No, it was the same culture and language of the Roman Empire, the culture and language never seized to exist under Roman rule, and just got more important with the ages.
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I have a dream that one day, people will contend with arguments instead of launching tautologies at one another. In all honesty I do not see how this relates to my point, but your assertion is obviously true.
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about the perception of how they want to see history, is really that simple, people would get used to it and view that this was really the correct way to naming conventions
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No? People in the east spoke Greek during the reign of Octavian, Trajan, Constantine and so on... Roman Empire wasn't "Latin speaking people from the city of Rome" only. Just because they spoke Greek didn't mean they were not Roman citizens.
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Are you implying that the Europa Universalis "fandom" is numerically powerful enough to change the very way we refer to certain historical polities? I disagree, both with the intent and the fact itself - the names of tags should reflect what they are called (whether in common or academic parlance, though I lean towards the latter).
I don't have an issue with "activism" in video games, so to speak, but let's not operate under the delusion that people will start referring to for example Vijayanagar with their "proper" endonym just because it has that name in EU. And using an endonym to refer to a polity is not necessarily always good, anyway.
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the eu fanbase is really vocal, they are everywhere in hsitory groups, youtube, showing them new names to them i would really think that would increase our curiosity about these new names and why they are there
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Fine. Even if we assume this is the case, it does not answer arguably the most important question - is it better to use an endonym over an exonym in all cases?
I would say no. Primarily, exonyms are superior where the point is understanding and not accuracy. Calling the Mughals Hindustan is accurate, but confusing. At quick glance one will have to wonder which historical polity it is referring to specifically.
But even beyond the gameplay argument, yes, endonyms would be ideal where the exonym is racist, or misrepresented, for example. Similarly where there is a genuine organic want (by the people to whom the exonym is given) to use the endonym instead, be it due to anti-colonial or nationalist reasons, that is also fine. But in other cases, you end up just doing something for no reason - and that may indeed come off as insensitive or condescending.
Overall, using endonyms as a rule is:
- difficult to do, because not all polities leave proper sources;
- jarring, since many polities are primarily, and sometimes exclusively, referred to by their exonym;
- confusing, because multiple polities that exist at the same time may take the same endonym, and one must be prioritized;
- above all needless, since no one asked for it in the first place.
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That is not how Italian sources of the time seem to frame it according to what I know. The reaction seemed to be of surprise, since Justinian changed the meaning of the Odoacer conquest of Rome. Before Justinian it was understood that when Rome fell the Empire was unified under the East, since that is how Odoacer himself framed it. But then Justinian came and said to the Romans that no, that West Rome had in fact fallen in 473 and he was claiming it back. If you try to go back to sources of the time the first mentions of Western Rome falling in 473 are from Justinian's time, in order to justify his expansionist policy. Sources from Odoacer's time frame him qs a liberator, hero and unifier.
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"doing something for no reason", you gave the reasons in the same paragraph. Multiple polities with the same name are very rare to happen at the same time. The only time I remember this happening with two states was with the name Sicilia (Trinacria) and Sicilia (Naples) existing at the same time, but Naples was more french, so they used more Sicile.
EDIT: And maybe i can make a strech that that the claimants of the byzantine empire after the 4th crusade would calling themselves as the same entity, instead of being Trebizond, Nicaea and Epirus
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Many things happened when Byzantion became Constantinople besides the renaming of hte city... building projects and all.
Regardless, i don't think the thousands of colonists had much impact on the population of a city with a total population between 300k and 400k.
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I never said endonyms should not be used where they are commonly done in academia or general speech. Go back and read what I said - using endonyms !!!!!!!!!as a rule!!!!!!!!!
If it has been the direction of academics to call a certain polity by its endonym, EUV should absolutely bow down to that. Again of primary importance is recognizability - when I see a tag in EUIV I want two pieces of information from it: (a) what is the historical polity that it represents, and (b) what tag-specific mechanics does it have?
Your plan, while fine for (b), will fail most times for (a). And then of course there is the issue of translation. Which word in Sanskrit for example corresponds to "empire"? Which one corresponds to "kingdom"? I would much rather these decisions be made by those in academia, and not by a studio known for developing historical video games.
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You are complicating things, its really simple, if there is none, just use the best one, most of the times is always the simple solution, there is a reason why some of these names are easily recognizable, because they have been there since EU1 and other games
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Yes and I am saying "the best one" is almost always the exonym because it is the most recognizable. And it is obviously not very simple, or we would not have pages and pages of arguments about it.
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Is anyone else extremely concerned by the fact that this person wrote this sentence without seemingly even a hint of irony?
Like, I can understand nationalists because they want to promote what they perceive to be the good of their very real, very contemporary and existing states.
What is this exactly? Roman larping gone completely out of control?
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Interestingly, there's a lesser-known aspect of musical history regarding the interaction between Turks and the Eastern Roman Empire. Often, listeners attribute certain musical styles to Arabic influence, but in truth, they have deeper roots in the Eastern Roman Empire tradition.
EU4 used Byzantium last time I checked, not Byzantine Empire as we have seen in the project Caesar screenshots. I would still like to get confirmation if this has now been changed to Byzantium as Johan's announcement may indicate.
I don't care what the origin is or isn't, just as I don't care what the origin of Ethiopia may or may not be.
Which is why the name shouldn't be Byzantium, but the Byzantine Empire...
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Byzantium is more reffered to the remnants, some cities including capital, 'cause in 1444 you were unable to actually call it an Empire
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no this is how it comes off to me too when the people arguing on behalf of the Roman Empire label talk about Byzantine being a "slur" and needing to "correct myths delegitimizing Roman rule" or whatever
Like why do you care so much about making them look good?
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