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CO Word of the Week #7

It’s time for the last CO Word of the Week this year. Next week we’ll start our holidays and will be away for a few weeks. But before the holidays there’s still time for the last patch, which is planned to go out this week. We will of course have full patch notes for you when it releases, but in the meantime, I can give you a sneak peek at what’s included. On the performance side of things, the patch adds the level of detail models for characters and improves the geometry layout for all assets. This won’t be the last update to performance, it takes us one more step towards our goals.

As promised, we’ve also managed to include a bunch of gameplay fixes and improvements. The patch changes how money is calculated and shown in your city. We hear your feedback and hope these improvements make the budget more transparent and easier to determine what new services your city can afford. We’re grateful for all the feedback you have shared, and we’ll continue to keep an eye on things to understand how things feel after the patch. We’ve also improved how vehicles change lanes, fixed situations where the resource amount stored would end up as a negative value, and added the line color to ships and cargo trains so you can easily see which lines they belong to.

The patch also includes a little holiday gift in the form of two new maps that were the result of internal testing of the Map Editor. There are still a few things missing from the Map Editor for it to be fully functional, like proper preview images showing off your amazing new maps, but we’re making good progress. I can’t wait to see what kind of maps you create! In the meantime, here’s the brief I gave the designers for the new maps based on some feedback we’ve gotten:

Land of the Eternal Sun
As the name suggests this area basks in the glory of the eternal sun. With literally no rain and steady warm temperatures this is an ideal choice for those looking to build with minimal input from the seasons.

Flatland
Hills, slopes, mountains? No thanks, I'd rather stay leveled. No need for contour lines on this land!

To my great disappointment, the designers changed both the names and the descriptions of the maps to “better fit the existing style” of the game. So Sunshine Peninsula and Corral Riches are the names of the new maps when you start a new game. Let us know what you think about them!

And then, as promised, let’s go over what our plans for Cities: Skylines II in 2024 are:

Modding
Bringing the mod support to the game is a high priority. This includes the map editor, code modding support, and the asset editor. The asset editor is the part that is most behind the schedule, but we will continue to work on it in January. We’ll be releasing Development Diaries related to the modding, and run an early access program for modders to try the tools before their release. Check out the previous WoW to sign up if you haven’t already!

Consoles
The console versions of the game were delayed and we’re working hard to get the performance and the stability up to par so we can bring the game on PS5 and Xbox Series X/S. The console versions will also have the modding tools (minus code modding) present on release so the players on console will also be able to create maps and add custom assets.

Expansion Pass
The DLC production is currently on hold and waiting for the higher priority work to be completed, but progress has already been made on the first Asset Pack, Content Creator Packs, and Radio Stations. CCPs are of course created by some of our favorite content creators in the community and the content for the radio is produced by Paradox.

Performance and bug fixing
While we’ve progressed quite a bit on the performance and bug fixing we’re still not satisfied and will continue to improve the quality of the game based on our internal findings and your bug reports and crash logs. To be honest, this is work that we’ll continue throughout the lifetime of the game, as I believe there’s always something we can improve upon, but the biggest remaining offenders should be sorted out during the spring.

Your suggestions/feedback
We'll be taking your suggestions and feedback on board regarding new content, features, and quality-of-life improvements that are not classified as bugs. Your feedback matters and we’ll be drawing inspiration from it for the lifetime of the project, just like we did for Cities: Skylines, so let’s keep the discussions going!

That is the current list of priorities we’ll have in 2024, though we will of course continue to keep an eye on your feedback and adjust our priorities as needed, especially when it comes to performance. We hope to bring you the features and missing platforms as soon as possible, and we’ll announce timelines as we get closer to each release so keep an eye on the CO Word of the Week in the new year for the latest news.

Next week there will be something to round up the year, but this little blog is taking a break until January 15th. I wish everyone lovely holidays and I look very much forward to getting back to work in the New Year!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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And how exactly would steam workshop help the situation of the Asset and Map editor not being ready?
It doesn't. The CO Word of Week talked about a lot of things besides Asset and Map editor.
We would have a lot of mods by now, in a safe enviroment if they just accept Steam Workshop. Plus, like she said: Consoles will have modding minus code modding. Why code modding can't be in Steam Workshop?
 
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Hello, thank you very much for your efforts. I wish you a happy holiday season as well.


I would like to share some thoughts on the game and my experience compared to CS1, the Sim* series, Cities XXL, etc.


To start, I raised my eyebrows when I read the information about the transparent budget and the ability to control your spending. I perceived no budget challenge in this series because money flows freely. You can have anything you want and there are no choices to be made.


On the contrary, I think a good budget should be able to offer extras. Imagine a big free concert funded by the city, fireworks, donations to associations, exhibitions, conferences, specific buildings (or improvements to unique buildings).


We could also imagine unemployment benefits or special assistance for the homeless. Or take on housing costs until the situation improves. We could imagine other budgetary policies to be activated or canceled in case of a setback.


The mayor's popularity is missing. As in CS1, dissatisfied people move away without really complaining. Political decisions should be able to be made with advantages and disadvantages. There are already policies, but these policies don't influence anything outside of numbers.


Even if it is impossible to lose, I think the challenge of having a good or bad reputation would be really realistic.


We could imagine interactions with neighboring cities. Even if it is invisible, to be able to help a neighboring city in difficulty, to be reprimanded by the government for spending or to have conditions to benefit from help. Neighboring cities would not have unlimited services.


For services, again, too much help. I think this option should be able to be removed or, in exchange for service, to pay the city with the possibility of requesting exceptional assistance. For example, a disaster kills dozens of people and my city does not have enough to cope with this temporary disaster. I would like to be able to request a one-time temporary assistance so as not to build additional buildings.

Specific comments:
  • Budget: The author suggests that the budget system should be more challenging, with the ability to provide extras for a well-managed city. They also suggest that the popularity of the mayor should be a factor in the game, with political decisions having both positive and negative consequences.
  • Interactions: The author suggests that the game should allow for interactions with neighboring cities, such as providing assistance or receiving funding.
  • Services: The author suggests that the service system should be more realistic, with neighboring cities not having unlimited resources. They also suggest that the option to request assistance should be available in case of a disaster.
 
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Second part:


In terms of crime, I would like to see more than just icons. Apart from the police car, crime is invisible in the city. I think that visual effects would be beneficial for the game. The same goes for the mayor's reputation, as crime makes the mayor less popular.


In terms of weather, I am disappointed that there is no fog, which is very well represented in photo mode. It is very beautiful. The hailstorm should be visible. The wind should have consequences on overhead electrical installations. CS1 was great for the tornado.


Again, for the budget, I think that the city should be able to help victims by paying for the repairs of buildings, if it chooses to do so.


Please improve the tornado and the snow...


To stay on the theme of disasters, I would like to see more variety in the types of fires. There could be fires, gas explosions (which could cause buildings to collapse), and arson.


Too much rain could cause the level of rivers to rise and change color.
 
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Thank you, I guess.
How did we get from "modding support will be available within days/weeks after the release" to "we don't have a timeframe yet"?

I mean, I bought the game as a Holidays gift to myself. Now CO is going to the holidays for a month and I guess we are stuck with whatever we have to spend our holidays with...

I guess it's time to write Santa and let him know that some people should be on his naughty list...
 
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You did not really answer anything, just gave a political reply. Do you acknowledge that after 150/200k population the simulation is so slow that the game is completely unplayable and hence a dealbreaker worth ultimately nothing?! Everyone has to start a new city at that point [...]
I'm sorry you are having difficulty playing the game but stating that the game is unplayable and everyone needs to start over after 200k is factually incorrect:

1702315090083.png


By definition, every sim game will slow down as the city grows. This has been the case forever. I remember having dead slow cities in SC2K, 3K, and SC4, which were not agent based simulations. The more there is to process, the slower it will be.

Perhaps you could share your system specs with us? In any case, I truly hope the upcoming patches help out with the performance issues you are experiencing, as the game gets really fun and challenging at higher populations!

Let's see what this week's patch brings us!
 
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It doesn't. The CO Word of Week talked about a lot of things besides Asset and Map editor.
We would have a lot of mods by now, in a safe enviroment if they just accept Steam Workshop. Plus, like she said: Consoles will have modding minus code modding. Why code modding can't be in Steam Workshop?
Then you wouldn't have consoles with custom assets. CO wanted the consoles to have custom assets, so Steam Workshop is crossed off the list. Simple as that.
 
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We don't have a definite answer to this yet, but we're looking into whether it makes sense to release separately or stick to our original plan to release support for code modding, map making, and asset creation at the same time.
My c2 would be unless this is some dependently on the game side i would like to see them as there ready. You have 3 groups of tools that will have some overlap from the moders / creator side i would think there mostly separate. This would give some of use a tools before others (i'm sore that will upset some people) but it would allow some of use get going. Plus it would let you stress the paradox mods site bit by bit.

Can we get a time frame for mod support i would be happy with we are hopping to have this out by the of the Q? 2024.


it's a good idea to add to existing threads on the same topic (if there are any) as that makes it easier for us to reference the feedback in the future.
I think the suggestions sub forum could do with a bit of that maybe the forum moderator could do some thread combining some threads are just one small idea other are 40 big changes.
 
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My c2 would be unless this is some dependently on the game side i would like to see them as there ready. You have 3 groups of tools that will have some overlap from the moders / creator side i would think there mostly separate. This would give some of use a tools before others (i'm sore that will upset some people) but it would allow some of use get going. Plus it would let you stress the paradox mods site bit by bit.

Can we get a time frame for mod support i would be happy with we are hopping to have this out by the of the Q? 2024.
The only thing I can say is that we're working as fast as we can and we're hoping to share timelines shortly after we are back to work after the holidays. For the partial release I'm with you that one, but let's see how the different areas come together and what makes most sense.
 
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I'm not a native English speaker, so I might lose something in translation, but the way it sounds to me is "things we promised long time ago will be ready whenever we feel like getting back to work and we are not gonna give you any time frames because we don't want to be kept accountable and because we don't want to stop the inflow of money from the naive players who might buy our game in the meantime"

How is it possible that almost two months after the release there is no understanding of what needs to be done to fix a part of the game that "supposedly" should have been mostly ready at the time of the release?

It's not unheard of for at least part of the company to work through the holidays when there are urgent things that have to done. If everybody in the company wants to have time off for the holidays - the company should have planned in advance and either complete (most) of the game before release, or tell us "hey, we want to celebrate holidays, so we will release the game in 2024"...

Can we at least get some dates here? Like:
December 22 - January 2 - the company is closed,
January 5 - the next patch with the following things is supposed to come out
January 15 - our CEO will finally be in the office and release the next word of the week..

Not giving us any truthful updates just looks like you want to drag people for as long as possible, so they would miss their refund windows...
 
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@co_martsu
Yes, Thanks for the Flet earth map ;) This makes my life way easier. But I hope there are at least some rivers and a costline with Islands. This I really like only Mountains and hills are annoying. :p
 
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You did not really answer anything, just gave a political reply. Do you acknowledge that after 150/200k population the simulation is so slow that the game is completely unplayable and hence a dealbreaker worth ultimately nothing?! Everyone has to start a new city at that point and, as much as I've always defended your design choices, this problem is with the codebase and the agent simulation system. Can you contradict me and say that it's not and that it's "just a fixable bug"?
Maybe I am missing something, but it seems that one cannot have cities with "infinite" populations (or more realistically, cities with populations in the mid to high 6 digits or even 7 digits) without putting extreme stress on both the CPU and GPU which certainly have to be the limiting factors. On consoles those limitations should be obvious and players should be told that there are maximum populations per each map within a range of some sort. In the case of PC players who all have different types of CPU's and GPU's, there also must be obvious limitations as to population size, but it would be more difficult for CO to project these limits, but nevertheless those limits must be addressed so that players know the practical population limits of the cities they are building.

It is obvious that some players only seem to care about building cities with the largest populations possible, whereas others like me prefer to build multiple cities and communities with varying populations. CO needs to recognize that they have a wide audience of players of all ages and abilities and objectives (which I assume they already do) and not succumb to only meeting the demands of the those PC players who demand both population maximums and perfection as to how the game performs at different levels. Maybe there needs to be TWO versions of the game: CS 2 and CS 2 Pro!
 
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Maybe I am missing something, but it seems that one cannot have cities with "infinite" populations (or more realistically, cities with populations in the mid to high 6 digits or even 7 digits) without putting extreme stress on both the CPU and GPU which certainly have to be the limiting factors. On consoles those limitations should be obvious and players should be told that there are maximum populations per each map within a range of some sort. In the case of PC players who all have different types of CPU's and GPU's, there also must be obvious limitations as to population size, but it would be more difficult for CO to project these limits, but nevertheless those limits must be addressed so that players know the practical population limits of the cities they are building.

It is obvious that some players only seem to care about building cities with the largest populations possible, whereas others like me prefer to build multiple cities and communities with varying populations. CO needs to recognize that they have a wide audience of players of all ages and abilities and objectives (which I assume they already do) and not succumb to only meeting the demands of the those PC players who demand both population maximums and perfection as to how the game performs at different levels. Maybe there needs to be TWO versions of the game: CS 2 and CS 2 Pro!
This is the pro version of CS1. It scales well with hardware. 6 cores to 250k, 8 cores to 550k, and 16(P) cores to 1.1M.
 
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If there are multiple lanes in the direction they're moving they should already do this, unless of course they also need to enter the parking lot.


We don't have a definite answer to this yet, but we're looking into whether it makes sense to release separately or stick to our original plan to release support for code modding, map making, and asset creation at the same time.


Applications are still open. :)


I can answer this one while Mariina is busy elsewhere. We're aiming for a few weeks early access before the release of modding support, but at this time we don't have a timeline or date for when it will start. And fingers crossed your mod doesn't require too much fixing after the patch.


Thanks for the additional details, I managed to find it. I'm afraid we don't have an update on the issue yet. We've been able to reproduce it, and we'll dig into it more when the higher priority issues are sorted.


Feedback is always welcome on the forum, also if it's been posted elsewhere before. Generally, it's a good idea to add to existing threads on the same topic (if there are any) as that makes it easier for us to reference the feedback in the future.

It's an interesting idea to have labels for that forum, though as the person who notes most of the feedback we get on the forum, I think it might just end up with all threads being marked the same, as we go through everything. So perhaps it wouldn't be so useful. Am I correct in assuming that you're mostly looking for confirmation that your feedback has been noted/received?
I feel like labels for feedback would be nice, they exist for bug reports, people there can see clearly if their voice has been heard or not, however with feedback there is no such thing and it leaves you in a sort of uncertainty, not knowing whether your voice has been heard or not, whether it has been seen or not and then further considered or rejected as an idea
 
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What feedback could that map possibly be based on?

Building on sloped terrain has been a problem since C:S1, and instead of finding a better way, your solution is a flat map?
Honestly... this is true, I wish CS2 handled terrain better and there are definietly ways to improve on that, so I'm hoping this is a temporary fix with a better plan that may come alone in the future.
After all, this game has a solid foundation and I don't see any limiting factors to why this couldn't be worked on eventually.
 
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