any basis in history or reality.

Depends on the religion. For Christianity it is evil (don't remember about the Hellenic version, haven't played any other religion except for Norse, which the withc goddess seems to be fertility. And the coven gathering is usually herb lore or spending time with a lover. forget the third off hand, though. there's also the option (if it's triggered) to spend time with an uninvited guest. Or atleast one you didn't "invite".

 

[Silverbow]

Just convert (or found) a religion that accepts witchcraft. Problem solved. Besides, the Witch trait (-1 Diplomacy, +1 to intrigue and learning) is one of the more useful criminal traits. Followed by Deviant, then (at equal level, because they just grant a same trait opinion bonus) Incestuous, Fornicator, Adulterer, and Sodomite.
And as mentioned above, witch covens are also nice to be in.
You could also create/join a religion that accepts dynastic kinslayer. Not sure if those traits are like the other traits. If your religion accepts it, do you still gain them?

Yeah but I don't want to do that. I prefer to RP and therefore stay in the religion I started with.

Having to convert just to get rid of fantasy nuisance doesn't seem right.

 

[Dunerat]

Covens are portrayed as structural, dynastic gatherings, often with associated orgies (you can pick up a lover at your Grand Rite, if you for some reason don't want a free perk). None of this has any basis in history or reality.

ehem...
sounds like a medieval predecessor/version of the bohemian grove to me...or masons...or templars

 

[Grand Admiral Edward]

Yeah but I don't want to do that. I prefer to RP and therefore stay in the religion I started with.

Having to convert just to get rid of fantasy nuisance doesn't seem right.

Well, that's not a problem for me, since all the organized religions have problems. Christianity has sadistic as a sin (one of the better traits in the game. intrigue, prowess boost AND an unique ability), Islam gives the HORRID Clan government. Judaism has Cynical as a sin (love the +2 intrigue/learning that trait gives), and the Eastern religions have Wrathful as a sin (one of the better traits, top 10 easily). So I always play as an unreformed faith, and reform it when I can, which (unless vassalized to a feudal - or if you're a glutton for punishment - clan) you have to to become Feudal. Before Northern Lords, my religion of choice was Hellenic, now it's Norse.
Besides, just grant them a pardon and be done with it. Maybe you'll become a witch with all the good it does.

 

[Rubidium]

Depends on the religion. For Christianity it is evil (don't remember about the Hellenic version, haven't played any other religion except for Norse, which the withc goddess seems to be fertility. And the coven gathering is usually herb lore or spending time with a lover. forget the third off hand, though. there's also the option (if it's triggered) to spend time with an uninvited guest. Or atleast one you didn't "invite".

It always uses whatever the "evil god" is in the religions file. The religions aren't remotely customized enough for their witch cults to be fine-grained by religion. That's not even the worst example, as Eastern religion characters will sometimes find themselves praying to "Samsara" because that's treated as a god name and not a theological concept.

The third option of the witch coven is to get a free perk in a random tree. Which is so vastly superior to any alternative to almost always be an auto-pick unless you really want to RP.

 

[pengoyo]

It always uses whatever the "evil god" is in the religions file.

I believe that was the case on release, but it definitely isn't the case anymore. All faiths have a WitchGodName value. For some faiths they put an evil god there, but others either get a unique god or a non-evil deity, such as Norse uses Freyja (specifically: WitchGodName = germanic_good_god_freyja)

 

[kawamuratc]

Yeah but I don't want to do that. I prefer to RP and therefore stay in the religion I started with.

Having to convert just to get rid of fantasy nuisance doesn't seem right.

What’s the actual fantasy stuff you’ve found?

 

[Silverbow]

What’s the actual fantasy stuff you’ve found?

Kings and emperors being "witches". But maybe I just missed the historical occurrence where Henry III. got burned at the stake because he stubbornly insisted he's something that doesn't even exist and that he dances with Satan at midnight masses.

Well, that's not a problem for me, since all the organized religions have problems. Christianity has sadistic as a sin (one of the better traits in the game. intrigue, prowess boost AND an unique ability), Islam gives the HORRID Clan government. Judaism has Cynical as a sin (love the +2 intrigue/learning that trait gives), and the Eastern religions have Wrathful as a sin (one of the better traits, top 10 easily). So I always play as an unreformed faith, and reform it when I can, which (unless vassalized to a feudal - or if you're a glutton for punishment - clan) you have to to become Feudal. Before Northern Lords, my religion of choice was Hellenic, now it's Norse.
Besides, just grant them a pardon and be done with it. Maybe you'll become a witch with all the good it does.

Your playstyle seems to be completely different from mine. I would disinherit an heir with sadistic within a second, and I never do intrigue education or focus. But to each their own. I'm not asking to remove witchery, just to make it togglable.

 

[IanReSc]

How does one even become a witch? I have hundreds of hours in CK3 and have rarely ever seen a witch. How do they become a problem to the point that you needed a rule for them?

That being said, I don't see anything wrong with witches. There are no supernatural powers, at least no more than any religion provides, so why not treat them as a society? If anything we need more clubs, societies, gatherings and such.