Developer Corner | International Market

[SeekTruthFromFx]

You can make a fake deficit and the ai will lend lease you anyway

But only if you are already friends/faction members. So that's actually realistic. Lend-lease should depend on political factors, not economic ones.

It was in my original design but the more I and the coders looked into the requirements in both code and design wise, the more clear it was it would become basically its own separate but parallel system. ships are just not handled/coded the same way other equipment is.

That's completely understandable but hopefully we can get a naval market for a future patch/DLC cycle.

Will the chances of the AI allowing market access be affected by a spy's "pressure trade" mission, or their "diplomatic pressure" mission?

I would really, really like to see this. It would have to be locked behind both LaR and the forthcoming DLC with the International Market, but I think it would add a whole new set of interesting trade-offs. You could even make it possible for modders to add covert market access not visible to other players (i.e. arms smuggling).

Will the trade laws be changed so that they influence this system in some way like adjusting the costs of exporting and importing weapons? Say having anything other than free trade could raise costs of buying armaments from other countries?

Yes, it would be excellent if Trade Laws interacted with this system. Interaction between systems makes for engaging gameplay. But I don't see the economic logic of "anything other than free trade could raise cost". In real life, free trade makes your country's industries more competitive, but whether it gives you extra purchasing power depends very much on other aspects of your economic situation. The competitiveness part is already represented by the extra factory output, which gives the country more CIC (to spend on the International Market if it so wishes), and the situational part is already represented by the high quantity of Resources put into the Resources market (which gives you CIC to spend on the International Market if you have resources, and if other countries choose to purchase them). Happily, the Trade Laws are so well designed that no change is needed there.

But there are some effects that would be appropriate IMHO:

• Export Focus: If an IRL economy focuses on exports, then they earn hard currency (at the expense of domestic consumption). You see this today in the massive dollar investments held by export-oriented economies like PR China and Taiwan/ROC, and Germany's huge positive balance at the ECB. So this trade law should lower the cost of purchases on the International Market for the purchaser (whether it affects the seller is not important), since you've got the money to buy arms in cash at any time. I would balance this by making this law having a small (5%?) hit to Stability for owners of this DLC, because the loss of domestic consumption makes your population resentful.
• Closed Economy: This should raise the cost of International Market purchases, because you don't routinely have any hard currency for purchases. The CIVs that are used for the IM purchase must represent some domestic production being diverted to exports specifically to pay for that purchase (there are more exotic financing possibilities but they amount to the same thing), but those exports will perform poorly on export markets because of the lack of competitiveness. For example, if the USSR wants to buy tanks abroad they're going to need to sell Ladas or something, but those Ladas are rubbish compared to the free trade countries' Citroëns and Fords, and the Lada business doesn't have a dealer network or any brand awareness abroad, so you're going to have sell them at terrible margins, requiring more CIVs to be diverted for every tank you buy.
• Embargoed Economy: Significant increase to the cost of International Market purchases, because you have to smuggle them in!

Could this system could support mechanics which would force a country to give up a % of its military production to the international market?

I don't see how this would be possible, because if I understand the feature rightly, there is no direct use of MILs by the International Market. You can only purchase arms after they have been produced and moved to the Market Stockpile, i.e. only buy second-hand equipment. But maybe I have missed something.

Moving on in the dev diary, I'm not sure I entirely understand MIOs, but it looks like design companies are being reworked to where you pay factories/army XP/command power (unit of cost is not clear) to buff your design companies.

They explained MIOs in the last dd. They gain XP when you use them which you spend on traits, and the unique ones all have unique upgrade paths and options.

The key point here (and it was not very clear in the original DD) is that you level up MIO using special points that they collect by being assigned to research and production. So the more research and production 'contracts' you give them, the more powerful you can make them, encouraging specialization. There might be a PP cost to set them up (as with present design companies) but afterwards they are not competing for PP, factories, army/navy/air XP or CP with other priorities. They are potentionally competing with each other for production lines and research projects though (depending on what MIOs are scripted for your tag), so you still have interesting decisions to make. For this reason I think it's very unhelpful to say they "gain XP", because that has an existing meaning in the game of naval/military/air Experience. So devs, could we please have a specific name for the MIO points with an unambiguous abbreviation? 'MIO Capital', maybe (since economically they are acquiring human and financial capital from each contract)? I thought of Contract Points, but that's CP which is also confusing.

This interacts really interestingly with the new International Market feature! Light Fighters made with help from Rolls-Royce in ENG might be superior to any Light Fighters you could make yourself, because they have that MIO boost.

 

[homerCCCP]

I hope AI will adapt to this. Just to avoid having thousand Versionsnummer of "Fighter I" in stock.
AI if it is too far backwards in research should prefer to buy stuff rather than to produce it itself.

 

[BeauNiddle]

I'm prepared for a lot of downvotes, but with all due respect, I question the design decisions made here. I don't really understand the purpose of the "International Market," when one can simply ask for lend-lease when they are in need of equipment. #snip#

As somebody else mentioned in another thread - these systems seem tailor made for Sweden. Why bother researching all the AA techs and then assigning factories to them when you can just buy top of the line Bofors(?) guns with all the tech and all the (unique) MIO bonuses. Or buy AT guns from USA (if they keep their bonuses)

At the moment there is a whole load of material that is not researched / produced because the META says go with X. If the neutral countries start producing those items then maybe sparing some CiC in the late game to have fully kitted out forces is worthwhile.

Of course this is all dependent on the AI actually taking advantage of the new features & offering kit that is better than domestic industry can build. So it will probably require a massive rebalance. But here's hoping.

 

[Basileus2]

Question - will purchasing some equipment for a technology level you don't have help accelerate your own research of said technology? I would imagine if I as the UK purchased US fighter jets and I don't have fighter jets of my own that my scientists would be looking to reverse engineer that technology.

I guess the same could be said of captured equipment as well but I understand that might get endlessly complex.

 

[Dimmie_Dumm]

As somebody else mentioned in another thread - these systems seem tailor made for Sweden.

Yeah, something had to be invented to sell off as yet another DLC.

 

[Ringwraith_JP]

Please implement moddable modifiers to purchasing price, so specific countries can have facilitated access to itens for sale as per script.

 

[Umbosch]

From my game as manchukuo and his fight for autonomy with land leasing, i know there is a big problem with trading upgrade weapons. For example take a rifle that you can modifier in the old way. I give him a 1/1/1/1 and get my bonus. Then he modifier his own rifle with 2/1/1/1 and i am out. I mena is was some time 3/3/3/3 vs. 1/1/1/4 and i lost. Its the same as when a send him T1 rifle and he has research T2 rifle. I am out again.

Market access is a Diplo action to request access to a market and to offer access to your market thus it is a Bilateral relationship. Faction members share market access, as do puppets and overlords.

Great. I get it no more for free now i must pay. Save i my self then my autonomy lost when i buy wepons from Japan? How get the XP?

Either side can request to cancel the contract at any time no more deliveries are made and all payment to the Contract storage is returned to their originator.

How will handle the AI sell or buy weapons? I mean one day the AI i give you 2000 weapons and 1 day later or when the first at next month comes they cancel it why they need it for himself. Let it not be canceled for the first charge! Make it better as Germany.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Of course this is all dependent on the AI actually taking advantage of the new features & offering kit that is better than domestic industry can build. So it will probably require a massive rebalance. But here's hoping.

The best way to implement this isn't a massive rebalance, it's lots and lots of scripting, so that (at least in historical mode) Sweden has a MIO focused on AA, the UK hs one focused on light fighters and so on.

I hope it will at least be possible for modders to script such priorities.

 

[Andreu]

Will there be more War Effort cycles, adapting DLC mechanics to countries with older focuses?

 

[Eruth]

The best way to implement this isn't a massive rebalance, it's lots and lots of scripting, so that (at least in historical mode) Sweden has a MIO focused on AA, the UK hs one focused on light fighters and so on.

I hope it will at least be possible for modders to script such priorities.

As the devs said in this and the past DD, MIOs are set up fully through script and all the unique companies will, in fact, be u ique

 

[Fede92]

Happy to see that finally diplomacy seems to actually have a role in the game. I hope that also basic resources trade will be linked to diplomatic relationships.

 

[certuda9]

"The bank is a special container for CiC"
And then you realise CiC is actually a real bank.

Jokes aside, such a arms trading system is really a cool addition to the game.
Will the AI prioritize players when buying stuff, or will their decision be random?

 

[bitmode]

Something I've noticed with the last developer corner already: the intent and goal section is extremely short compared to the "flow". There's going to be UI panels to negotiate the various steps, we get it. I'd be more interested in why the devs felt this was needed, how it affects the AI, what this does to the balance of CIC/MIC and research slots, how different countries are incentivized to be either seller or buyer etc.

Equipment licensing is an existing, failed example of a system that sounds great on the surface but is not properly integrated with the rest of the game and fell completely flat.

 

[C0RAX]

Something I've noticed with the last developer corner already: the intent and goal section is extremely short compared to the "flow". There's going to be UI panels to negotiate the various steps, we get it. I'd be more interested in why the devs felt this was needed, how it affects the AI, what this does to the balance of CIC/MIC and research slots, how different countries are incentivized to be either seller or buyer etc.

Equipment licensing is an existing, failed example of a system that sounds great on the surface but is not properly integrated with the rest of the game and fell completely flat.

The AI and balance are still not something that's ready to be talked about since we are still mid development, new functionality is happening all the time and so it can change drastically from week to week. we will have dev diaries later on when things will be a much calmer state to show you how the final feature is balanced into the overall system and the precise behaviours of the AI.

 

[xtfoster]

For this reason I think it's very unhelpful to say they "gain XP", because that has an existing meaning in the game of naval/military/air Experience. So devs, could we please have a specific name for the MIO points with an unambiguous abbreviation? 'MIO Capital', maybe (since economically they are acquiring human and financial capital from each contract)? I thought of Contract Points, but that's CP which is also confusing.

Wait. There are more things than just Army/Navy/Air that use the term/abbreviation XP.
Units (Divisions/Ships/Planes) earn individual XP (in addition to the Army/Navy/Air XP they generate).
Spies and Leaders earn XP (very slowly for spies).
Spies and Leaders earn trait XP.
I'm sure there are others that earn XP but can't think of them off the top of my head.

 

[CanterburyITA]

Thanks for writing this blog. I understand this is very WIP.

Between this blog post and the previous one, I am really fearful that MIOs are not going to be fun. These just seem like more things to click from what you’ve shown so far. MIOs feel like “another aircraft designer” where it’s mostly a chore that you can at best not screw up rather than a series of interesting compounding and interrelated decisions. Perhaps I’m just not seeing it.

A few things to consider that might make this fun:
- How do two nations with a land route trade on the market? This should require trucks or trains from either the seller or buyer. That should be modeled instead of using convoys. Maybe sellers require a certain escort if a sea route?
- Spies should say “hey country X is trading to country Y”. possibly with a bonus for having infiltrated already.
- What if I do logistics strike or naval bombing in an area where enemy trucks trains or convoys are moving equipment? I should be able to destroy it. If so I should get a notification- what a glorious notification!!! that would be so fun. If the things just teleport, this is not a useful feature in a war game. (this is a general feature to add that when you destroy convoys it should say what was in it even if vague: “troops”, “oil”, “steel”, or when going the other way (for the CiC) “grain”, “goods”, “toasters” etc)
-Summarize old equipment - it should be possible to convert old foreign equipment to “Miscellaneous Infantry Equipment I” “Miscellaneous Towed Artillery II”, etc. This is a long-requested feature that would clean up stockpiles and likely slightly help performance and make arms sales to minors much simpler.

In short this all needs to integrate with the other systems and enemies need to have a vote or it’s just all a bunch of clicking and number inflation.

Thanks for creating this awesome game. I love HOI4. There’s a lot of opportunity cost here and if you’re going to work on this instead of fixing the aircraft designer then please consider some things like the above.

 

[Umbosch]

The AI and balance are still not something that's ready to be talked about since we are still mid development, new functionality is happening all the time and so it can change drastically from week to week. we will have dev diaries later on when things will be a much calmer state to show you how the final feature is balanced into the overall system and the precise behaviours of the AI.

Do you think the AI is in the moment balancing? The AI can not understandable diplomatic, trading (for example: Mengkukuo use his only factory to buy oil at day one, Japan steal Manchukuo Steel every day in a other number sometimes plus sometimes minus, sometimes zero and repeat) or land lease (Germany and Japan will give first equipment then one day later cancel or try to order planes from then before airmodules no problem but now...) and you believe if paradox make more new function it will work better? Realy? Sound for me escape forward or when we not talk over problems there arent any. Its not all bad what paradox produce but i like this doctrine not. The old to Hoi III Time when you have gift me CK II was better. In the moment the AI of CK III looks more understandable. From the frontlines i will not begin to talk...

 

[C0RAX]

I think it's very unhelpful to say they "gain XP", because that has an existing meaning in the game of naval/military/air Experience. So devs, could we please have a specific name for the MIO points with an unambiguous abbreviation? 'MIO Capital', maybe (since economically they are acquiring human and financial capital from each contract)? I thought of Contract Points, but that's CP which is also confusing.

As specified in my MIO dev corner the "xp" for MIO's is called "funds"

 

[Eruth]

The AI and balance are still not something that's ready to be talked about since we are still mid development, new functionality is happening all the time and so it can change drastically from week to week. we will have dev diaries later on when things will be a much calmer state to show you how the final feature is balanced into the overall system and the precise behaviours of the AI.

We’re not asking for balance specifics, we want to know why do think that this will improve the game

 

[Eruth]

Thanks for writing this blog. I understand this is very WIP.

Between this blog post and the previous one, I am really fearful that MIOs are not going to be fun. These just seem like more things to click from what you’ve shown so far. MIOs feel like “another aircraft designer” where it’s mostly a chore that you can at best not screw up rather than a series of interesting compounding and interrelated decisions. Perhaps I’m just not seeing it.

A few things to consider that might make this fun:
- How do two nations with a land route trade on the market? This should require trucks or trains from either the seller or buyer. That should be modeled instead of using convoys. Maybe sellers require a certain escort if a sea route?
- Spies should say “hey country X is trading to country Y”. possibly with a bonus for having infiltrated already.
- What if I do logistics strike or naval bombing in an area where enemy trucks trains or convoys are moving equipment? I should be able to destroy it. If so I should get a notification- what a glorious notification!!! that would be so fun. If the things just teleport, this is not a useful feature in a war game. (this is a general feature to add that when you destroy convoys it should say what was in it even if vague: “troops”, “oil”, “steel”, or when going the other way (for the CiC) “grain”, “goods”, “toasters” etc)
-Summarize old equipment - it should be possible to convert old foreign equipment to “Miscellaneous Infantry Equipment I” “Miscellaneous Towed Artillery II”, etc. This is a long-requested feature that would clean up stockpiles and likely slightly help performance and make arms sales to minors much simpler.

In short this all needs to integrate with the other systems and enemies need to have a vote or it’s just all a bunch of clicking and number inflation.

Thanks for creating this awesome game. I love HOI4. There’s a lot of opportunity cost here and if you’re going to work on this instead of fixing the aircraft designer then please consider some things like the above.

They integrate with production and research, as laid out in the previous DD. You choose which production lines they assist and which researches they conducts, gaining more XP the more you use them