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DarkBlue

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Dec 16, 2017
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I mean, in terms of diplomacy, America should not be colonization Africa etc.? Not only is it immersion breaking, but it also greatly upsets the balance of power, since there is now one non-European colonizer competiting for land... USA should not be doing that unless it is on an ahistorical path (like monarchist USA or something)

Of course, would be nicer if the base game can correct that
 
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I think each great power should have their own unique ai it’s really annoying seeing Austria colonise Africa and leave the Ottoman borders as the same since 1836
 
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I think each great power should have their own unique ai it’s really annoying seeing Austria colonise Africa and leave the Ottoman borders as the same since 1836
I mean, in terms of diplomacy, America should not be colonization Africa etc.? Not only is it immersion breaking, but it also greatly upsets the balance of power, since there is now one non-European colonizer competiting for land... USA should not be doing that unless it is on an ahistorical path (like monarchist USA or something)

Of course, would be nicer if the base game can correct that

I think, much like with every time something like this comes up, the solution would be improvements in the simulation and not carving out specific behaviors for AI. Some of this requires the tiniest bit of extra historical curiosity; why didn't the USA create any African colonies (aside from Liberia)? The answer is not "because the universe a priori requires the USA to not create any African colonies."

Arguably, the reasons are both political (left out of the simulation right now for foreign policy, so that's an ask) and material. Materially, by the time the USA was ready and able to maintain overseas colonies, a period kicked off by the Spanish-American war, the Scramble for Africa was mostly concluded and there was nowhere to take that wouldn't have resulted in impugning on another nation's sphere of influence; this is why the USA's primary colonies in the Caribbean and Pacific had to be wrested by force from the Spanish in the aforementioned war, with the tacit allowance of other GPs, especially the UK. This was itself something of a diplomatic coup and a real turning point for US-UK relations (which, again, will have to wait for the SoI expansion to really be modeled at all).

Another thing at issue for the US "not being ready" not being modeled is the notion that the game presents no real difference in setting up infrastructure and governing structures for settlers on the great plains and establishing colonial rule over hundreds of thousands of people thousands of miles away, aside from having to click in a slightly different place when an uprising pops up. In reality, that's a huge difference in logistical needs and capabilities; the game would actually need to model supply for that though so...

To summarize, to stop the USA from colonizing Africa we would need one or more of:
- a model of your people expressing opinions about foreign policy
- a model of war that has significant, noticeable consequences from the US civil war (that happens and makes sense) that would prevent them from affording colonization
- a model of colonization that makes it more difficult/expensive depending on where the colony is
- a diplomatic model for the mechanics of the Berlin Conference (beyond endless infamy-generating event spam, ugh) that leaves a historical USA out

And honestly the most important thing is that this doesn't prevent the USA from colonizing Africa; it merely makes it so that the USA only colonizes Africa in a world where that.. actually would kind of make sense. A USA that peacefully abolished slavery might have wealthy industrialists in Congress insisting that the light of Democracy needed to be brought into Darkest Africa. A muscular, militarily successful USA that successfully put down the rebellion more quickly might find it easier to sit down at the Berlin Conference and carve out its own sphere for resources/prestige than pick a fight with Spain decades later. That's why we play these games, right?

Mods can't do any of that, AI modifications can't do that. At best they can create a potemkin world that "looks kinda right" and breaks into utter nonsense once anything pushes the clockwork of exploitable AI out of order, bumbling along doing what it's "supposed to" in a world radically different than the one those decisions made sense in. This is called "the HoI4 model."

So the short answer is, game's not done and weird stuff will happen. Will it ever be done? Who knows. I'd rather keep whining at the devs to see if they'll finish it in a way that makes sense than try whine at modders for the impossible.
 
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I think each great power should have their own unique ai it’s really annoying seeing Austria colonise Africa and leave the Ottoman borders as the same since 1836
I think semi-bespoke and mutually exclusive journal entries would be cool. Austria *could* go colonize Africa, but first you need to have a diplomatic reproachment with the Ottomans like an alliance or something. Italy could pursue Africa or the Balkans, Prussia could pursue Germany or the Baltic Sea...

I don't want mission trees or focus trees, but a series of diverging paths for the AI to take so it has some real, tangible goal would be neat.
 
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I think semi-bespoke and mutually exclusive journal entries would be cool. Austria *could* go colonize Africa, but first you need to have a diplomatic reproachment with the Ottomans like an alliance or something. Italy could pursue Africa or the Balkans, Prussia could pursue Germany or the Baltic Sea...

I don't want mission trees or focus trees, but a series of diverging paths for the AI to take so it has some real, tangible goal would be neat.
But why? Why would we want two alternative paths of expansion for some country, while we literally have unlimited paths? Is Italy somehow prohibited from expanding into Africa or Balcans right now? AI countries should follow their goals according to current situation, and it's Devs' job to simulate the game accurately, so that countries might choose historically plausible goals.
 
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I think semi-bespoke and mutually exclusive journal entries would be cool. Austria *could* go colonize Africa, but first you need to have a diplomatic reproachment with the Ottomans like an alliance or something. Italy could pursue Africa or the Balkans, Prussia could pursue Germany or the Baltic Sea...

I don't want mission trees or focus trees, but a series of diverging paths for the AI to take so it has some real, tangible goal would be neat.
I wouldn't want journal entries to try and limit ai ahistorical actions since it would limit player actions but I think the ai should be improved in a way that it acts more historically
 
I wouldn't want journal entries to try and limit ai ahistorical actions since it would limit player actions but I think the ai should be improved in a way that it acts more historically
This can't be fixed in AI, because the ultimate History Ruiner is the meatbag at the keyboard.

The systems have to be such that there are credible incentives to behave quasi-historically – then the player, as well as the AI, has incentives to behave historically.
 
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@bugglesley Apart from reasons you mentioned, lack of american colonization of Africa was also caused my Monroe's Doctrine: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

Right now it is somehow simulated by lack of american Interest in Old World regions,but could be represented better.
For example, if IG's had influence over foreign policy, American IG's could be more reluctant for starting or joining Diplomatic Plays in Europe, Asia and Africa. Or it could function as a treaty, that once breaked gives big Infamy penalty to USA (or penalty to any European power trying to expand into Americas), a bit like Neutrality system I presented here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ries-infamy-system-rework-suggestion.1592728/
 
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The only mod that I know does something about this is the Victoria Flavor Mod, which adds a new colonial law that only allows you to colonise states that are neighbouring your incorporated states, by introducing a -200% colonisation speed penalty if you try to colonise in the wrong areas. The USA starts with that law. It is not currently updated to 1.4, but I imagine it will be soon enough. This allows the USA to colonise America without also having the ability to sail across the sea to Papua New Guinea and set up colonies there. I hope Paradox implements something like this in a less clunky way, to show that US colonisation was not focused on overseas areas in 1836.
Liberia would like a word.
Liberia must know a lot about mods.
Mods can't do any of that, AI modifications can't do that. At best they can create a potemkin world that "looks kinda right" and breaks into utter nonsense once anything pushes the clockwork of exploitable AI out of order, bumbling along doing what it's "supposed to" in a world radically different than the one those decisions made sense in. This is called "the HoI4 model."
I think a lot of people prefer a potemkin world that "looks kinda right" over something that looks plain wrong all the time. I don't think your suggestions are bad, making colonies actually cost something would be great! But currently colonies are essentially free and I don't think there are any stated plans to overhaul colonisation in 1.5 or 1.6/SoI. If someone wants a partial solution now instead of in a year or two they will have to look towards crude mod solutions.
 
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I think a lot of people prefer a potemkin world that "looks kinda right" over something that looks plain wrong all the time.
Probably.

For myself, I prefer a world that looks wrong-ish all the time but behaves reasonably consistently (even if that consistency is weirdly divergent from reality) to a world that looks right-ish right up until I poke the wrong piece of scenery and suddenly I am covered in bits of exploded world.
 
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