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Dev Diary #144 - Legends and Lesions

Hello everybody! Welcome to this Developer Diary explaining the creative vision behind Crusader Kings III’s first Core Expansion: Legends of the Dead, courtesy of one of our talented game designers (and resident historian on medieval plagues!)





In the year of the lord 1346 the Crimean port of Caffa was being besieged by the Golden Horde. The contemporary Italian notary de Mussis writes down that diseased corpses were thrown over its walls and thus, the Black Plague entered Europe. That same year, Edward III of England defeated the forces of king Philip VI of France in Crecy. Two years later, Edward would try to create the Order of the Round Table, inspired by the heroic deeds of King Arthur, and later transformed into the Order of the Garter.

As our Game Director already mentioned in last week's Chapter III overview, we're exploring a new type of expansion focusing on systems that affect the whole map, rather than just adding flavor to a specific region. We didn’t have a name for it at the beginning, but we knew we wanted to do something bigger with the time we had, while planning the next Major Expansion.

We've been wanting to cover Plagues since approximately the 12th of January 2021. We still have the early designs stored somewhere, but we put that aside for a while in order to develop the huge endeavor that was Tours & Tournaments. However, the team stayed highly passionate about plagues throughout the entire time (as many of us have fond memories of The Reaper's Due), and we knew it was something that we wanted to tackle again.

Soon after the release of Tours & Tournaments it became apparent that it was the moment to pick up plagues again, but that presented its own challenges, among them a very important one - how to make this distinct from its Crusader Kings II version?

We were also very aware of the circumstances of the world, so we decided it was important to have some hope spreading across the map as well.

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When researching the way medieval people saw plagues, we noticed that on many occasions they moved towards blaming the monarchs; If they're a representative of divine power on earth, and God is punishing us, then it must be because the representative is doing a bad job, right? That made us think of the impact that would have on a ruler's Legitimacy... and then we started thinking about Legitimacy itself.

Sure, we already had Prestige in the game, but that felt like a representation of what you've done and how you present yourself, rather than "are you fit to rule?", "do people believe in you?", "are you really the right person for this?" Legitimacy was born as a way to represent these questions within the game, which raised the question: how do you prove your rule is legitimate?

Soon, we thought of the medieval royal genealogies, tracing back the lineages to Trojan heroes, Charlemagne, mythological kings and even gods. Proving that you're the descendant of Aeneas is the easiest way to say, "I am the right person to rule."

"To be noble," the medieval historian George Duby notes, "is to be able to refer to a genealogy."

This, obviously, led us to Legends, and legends certainly did spread during the Middle Ages. King Arthur and his knights became so popular that they soon received translations and new material in French, German, Spanish and Italian. Legends got out of control, changed and expanded through the centuries, creating new stories that had little to do with their original purpose.

In Legends of the Dead, we unite the brightest and darkest moments of humanity - tales of greatness illuminating a devastated land. Desolation and despair, but also the hope that comes after.

Plagues will ravage your realm, causing development to plummet, and kill characters indiscriminately, for Death knows no master. In addition to our existing diseases, you'll be able to suffer from Holy Fire, Bloody Flux, and Measles. Holy Fire was the medieval name for ergotism, while outbreaks of dysentery (frequently occurring in the wake of passing armies) were known as Bloody Flux. Measles in particular is a danger to infants, and could be a dynasty killer if players aren't careful.

We’ll cover these in more detail when we talk about Plagues in a later Dev Diary, however.

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[Image: A Consumption outbreak follows the coast of the English Channel]

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[Image: New (and full body!) graphics for measles]

Legends will allow you to write down the heroic deeds of your ancestors or sing about your own glory. Cover the map in the stories that you create, gaining powerful control and skill boosts, among other effects.

It’s not just the likes of Hercules who get their own legends, however; being a faithful devotee can also spawn legendary tales of martyrdom and sacrifice. And, of course, you'll be able to trace your Legend back to the most legitimate monarchs of the past. Spreading a Legend (and increasing its quality) will give you unique rewards, such as special Decisions or new Buildings. In such a highly systemic expansion with both Plagues and Legitimacy, Legends also allow for some nice historical flavor and roleplay elements.

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[Image: The Custody of the Holy Site legend spreads over Galicia]

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[Image: A Legendary Statue built to commemorate a hero's legend]

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[Image: A legend turned into an artifact]



We will touch more on Legends and Legitimacy and how they work in-game next week, in addition to a deep dive into the heroic (and sometimes grimy) art created for this expansion! And worry not, Plagues - the most famous of them all in particular - will receive some more attention soon after.
 
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Sorry if this has already been said (didn't read all posts), but I hope Legitimacy is linked to individual titles and claims. Vassals would take into account the legitimacy of the claimant vs the legitimacy of the title holder when considering to join claimant factions (in addition to relationship and other more opportunistic arguments of course). This could also nicely blend with traits: a Just vassal would be more likely to join a claimant with a higher legitimacy claim than the title legitimacy

Legitimacy of claims could potentially also replace the 'pressed' vs 'unpressed' claims system, which in my opinion is a bit simplistic. Legitimacy on claims could be lost on inheritance, just like a pressed claim would turn into an unpressed one in the current system.
 
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Now you play as the younger heir, dogged by really low legitimacy, with a brother running around with more legitimacy than you, who is just waiting for a faction to put him back on top.

Would it be a problem for the player? He would still get all the titles, just with a different son.
 
I hope Legitimacy will specifically play a big role in this scenario. For example (fictitious numbers):

You have 80 out of 100 legitimacy. You then decide to disinherit your primary heir for whatever reason and die.

Normally, your heir would start with 0.5 of your legitimacy, on this case 40.

But in this case, your disinherited son gets that 40 while the younger son gets half that, 20.

Now you play as the younger heir, dogged by really low legitimacy, with a brother running around with more legitimacy than you, who is just waiting for a faction to put him back on top.

Now that is far more interesting gameplay and narrative. But this relies on factions being able to be more nuanced than just "here is a group of people who dislike you and randomly picked a faction type to join".
I really want something along the lines of inherichance mod implemented in the base game and legitimacy would play an important role

But as others stated out legitimacy should really be implemented on the title level and not character level
 
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Speaking of Inherichance…is it working??
I played a mp campaign with a few mates and it was fun
Obviously it has it quirks but it has potential to be better with unlanded play and it would definitely be more suitable implemented in the game itself since there are restrictions for inheriting man at arms and artifacts since they mostly have to go to the primary title heir. I haven't played CK3 in a while and haven't tried Inherichance with Tours and Tournaments but considering accolades are broken in vanilla I can only imagine the mess that happens with Inherichance
 
While we're on the subject, "Pure-Blooded" should not be a positive trait, at least outside of prestige gain. Generations of inbreeding does not result in the ultimate lifeform, it results in a bald, lame, sterile, seizure-prone abomination, who is so inbred that it can't even close its mouth.
Rule of fun vs rule of reality
 
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Thank you. Yes if you are successful you tend to snowball, guess what, thats happening in every GSG. Once we pass a certain threshold there is no going back.
What do this nerfers wish to accomplish? Especially where to put a nerf.
I don't want global nerfs and tbh once I've managed to create my Empire I don't want to loose it all the time. I had that In I:R, I never got to the point where rome was really the roman territory in our time because it collapsed all the time. I don't want that.
It's also accurate to life. A successful monarch would enjoy a great deal of real life "snowballing" if you will.
I love this game and I appreciate the devs working on this title, but it still has some edges and one of them is how effortless it can feel to play if you're not an absolute beginner.

I don't see why we would have to play ahistorically to create difficult scenarios. If I want a historical start and "play tall" in say Bohemia, I should still face challenges that the duchy would historically face like dynamic political dilemmas. Being a ruler in the past was not a breeze.

Why does winning one tournament net us equipment to almost guarantee victory in future tournaments for both my character and my bookish descendants? Something must be made to limit the way artefacts give us bonuses regardless of the characteristics of the characters we play.

Why does it not take more than like two pilgrimages to be the next saint? Like why don't I have to live a pious life to generate piety? My devilish impaler has more piety than any other man in the near vicinity.

Why is it enough to attend hunts and feasts to generate enough prestige to be famous and respected globally? I feel like it's just too easy to get these resources regardless of what I do. It's like I'm failing upwards.

Being a King with Royal Court is easy mode if anything because of how relatively cheap grandeur is to gain. It's almost trivial to get it as a smaller kingdom.

Dynasty perks mean that all my descendants benefit from my accomplishments regardless of who they are. Which is like foolproof.

Late game everyone is... perfect. Everyone marries everyone regardless of inheritance outlook. Getting allies to fight battles for you miles away from their holdings is almost guaranteed. No one challenges my rule when my army is away. My unlanded courtiers always support me unless they're involved in an assassination plot. History is drama, but the drama rarely happens at home as much as it appears to have done historically. I think that's a shame.

Do we really disagree that a game that doesn't challenge your rule in even an immersive way is kinda dull after a while?

To be clear I'm no beginner, I've got over 2000 hours in CK II and III.

Even when I'm playing a more "normal" playthrough, the game is not some wild easy mode, no matter how loudly folks might attempt to proclaim it otherwise.

I CHOSE to play ahistorically, because as I said that is fun for me, and I mentioned that it was BRUTAL, not challenging or normal, or whatever. I was not saying that my chosen playstyle was the solution, I was only demonstrating why it was more difficult than a normal game. A normal game is, again, still not easy mode by any means.

/shrug

And you can lose a tournament even with better stats and gear than your opponents, because RNG exists. I've had a character with the best prowess and martial by MILES, and way better gear... still lose. So congrats, you've gotten lucky, but nothing more. Late game no one is perfect, and all the conflicts still exist, rofl. And your rule is constantly challenged. Are you playing with mods or something?

I've gone on 8 pilgrimages with a single ruler and he was never sainted. His piety was middling, at best, hilariously, despite his best efforts.

Honestly it sounds to me like you're doing absolutely nothing that would SPEND your piety or your prestige, and it sounds (assuming from limited context) like your domain was small. Or you're playing on easy. I don't know, but it sounds that way. In any playstyle I've done, and I have done a LOT, resources are perpetually a struggle, maintaining my domain is a struggle even once I get rid of gavelkind because after gavelkind its the damn infighting and wars and backstabbing. Dynasty perks take generations to get. Courts are expensive to maintain so you have to hope to get grandeur through other means. ETc.

It really does sound like you're playing on easy and then complaining that its easy, my friend. Honestly. Because I've played rulers in every region, I've played every religion group, and I've played every culture group....... and they've all got unique challenges. A few are definitely easier or harder than others, but even the easiest ones aren't the cake walk you're trying to portray.
 
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I really hope it would not be "indiscriminately" but a result of some of the player's decisions.

To expand on this: random death is not really fun except for meme purposes. In strategy game, if there is some danger included, there should be available measures to conquer that danger, one way or another. And obviously it should have a cost: be it money to invest into hygiene, hospitals and medics or ability to close the door and hide in seclusion with a cost to your legitimacy and diplomatic ability.
 
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