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CO Word of the Week #10

Hi Everyone! Let’s talk about the patching process and upcoming patch landing soon for Cities: Skylines II.

Generally speaking, patching the game is something we usually try to combine with upcoming releases, and only work on solely bug fixing patches if we don’t have a suitable release we can wait for. Or the fix is critical to release as fast as possible - a so-called hotfix patch. You may remember the free updates associated with the DLC releases in Cities: Skylines and in the long term that is the goal with the sequel as well. It’s a good way to sneak in some cool features and improvements to all the players, beefing up the base game, and making certain features part of it while the paid content expands on those new features allowing us to continue developing the game forward. One of the first examples of this approach was After Dark where the free update added the day and night cycle to all players and the DLC itself had specific content and features for the nightlife.

So we are working to improve the quality of Cities: Skylines II, just like we did with the first game, and this includes both improvements to the base as well as creating new content as paid DLC. We worked at a fast pace after the release last October to get as many fixes in as we could. Patching the game so often does take resources in itself so we opted out for a less frequent pace to focus on bigger additions and more impactful updates in the future. Therefore the upcoming patch 1.0.19 is the last “stand-alone” bug fixing patch for now. Next time the bug fixes will be joined by the first of the modding support for the game, albeit it will not be the final version but a public beta one as mentioned last week.

We’re working on a wide variety of fixes and improvements on top of the missing modding support and platforms. We have a list of reported issues from both you, QA, and the team here at Colossal Order. These issues are sorted based on the level of their severity and the time it takes to implement them so that we can churn out as many improvements to the game as possible with the time and resources we have available.

In practice, the patching process starts with the build version being locked so that no more changes are committed to it by the devs. The build goes through at least one QA round, where the listed issues are verified as either fixed or still occurring. Any new issues with the build are reported as well. Any outstanding issues are fixed and the new locked build version goes to QA. This step usually takes less than a week but can take longer depending on issues found and how quickly those are fixed. After the devs are happy with the build version it's sent to the publisher for their checks, including submissions to each platform and setting the patch ready to go live for the public. This can take a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the size and content of the patch. The release is always aimed so that it wouldn’t be right before the weekend, just to make sure that if any issues occur on the public release there is a team available to check it out. In the meantime, the devs are working on the game toward the next release whether it be fixes, improvements, or new content.

Patch 1.0.19 will include a collection of fixes for issues we’ve discovered internally or have been reported to us by you. Thank you again for all the reports, it’s much appreciated! Full patch notes will be available when the patch is released, but here’s a little summary of the things we’ve been working on.

Improvements to the gameplay are mainly focusing on the land value:
- Land value will be affected by ground pollution. The ground pollution will first slowly reduce the land value increasing, and when the pollution gets worse it will start to decrease the land value
- Land value won't decrease to 0 even with heavily polluted land
- Land value will increase according to industrial company's profitability value
Land value is likely to receive more love in future updates, but more on that in the future.
On top of these, we’ve also improved the search for parking spaces. Anyone who is driving a car in a bigger city knows how tricky it can be!

Some balancing work went into the Incinerator Plant as building the Extra Incinerator Furnace upgrade would cause it to produce less electricity, the opposite of what the effect should be, and little tweaks were introduced to the resources to avoid traffic jams at the cargo stations. Then there was the appropriate care put into the youth as the teens and children required balancing for their spawn rates and now more teens are entering the High School to get educated. Think about the children, they say!

No patch without some focus on the performance. This time we’ve optimized shadow culling, pathfind scheduling (especially visible as faster and more stable simulation speed in very large cities), added cooldown to avoid too many queries on citizens seeking education when the city doesn’t have enough schools, and reordered some rendering related systems to reduce waiting in the main thread.

Last but not least, the patch fixes issues in the statistics panel, multiple cases of random crashes (crash to desktop when selecting "moving in" household, after modifying roads with citizen group at specific state, and when modifying road with pedestrian path connected in a specific way, to name a few) as well as added some missing text and translations.

The devs at Colossal Order are fully focusing on improving Cities: Skylines II further after patch 1.0.19 is out. Actions speak louder than words so we’ll pause these weekly posts and be back when we cover the content of the next patch/release for the game. Keep following our social channels for the latest updates and have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina
 
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Hello, thanks for the further information about next patch.

Any information about this bug:

The fill / cut tool is very powerful but the fake shadow and the fact that if you get too close you see strange things, make it a nightmare to do and a thing to avoid.
 
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Thank you Mariina for the Update! :)
I just enjoyed some hours back in the game last weekend and performance got way better already.

Looking forward to upcoming patches and new content but fully understand that with that big range of different pcs out there, it's no wonder it isn't always working 100% out of the box.

What I always wanted to address about the a few people posting here and what I don't understand - yes CO didn't meet the goals they set and everybody paid for a game, but you got something for lifetime at it's being worked on, so what's the difference to pay XX euros or dollars and see how the game develops, as we're receiving so many free updates also for the base game in the future without charging any additional fees.
I somehow don't get the point, it's not like in year 2000 when you bought a game for 30 € on a CD and then nothing happened afterwards.
In the year 2000 you would purchase a finished, working product that wouldn't need any work done afterwards.

In the year 2024 you purchase an unfinished product and the 'free updates' are fixing it to the state it should have been released in.
 
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In the year 2000 you would purchase a finished, working product that wouldn't need any work done afterwards.

In the year 2024 you purchase an unfinished product and the 'free updates' are fixing it to the state it should have been released in.
Yeah, and I only buy a few games (maybe as little as one a year these days) and thought it was a pretty safe buy.
Think I'll check out the DLC I got and probably never look back. What a shame.
 
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There are some people in this comments section criticizing the pause in WotW posts, but guys, this is what the community wants including me. They didn't say "we are abandoning WotW completely", they said "we will come back when we have something to show". Were you really happy to read updates that weren't updating anything and just saying "we are working on it"? This is healthier.
 
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Thanks for the update, looking forward to the patches. :)

Just not sure what I should think about the less frequent patches for the game. On one hand I understand your viewpoint, but on the other hand it feels somewhat annoying as a player, even though I enjoy the game despite it's current flaws.

Curious to see what free updates you have in store for the future, really enjoyed them besides the Dlcs in CS1, especially the ones near it's official end of live, that did the game well in my opinion.


Pausing the WoW is something I would say is probably the right move, because it otherwise would force you guys to say something, when there is nothing new to say...and how that ended everyone could see last week.

So yeah, focus on the game and when there is something major/specific, then write an "update word" or something, no issue there.
 
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From what I can tell, it seems CO is pausing CO of the Week for next week and after, until the new patch is released. And then, 1 more CO of the Week, before pausing again until the next public modding beta patch lands in February.
 
I'm putting this here and will add to it as I have time.
The main takeaway I have is that it seems you are paywalling bug fixes within DLCs, unless you miraculously fix all the gameplay bugs prior to DLC release.
CS1 had CONTENT and GAMEPLAY improvements released in it's DLCs, and this is not a comparable situation.
 
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I'm putting this here and will add to it as I have time.
The main takeaway I have is that it seems you are paywalling bug fixes within DLCs, unless you miraculously fix all the gameplay bugs prior to DLC release.
CS1 had CONTENT and GAMEPLAY improvements released in it's DLCs, and this is not a comparable situation.
That's not true. How did you read into this?

They are going to include bug fixes regardless if the patch is a free patch update or if the upcoming patch has some DLCs added to them. DLC is more of a "side content that will be included alongside bugfixes". In short, bugfixes are the main content, DLCs are side contents.
 
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Thank you Mariina for the Update! :)
I just enjoyed some hours back in the game last weekend and performance got way better already.

Looking forward to upcoming patches and new content but fully understand that with that big range of different pcs out there, it's no wonder it isn't always working 100% out of the box.

What I always wanted to address about the a few people posting here and what I don't understand - yes CO didn't meet the goals they set and everybody paid for a game, but you got something for lifetime at it's being worked on, so what's the difference to pay XX euros or dollars and see how the game develops, as we're receiving so many free updates also for the base game in the future without charging any additional fees.
I somehow don't get the point, it's not like in year 2000 when you bought a game for 30 € on a CD and then nothing happened afterwards.
I should be mad, I paid $98 and forgot to have steam deduct my credit lol. I'm not though. I bounce between CS 1 and 2. Plus I haven't replaced my Ryzen 1800x and 1080ti. I'm a major procrastinator. When I load CS II, I swear I could hear, my desktop say" you've got to be kidding!!!" I was on it this past weekend and is better.

I'm dying for the beach dlc and drawbridges. I've missed drawbridges since the very first Simcity :)
 
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There are some people in this comments section criticizing the pause in WotW posts, but guys, this is what the community wants including me. They didn't say "we are abandoning WotW completely", they said "we will come back when we have something to show". Were you really happy to read updates that weren't updating anything and just saying "we are working on it"? This is healthier.
I absolutely agree with this statement. However, it would be nice before they closed WOTW to have a roadmap (which was promised), or dates of when the patch will release or just about anything that might makes me hopeful they are willing to rebuild trust in the community. There is so many questions left unanswered that it could fit one WOTW on its own. Answering our question such as:
1. Actual transparency in how did modding tools go so wrong that it went from shortly after to a year.
2. Coming Soon Creator Packs that still hasn't released - why the discrepancy between announcement trailer and release?
3. The conversations between CO and Paradox post release - how did it go so wrong?
4. What is the roadmap and future of CS2 other than "coming soon", and why is it when it is going to be released, will there be no timeline for it as well?
5. Why focus on the DLCs when the game is in a bad state at the moment?
6. Refunds or future free DLC - will CO do this to help rebuild trust at the extent of their profit margins?
7. Will CO continue to publish free patches to fix the bugs, not lock them behind paid DLCs, if this is the profit road they want to go to?

These will help a long way in bridging the gap between CO and the community. Alternatively, instead of WOTWs, have fortnightly Q&As with the community re the development of CS2 so we can better understand CO actions. Do something to help us out and help us understand the developers' actions during and post release, because from my perspective it’s been mind boggling and infuriating at the very least.

Actions do speak louder than words, and the actions of CO suggests that have little interest in doing the things they said they wanted to do bar the bare minimum, and tone deaf to anyone other than people who praise the game. Which is deeply disappointing and saddening for me as someone who loved CS1 and CS2 for what it was promoted as.
 
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So we are working to improve the quality of Cities: Skylines II, just like we did with the first game, and this includes both improvements to the base as well as creating new content as paid DLC. We worked at a fast pace after the release last October to get as many fixes in as we could. Patching the game so often does take resources in itself so we opted out for a less frequent pace to focus on bigger additions and more impactful updates in the future. Therefore the upcoming patch 1.0.19 is the last “stand-alone” bug fixing patch for now. Next time the bug fixes will be joined by the first of the modding support for the game, albeit it will not be the final version but a public beta one as mentioned last week.

Help me here if i get this correctly.
You're saying that you start now to adding features that you will release with a PAID DLC??
And you are stoping frequent updates with bugfixes?

Am i getting this correct? So you are telling us that the game is playable and your focusing on DLCs??
 
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I suggest the creation of a collective bug database that summarises reported bugs, their status, and overall progress to prevent duplication of reporting or confusion about whether certain features are intended or not. I believe that eventually, the community will create such a database, just as they did with C:S1 broken mods. It could even be an improved version of the existing forum. Regardless of the platform, it would be helpful to have a centralised location to track bug fixes and progress.
 
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Hi Everyone! Let’s talk about the patching process and upcoming patch landing soon for Cities: Skylines II.

Generally speaking, patching the game is something we usually try to combine with upcoming releases, and only work on solely bug fixing patches if we don’t have a suitable release we can wait for. Or the fix is critical to release as fast as possible - a so-called hotfix patch. You may remember the free updates associated with the DLC releases in Cities: Skylines and in the long term that is the goal with the sequel as well. It’s a good way to sneak in some cool features and improvements to all the players, beefing up the base game, and making certain features part of it while the paid content expands on those new features allowing us to continue developing the game forward. One of the first examples of this approach was After Dark where the free update added the day and night cycle to all players and the DLC itself had specific content and features for the nightlife.

So we are working to improve the quality of Cities: Skylines II, just like we did with the first game, and this includes both improvements to the base as well as creating new content as paid DLC. We worked at a fast pace after the release last October to get as many fixes in as we could. Patching the game so often does take resources in itself so we opted out for a less frequent pace to focus on bigger additions and more impactful updates in the future. Therefore the upcoming patch 1.0.19 is the last “stand-alone” bug fixing patch for now. Next time the bug fixes will be joined by the first of the modding support for the game, albeit it will not be the final version but a public beta one as mentioned last week.

We’re working on a wide variety of fixes and improvements on top of the missing modding support and platforms. We have a list of reported issues from both you, QA, and the team here at Colossal Order. These issues are sorted based on the level of their severity and the time it takes to implement them so that we can churn out as many improvements to the game as possible with the time and resources we have available.

In practice, the patching process starts with the build version being locked so that no more changes are committed to it by the devs. The build goes through at least one QA round, where the listed issues are verified as either fixed or still occurring. Any new issues with the build are reported as well. Any outstanding issues are fixed and the new locked build version goes to QA. This step usually takes less than a week but can take longer depending on issues found and how quickly those are fixed. After the devs are happy with the build version it's sent to the publisher for their checks, including submissions to each platform and setting the patch ready to go live for the public. This can take a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the size and content of the patch. The release is always aimed so that it wouldn’t be right before the weekend, just to make sure that if any issues occur on the public release there is a team available to check it out. In the meantime, the devs are working on the game toward the next release whether it be fixes, improvements, or new content.

Patch 1.0.19 will include a collection of fixes for issues we’ve discovered internally or have been reported to us by you. Thank you again for all the reports, it’s much appreciated! Full patch notes will be available when the patch is released, but here’s a little summary of the things we’ve been working on.

Improvements to the gameplay are mainly focusing on the land value:
- Land value will be affected by ground pollution. The ground pollution will first slowly reduce the land value increasing, and when the pollution gets worse it will start to decrease the land value
- Land value won't decrease to 0 even with heavily polluted land
- Land value will increase according to industrial company's profitability value
Land value is likely to receive more love in future updates, but more on that in the future.
On top of these, we’ve also improved the search for parking spaces. Anyone who is driving a car in a bigger city knows how tricky it can be!

Some balancing work went into the Incinerator Plant as building the Extra Incinerator Furnace upgrade would cause it to produce less electricity, the opposite of what the effect should be, and little tweaks were introduced to the resources to avoid traffic jams at the cargo stations. Then there was the appropriate care put into the youth as the teens and children required balancing for their spawn rates and now more teens are entering the High School to get educated. Think about the children, they say!

No patch without some focus on the performance. This time we’ve optimized shadow culling, pathfind scheduling (especially visible as faster and more stable simulation speed in very large cities), added cooldown to avoid too many queries on citizens seeking education when the city doesn’t have enough schools, and reordered some rendering related systems to reduce waiting in the main thread.

Last but not least, the patch fixes issues in the statistics panel, multiple cases of random crashes (crash to desktop when selecting "moving in" household, after modifying roads with citizen group at specific state, and when modifying road with pedestrian path connected in a specific way, to name a few) as well as added some missing text and translations.

The devs at Colossal Order are fully focusing on improving Cities: Skylines II further after patch 1.0.19 is out. Actions speak louder than words so we’ll pause these weekly posts and be back when we cover the content of the next patch/release for the game. Keep following our social channels for the latest updates and have a lovely week!

Sincerely,
Mariina
Awesome!
 
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You may remember the free updates associated with the DLC releases in Cities: Skylines and in the long term that is the goal with the sequel as well.
We appreciate your interest in providing us with new features. There's certainly no comparison. The original CS was playable despite some bugs, and we had the modding community, which fixed many of the issues you did not address and provided us with features you didn't include. However, CS 2 is plagued with bugs that make the simulation and performance unplayable (and we won't have mods for at least one year). Therefore, more regular patches delivered outside of a content release or pack are definitely needed here.
Patching the game so often does take resources in itself so we opted out for a less frequent pace to focus on bigger additions and more impactful updates in the future.
[...] "takes resources"? When you mention "takes resources," didn't we already pay for an acceptable functional game (which we did not receive), and now you're complaining that it takes resources to fix it?
In practice, the patching process starts with the build version being locked so that no more changes are committed to it by the devs. The build goes through at least one QA round, where the listed issues are verified as either fixed or still occurring. Any new issues with the build are reported as well. Any outstanding issues are fixed and the new locked build version goes to QA. This step usually takes less than a week but can take longer depending on issues found and how quickly those are fixed. After the devs are happy with the build version it's sent to the publisher for their checks, including submissions to each platform and setting the patch ready to go live for the public. This can take a couple of days to a few weeks depending on the size and content of the patch. The release is always aimed so that it wouldn’t be right before the weekend, just to make sure that if any issues occur on the public release there is a team available to check it out. In the meantime, the devs are working on the game toward the next release whether it be fixes, improvements, or new content.
It seems like this was also the process you followed before releasing the game. It further proves that you knowingly released it in a state where it wasn't working properly. You knew it in advance but you released it anyway.
The devs at Colossal Order are fully focusing on improving Cities: Skylines II further after patch 1.0.19 is out. Actions speak louder than words so we’ll pause these weekly posts and be back when we cover the content of the next patch/release for the game. Keep following our social channels for the latest updates and have a lovely week!
You're speaking more than you're acting. I'm sure you're aware of how poorly the last WOW release was received (26 pages of disagreement comments plus 129 disagreement reactions).

Are you going to follow through with your threat of reducing communication with players? We don't want you to stop communicating with us; we want honesty and the information we need when you do communicate.

Last but not least, discussing paid content now is definitely not prudent.
 
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That's not true. How did you read into this?

They are going to include bug fixes regardless if the patch is a free patch update or if the upcoming patch has some DLCs added to them. DLC is more of a "side content that will be included alongside bugfixes". In short, bugfixes are the main content, DLCs are side contents.
They said this is the last stand-alone bugfixing patch, and they are addressing only a few of the hundreds of bugs in this one.
They stated that bugfixes will be included in future DLC, meaning if you don't buy the DLC, you don't get a bugfix.
Bugfixes should be standalone, in order to fix the brokenness of the game, not locked behind paid DLC content and DLC release schedules... how many of these bugs are going to be waiting til Q3 or Q4 this year to resolve?

The big one is office and industry taxes completely breaking the economic simulation of the game - which they broke with the last patch and are apparently not addressing.
 
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They said this is the last stand-alone bugfixing patch, and they are addressing only a few of the hundreds of bugs in this one.
They stated that bugfixes will be included in future DLC, meaning if you don't buy the DLC, you don't get a bugfix.
Bugfixes should be standalone, in order to fix the brokenness of the game, not locked behind paid DLC content and DLC release schedules... how many of these bugs are going to be waiting til Q3 or Q4 this year to resolve?

The big one is office and industry taxes completely breaking the economic simulation of the game - which they broke with the last patch and are apparently not addressing.

No no no, honestly I feel pretty deflated but I'll even take this one on.
They bugfix and even add functionality to the base game with DLC -- that's what they did with CS 1 anyway.
I know, the game is broken, but that's the track record anyway.
 
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I suggest the creation of a collective bug database that summarises reported bugs, their status, and overall progress to prevent duplication of reporting or confusion about whether certain features are intended or not. I believe that eventually, the community will create such a database, just as they did with C:S1 broken mods. It could even be an improved version of the existing forum. Regardless of the platform, it would be helpful to have a centralised location to track bug fixes and progress.
@co_martsu Could you create a trello board?
 
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Hello @co_martsu,

thank you for the insight into your patching process. I appreciate the list of things you have worked on for patch 1.19, and I think that the patch will reduce some of the problems I face while playing the game. I am sure CO is trying to make Cities: Skylines 2 as good as possible.

However, I disagree with your decision to release patches alongside major releases like the Modding Tools or DLC — at least in the current state of the game. Performance is still pretty bad even on high-end hardware. The simulation speed is still abysmal in bigger cities. Many simulation systems still feel half-baked and need improvement. With this in mind, I'd hope that fixing the game is your highest priority. Of course, releasing patches alongside DLC will reduce your workload, but I just don't think that CS2 is mature enough yet to go there.

Also, discontinuing WotW is pretty disappointing. Even if you won't have many things to say, at least a live sign telling us what things are currently being worked on (without timeline) would be appreciated.

As a fan of CO and your old games, I currently am feeling somewhat lost. Cities: Skylines 2 has so much potential, but so little of it has been realized, and with every week that goes by I have less confidence it ever will. Maybe my expectations were too high.

I hope CO can meet those expectations eventually. I wish you all the best.
Sincerely,
Anton

They stated that bugfixes will be included in future DLC, meaning if you don't buy the DLC, you don't get a bugfix.

That is not correct. As with Cities: Skylines 1 patches will be released for free alongside paid DLC.
 
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Are you going to follow through with the threat of reducing communication with players? We don't want you to stop communicating with us; we want honesty and the information we need when you do communicate.
I think the action of not answering our questions and not doing anymore communication says what CO thinks about that threat.

As the CEO says, Actions speak louder than words
 
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