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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #112 - Political Lobbies

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary! Today’s topic will be Political Lobbies, which is a new feature added in the Sphere of Influence expansion with some elements made available for free in the 1.7 update.

So, what is a Political Lobby? Put simply, a Political Lobby is a collection of Interest Groups pushing for the implementation of a specific foreign policy agenda in their country. Superficially, this may appear quite similar to Political Parties, but there a couple key differences in how they function:
  • Political Lobbies always form for a specific reason, often due to a Diplomatic Catalyst (more on those and the precise conditions for how they can create lobbies in next week’s dev diary) and pursue a specific long-term agenda that does not change over time
  • Interest Groups can be members of multiple Lobbies, so long as those Lobbies do not have directly contradictory goals

The agenda of a Political Lobby is always in relation to a specific foreign power, and there are four types of Political Lobbies being added in 1.7/Sphere of Influence:
  • Pro-Country Lobby: This Political Lobby seeks to promote and advance the interests of their target country, both in relation to their home country and in a more global sense
  • Anti-Country Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Country Lobby, this Lobby seeks to hinder the interests of their target country and ‘take it down a peg’ whenever possible
  • Pro-Overlord Lobby: A Pro-Overlord Lobby can only form in a subject country, and will always target the overlord. It seeks to promote loyalty towards and closer integration with the overlord.
  • Anti-Overlord Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Overlord lobby, this lobby is also only for subject countries and wants to become less dependent on the overlord, and ideally secure independence for their home country if the opportunity arises.

Interest Groups can join Political Lobbies for a variety of reasons, such as ideological alignment with or opposition to the country they target, or in pursuit of an overarching goal, such as the Industrialists joining a Pro-Country Lobby for a wealthier, more advanced country in the hopes of securing foreign investment capital.

Lobbies have an Appeasement score, which goes up when you take actions that the Lobby feels aligns with their goals, and goes down when you take actions that they consider to be contrary to those goals. Appeasement acts as a modifier on the Approval of their constituent Interest Groups, which means that your foreign policy actions can now directly help or hinder your internal political goals.

For example, are those staunchly Anti-French Landowners doing the Landowner thing of blocking those voting rights you want enacted? Simple! Just declare your opposition to France in a Diplomatic Play and humiliate them, and the Landowners will be so busy celebrating their victory over the perfidious Gallics that they will graciously let you have this one little reform.

On the flipside, you might find that the very pro-British Industrialists are not at all pleased with your continued alliance to a British rival, and that your previous plan of working to strengthen them in order to enact Laissez-Faire has now backfired, as they refuse to work with you until you break said alliance, forcing you to choose which of your two goals is more important to you.

Anti-American sentiment is strong among the Armed Forces and Trade Unions of Mexico, and both have been appeased by declaring an embargo on American trade, though of course the Americans aren’t likely to be too pleased with this action…
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Lobbies, of course, do not only affect Interest Group approval but have direct diplomatic benefits or drawbacks depending, once again, on whether the actions you take align with their goals. How large these effects are depends on the combined Clout of the Interest Groups that are part of the Lobby.

For example, having a Pro-Country Lobby will make it easier to conduct diplomacy with that country, both by increasing their AI acceptance for proposals and by lowering the Influence cost of any friendly pacts you maintain with them, but increasing the cost of hostile actions (such as Embargos) and lowering the Influence you gain from rivaling them. As you might expect, Anti-Country Lobbies have the opposite effect, making friendly diplomacy harder and hostile actions cheaper. Anti and Pro-Overlord Lobbies also significantly influence Liberty Desire, as mentioned in the previous dev diary.

Lobbies also have a secondary effect on AI behavior, as an AI country with a Pro-Country lobby will be more likely to adopt a friendly attitude towards the target of said lobby, with the opposite effects for an Anti-Country Lobby, with the Clout of said lobbies once again determining how likely the AI is to fall in line with them. All of these effects, as well as the actual creation of Lobbies themselves, will be available to everyone as part of the free 1.7 update.

Although Russia’s government currently has a positive attitude towards Austria and wishes to pursue closer relations, the powerful Anti-Austrian Lobby in Russia makes it more difficult for them to agree to any proposed new Diplomatic Pacts
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For those with the Sphere of Influence expansion, Lobbies can also make their will known through an opportunity or a demand. Opportunities generally come in the form of some diplomatic groundwork done by the Lobby that may allow their parent country to sign a diplomatic pact that is otherwise difficult to get, or even out of reach entirely. For Pro-Country Lobbies this usually involves dealing with the target country directly, while Anti-Country Lobbies will instead work to create opportunities to cooperate with the target’s enemies and rivals. Opportunities can be declined without any penalty, and will only result in a loss of Appeasement if accepted but not followed through on. Accepting and following through on the Opportunity will of course increase their Appeasement.

Even though Great Britain is Cautious about France and thus not willing to sign a Trade Agreement under normal circumstances, the acceptance bonus granted by the opportunity created by the Pro-British Lobby should be enough to secure the deal
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Demands, conversely, is when a Lobby believes that the government isn’t doing enough to pursue their agenda and well, demands action. A demand generally comes in the form of a specific action that the Lobby wishes to see taken either against the target country, or against a country relevant to them (for example, a rival or ally). A demand can be declined, but doing so will significantly decrease the Appeasement of the Lobby (though not as much as accepting the demand and then failing to follow through on it).

Feeling that the French government isn’t doing enough to foster closer ties with Britain, the pro-British Lobby demands a grand gesture of enmity with Britain’s Russian enemy
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Also available for those with the Sphere of Influence expansion is the new Fund Lobbies diplomatic action. This action works in a fairly similar way to Bankroll, in that it transfers money from the treasury of the initiating country, but instead of the money going to the target country’s treasury it is paid out among the target country’s Pops instead, with who gets what share of the money dependent on the target’s political setup and how much power sharing is going on - when trying to Fund Lobbies in an Autocratic country, nobody is going to bother spreading money around to poor laborers who have no say in politics whatsoever.

The precise effects of Fund Lobbies depends on whether a Pro-Country/Pro-Overlord lobby targeting the initiator already exists in the target country. If one does not exist, the money goes towards promoting the creation of such a lobby, with a weekly chance for this to happen. If such a lobby already exists, or once one is created, the pact switches to supporting that Lobby by increasing the Pop Attraction of Interest Groups that belong to the boosted lobby, which over time will increase the combined Clout of the Lobby’s Interest Groups, which in turn translates into greater mechanical effects and impact on AI decision-making.

Seeking to tighten its grip over their junior Personal Union partner, Sweden begins to spread some money around among the politically influential Norwegian Pops
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Finally, I want to wrap up this dev diary by talking a little bit about the moddability and extensibility of the Lobbies system. Besides the Pro and Anti Country Lobbies mentioned above, the system also comes with built-in support for ‘neutral’ Foreign lobbies that have a goal relating to another country which is neither directly friendly nor antagonistic, and even for Domestic lobbies that pursue an entirely internal agenda in the country they are created in. The entire system of forming, appeasing and applying mechanical effects from lobbies is completely moddable, and we definitely intend to use this system to create new and interesting types of lobbies in future updates!

That’s all for today! Since this one ended up pretty long, and we actually have a bunch of semi-related things to go over as well, we’ve decided to change the Dev Diary schedule so that next week’s dev diary will be about Diplomatic Catalysts and the Diplomatic AI. We also still want to talk more about Power Blocs, and will find a way to fit that in before release. See you then!
 
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Can this kind of funding for specific foreign lobbying groups be extended to funding any interest group or any political issue? This feature seems perfect for instigating revolutions and the like.
 
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In Update 1.7, all lobbies will be directed towards a specific country, not a general diplomatic stance. So a pro-France lobby would be upset if you went to war with France specifically, while an anti-France lobby would be pleased if you did. Lobbies that favor specific issues rather than countries is not an impossibility in the future, but for Update 1.7 and Sphere of Influence we wanted to focus on creating more dynamic interactions between countries specifically.
How does the game model that Rural Folk IGs are generally isolationist? Would they join every Pro-Country Lobby (weird outcome)? Or do they not care about war in general (also a weird outcome)?

Does war outcomes affect how IGs are affected by foreign policy? So the French Rural IG is mad if a war is lost but neutral if the war is won?
 
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It's somewhat disappointing how little possible lobbies there are at the moment. It's at least nice to know the system won't be DLC exclusive, and more lobbies might be added. Pro-unification lobbies, pro-ideology lobbies, pro-colonization lobby... etc. Like it's surprising to me there's nothing about pro-communist/anti-communist IG alliance.

Also a question, would a pro-[country] lobby transition into a loyalist lobby, if the country was subjugated by that country?
 
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My immediate question is whether you can have alignment with countries based on cultural or religious reasons?

Say one played as a theocratic Iran, could one have Shia across the region be more aligned with you via these lobbies? Or at least the Shia ulemma?
Or say Orthodox Slavs in Europe historically wanting alliance with Russia? (I suppose in line with some title of defender of the faith maybe?)

Such factors and considerations would be amazing.
 
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Will it be possible to fund a lobby that targets a third country?

Could Prussia fund an anti-Austrian lobby in Sardinia-Piedmont?
This would be very cool but also a bit of a UX and AI nightmare, so it's not happening for Sphere of Influence release at least. There's an idea to allow Fund Lobbies to also increase the chance that anti-lobbies for your rivals spawn in that country, but whether that would be a good idea in practice we'll have to see, so no promises.
 
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Like it's surprising to me there's nothing about pro-communist/anti-communist IG alliance.
Such ideological similarities / differences do impact which Interest Groups will form or join specific lobbies, so this is modelled in the system we're releasing with 1.7 already.
 
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There's an increasing negative weight modifier depending on how many lobbies already exist, to prevent too many lobbies from spawning just because an IG happens to potentially be friends with everyone.
Do Lobbies form in order of likelihood? So a American Industrialist IG would form both a pro-British and a pro-Germany Lobby but goes with the Pro-British Lobby first because there is more British foreign investment in the US and British industry is stronger (from a prestige POV???) than German industry.

What happens if a new Lobby with a stronger "score" could form but does not because there are too many Lobbies already in existence? Does the new Lobby never form or does the weakest existing Lobby disappear from existence?

For example, the American Industrialist IG has formed Pro-British and Pro-German Lobbies and could form a pro-Japan Lobby but is restricted by the negative weight modifier. A couple of years pass and suddenly the Pro-Japan Lobby has a stronger "score" than the Pro-German Lobby. Does the Pro-German Lobby disappear to be replaced by the Pro-Japan Lobby or does the Pro-Japan Lobby remain in non-existence?
 
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My immediate question is whether you can have alignment with countries based on cultural or religious reasons?

Say one played as a theocratic Iran, could one have Shia across the region be more aligned with you via these lobbies? Or at least the Shia ulemma?
Or say Orthodox Slavs in Europe historically wanting alliance with Russia? (I suppose in line with some title of defender of the faith maybe?)

Such factors and considerations would be amazing.
Yes, both religious and cultural compatibility factors are being taken into account.
 
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I like this mechanic and think it will tie domestic and international politics together in a way that adds a lot of depth to the game.

One omission from the Dev Diary is whether Lobbies will attempt to influence behaviour during Diplomatic Plays. For example, Germany starts a Diplomatic Play against Poland. As France, will the Polish Lobby in Paris send a Demand that France joins the Play on Poland's side? I hope so; in fact it should be a certainty if it's a War Goal that threatens the independence or integrity of Poland (e.g. Make Protectorate).

And that scenario really makes me wonder whether "Appeasement" is the best choice for describing the Lobbies' attitude in the English localization. This word has two common meanings (Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary):
  • the practice of giving a country what it wants in order to avoid war
  • the act of making somebody calmer or less angry by giving them what they want
The V3 mechanic exactly fits the second meaning. But it will often be the opposite of the first (and more common) meaning, which will be confusing to new players.

Let's go back to our example above. If I agree to the Demand of the Polish Lobby in Paris, and resist German aggression against Poland, then the game will describe this as increasing an Appeasement score. It does make logical sense, because I am appeasing the Polish Lobby in Paris, not Germany. But I think it's unnecessarily confusing. France isn't avoiding war; it's entering one, in contradiction to the primary meaning of "appeasement".

Even if Lobbies do not step into Diplomatic Plays, I still think the potential for confusion is there in English.

I guess that you wish to avoid two obvious terms for this ("Attitude" and "Approval") because they are already used (for Countries and IGs respectively). Perhaps "Satisfaction" or "Stance" would be a slightly better term?

Also, will there be custom(izable) names for particular Lobbies?
 
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This sounds really awesome. Love how lobbies can create more friction and challenge for the player both internationally AND domestically. And having them moddable from day 1 should open up lots of opportunities.

Can't wait to hear more about diplomatic AI next week too!
 
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It's somewhat disappointing how little possible lobbies there are at the moment. It's at least nice to know the system won't be DLC exclusive, and more lobbies might be added. Pro-unification lobbies, pro-ideology lobbies, pro-colonization lobby... etc. Like it's surprising to me there's nothing about pro-communist/anti-communist IG alliance.

Also a question, would a pro-[country] lobby transition into a loyalist lobby, if the country was subjugated by that country?
Pro-Anti Communist lobbies are almost entirely out of scope for the game and only become relevant in the last 10 percent of the historical period. Imo there's already too much focus for something that isn't relevant till the end of the game.
 
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Why is it that lobbies are supported by whole IGs at a time? I can't imagine every single French aristocrat in my country to love Britain... or every single PB to hate Spain? It just feels odd.
I don't think this is the right way to look at this. When the Industrialist IG supports France as part of a pro-France Lobby, it is just the preponderance of the leadership, the organization of all the pro-industrialist groups in the nation that support France. Individual Pops that are part of the Industrialist IG are free to have their own opinion and stances. There is some abstraction going on here but I think it is to an acceptable level.

Developers, you can correct me if I am getting something wrong here.
 
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Sad to see that political lobbies are more country specific, and not directed at government types.

Like as a capitalist nation, I was hoping for there to be a lobby that supports closer relations with other capitalist nations (i.e nations that have Laissez-Faire and Free Trade Economic laws), while favoring hostile attitude towards any communist nation (i.e nations that have Cooperative Ownership Economic law).

Or another example, pro-democracy lobbies in Democratic nations, opposing closer relations with nations that have authoritarian power structures.

I have one question regarding the current implementation of political lobbies. Can there be multiple country specific lobbies within the same country ? Like as a capitalist Germany you have an anti Communist France lobby, and Anti Communist Russia lobby.
What you're describing is more akin to how we're modeling Leverage of Power Blocs as modified by Lobbies. If there's a Laissez-Faire Trade League Bloc in the world, your Industrialists will be keen to form closer relations with the leader of said Bloc, and will use their Clout to improve the Leverage they gain on you. This will make you more likely to be dragged into that Bloc, which will cause friction between you and other Blocs.

There's room to implement more broad "policy" type Lobbies in the future, that aren't aligned towards a specific nation but nations which fit certain criteria, but we want to be careful that Lobbies don't start to overlap with Political Movements as well.
 
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What can we see about another country's lobbies when we look at their country tab as another country? Can we only see their lobbies targetting us or can we see e.g. the Sardinian anti-Austrian lobby mentioned earlier?
 
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I hope the system is robust enough so that there are not "duplicate lobbies". That's to say, if Britain and Russia are competing somewhere in Central Asia, we should be seeing a pro-British Lobby and pro-Russian Lobby with the assumption that the pro-British one is anti-Russian and vice-versa. Having four lobbies (pro-British, pro-Russian, anti-British, anti-Russian) would kind of destroy the whole point of lobbies.
I think that four Lobbies is rather unlikely to occur, because you only have 8 normal IGs in the game, and more than one IG can join a Lobby.

In this scenario, assuming Russia is autocratic and Britain is liberal, then we might expect that Industrialists join the pro-British Lobby (because of the UK's Free Trade policy) and the Sunni Ulema are anti-British (because of those degenerate liberal values). But Russia has Propertied Women and Christian State Religion, so if some randomness means that the the Sunni Ulema decide to be anti-Russian in a minority of playthroughs, I don't think that's a bad thing. These things tend to be partially path-determined in reality.

Do you need this, when you can influence the IG directly?
So that you can get the Opportunities. The IG can't give those to you.
 
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