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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #112 - Political Lobbies

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary! Today’s topic will be Political Lobbies, which is a new feature added in the Sphere of Influence expansion with some elements made available for free in the 1.7 update.

So, what is a Political Lobby? Put simply, a Political Lobby is a collection of Interest Groups pushing for the implementation of a specific foreign policy agenda in their country. Superficially, this may appear quite similar to Political Parties, but there a couple key differences in how they function:
  • Political Lobbies always form for a specific reason, often due to a Diplomatic Catalyst (more on those and the precise conditions for how they can create lobbies in next week’s dev diary) and pursue a specific long-term agenda that does not change over time
  • Interest Groups can be members of multiple Lobbies, so long as those Lobbies do not have directly contradictory goals

The agenda of a Political Lobby is always in relation to a specific foreign power, and there are four types of Political Lobbies being added in 1.7/Sphere of Influence:
  • Pro-Country Lobby: This Political Lobby seeks to promote and advance the interests of their target country, both in relation to their home country and in a more global sense
  • Anti-Country Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Country Lobby, this Lobby seeks to hinder the interests of their target country and ‘take it down a peg’ whenever possible
  • Pro-Overlord Lobby: A Pro-Overlord Lobby can only form in a subject country, and will always target the overlord. It seeks to promote loyalty towards and closer integration with the overlord.
  • Anti-Overlord Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Overlord lobby, this lobby is also only for subject countries and wants to become less dependent on the overlord, and ideally secure independence for their home country if the opportunity arises.

Interest Groups can join Political Lobbies for a variety of reasons, such as ideological alignment with or opposition to the country they target, or in pursuit of an overarching goal, such as the Industrialists joining a Pro-Country Lobby for a wealthier, more advanced country in the hopes of securing foreign investment capital.

Lobbies have an Appeasement score, which goes up when you take actions that the Lobby feels aligns with their goals, and goes down when you take actions that they consider to be contrary to those goals. Appeasement acts as a modifier on the Approval of their constituent Interest Groups, which means that your foreign policy actions can now directly help or hinder your internal political goals.

For example, are those staunchly Anti-French Landowners doing the Landowner thing of blocking those voting rights you want enacted? Simple! Just declare your opposition to France in a Diplomatic Play and humiliate them, and the Landowners will be so busy celebrating their victory over the perfidious Gallics that they will graciously let you have this one little reform.

On the flipside, you might find that the very pro-British Industrialists are not at all pleased with your continued alliance to a British rival, and that your previous plan of working to strengthen them in order to enact Laissez-Faire has now backfired, as they refuse to work with you until you break said alliance, forcing you to choose which of your two goals is more important to you.

Anti-American sentiment is strong among the Armed Forces and Trade Unions of Mexico, and both have been appeased by declaring an embargo on American trade, though of course the Americans aren’t likely to be too pleased with this action…
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Lobbies, of course, do not only affect Interest Group approval but have direct diplomatic benefits or drawbacks depending, once again, on whether the actions you take align with their goals. How large these effects are depends on the combined Clout of the Interest Groups that are part of the Lobby.

For example, having a Pro-Country Lobby will make it easier to conduct diplomacy with that country, both by increasing their AI acceptance for proposals and by lowering the Influence cost of any friendly pacts you maintain with them, but increasing the cost of hostile actions (such as Embargos) and lowering the Influence you gain from rivaling them. As you might expect, Anti-Country Lobbies have the opposite effect, making friendly diplomacy harder and hostile actions cheaper. Anti and Pro-Overlord Lobbies also significantly influence Liberty Desire, as mentioned in the previous dev diary.

Lobbies also have a secondary effect on AI behavior, as an AI country with a Pro-Country lobby will be more likely to adopt a friendly attitude towards the target of said lobby, with the opposite effects for an Anti-Country Lobby, with the Clout of said lobbies once again determining how likely the AI is to fall in line with them. All of these effects, as well as the actual creation of Lobbies themselves, will be available to everyone as part of the free 1.7 update.

Although Russia’s government currently has a positive attitude towards Austria and wishes to pursue closer relations, the powerful Anti-Austrian Lobby in Russia makes it more difficult for them to agree to any proposed new Diplomatic Pacts
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For those with the Sphere of Influence expansion, Lobbies can also make their will known through an opportunity or a demand. Opportunities generally come in the form of some diplomatic groundwork done by the Lobby that may allow their parent country to sign a diplomatic pact that is otherwise difficult to get, or even out of reach entirely. For Pro-Country Lobbies this usually involves dealing with the target country directly, while Anti-Country Lobbies will instead work to create opportunities to cooperate with the target’s enemies and rivals. Opportunities can be declined without any penalty, and will only result in a loss of Appeasement if accepted but not followed through on. Accepting and following through on the Opportunity will of course increase their Appeasement.

Even though Great Britain is Cautious about France and thus not willing to sign a Trade Agreement under normal circumstances, the acceptance bonus granted by the opportunity created by the Pro-British Lobby should be enough to secure the deal
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Demands, conversely, is when a Lobby believes that the government isn’t doing enough to pursue their agenda and well, demands action. A demand generally comes in the form of a specific action that the Lobby wishes to see taken either against the target country, or against a country relevant to them (for example, a rival or ally). A demand can be declined, but doing so will significantly decrease the Appeasement of the Lobby (though not as much as accepting the demand and then failing to follow through on it).

Feeling that the French government isn’t doing enough to foster closer ties with Britain, the pro-British Lobby demands a grand gesture of enmity with Britain’s Russian enemy
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Also available for those with the Sphere of Influence expansion is the new Fund Lobbies diplomatic action. This action works in a fairly similar way to Bankroll, in that it transfers money from the treasury of the initiating country, but instead of the money going to the target country’s treasury it is paid out among the target country’s Pops instead, with who gets what share of the money dependent on the target’s political setup and how much power sharing is going on - when trying to Fund Lobbies in an Autocratic country, nobody is going to bother spreading money around to poor laborers who have no say in politics whatsoever.

The precise effects of Fund Lobbies depends on whether a Pro-Country/Pro-Overlord lobby targeting the initiator already exists in the target country. If one does not exist, the money goes towards promoting the creation of such a lobby, with a weekly chance for this to happen. If such a lobby already exists, or once one is created, the pact switches to supporting that Lobby by increasing the Pop Attraction of Interest Groups that belong to the boosted lobby, which over time will increase the combined Clout of the Lobby’s Interest Groups, which in turn translates into greater mechanical effects and impact on AI decision-making.

Seeking to tighten its grip over their junior Personal Union partner, Sweden begins to spread some money around among the politically influential Norwegian Pops
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Finally, I want to wrap up this dev diary by talking a little bit about the moddability and extensibility of the Lobbies system. Besides the Pro and Anti Country Lobbies mentioned above, the system also comes with built-in support for ‘neutral’ Foreign lobbies that have a goal relating to another country which is neither directly friendly nor antagonistic, and even for Domestic lobbies that pursue an entirely internal agenda in the country they are created in. The entire system of forming, appeasing and applying mechanical effects from lobbies is completely moddable, and we definitely intend to use this system to create new and interesting types of lobbies in future updates!

That’s all for today! Since this one ended up pretty long, and we actually have a bunch of semi-related things to go over as well, we’ve decided to change the Dev Diary schedule so that next week’s dev diary will be about Diplomatic Catalysts and the Diplomatic AI. We also still want to talk more about Power Blocs, and will find a way to fit that in before release. See you then!
 
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Besides the Pro and Anti Country Lobbies mentioned above, the system also comes with built-in support for ‘neutral’ Foreign lobbies that have a goal relating to another country which is neither directly friendly nor antagonistic, and even for Domestic lobbies that pursue an entirely internal agenda in the country they are created in.

This got me way more excited than anything else in the dev diary. So it's perfectly possible that we can create an economic growth lobby that cares about increasing GDP and gets angry about high unemployment?
Or a countryside lobby that opposes building factories and supports bolstering the rural folk IG?
 
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Would be cool if funding lobbies could backfire, ie your funding gets exposed and it discredits the lobby. Maybe via event?
As long as this is not exposed to excess RNG like a lot of the game already is. The discrediting of the lobby event should be dependent more on conflicting funding from third parties that interferes with your own efforts.
 
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Will IGs join or change lobbies based on their leaders? Or is this more about the IG itself?

In the lobby screen, can you add the face of the IG leader next to the IG icon?
 
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Specific weird things:
> Industrialists joining a Pro-Country Lobby for a wealthier, more advanced country in the hopes of securing foreign investment capital
If this really is how it works, this completely misses the point. Local bureaucrats might get a share of foreign investment capital through corruption of various sorts. Local workers might be better off because of better labour conditions and bigger labour demand. Local capitalists are the least interested party in foreign investment: they will also pay higher labour costs, they have to compete with more effective foreign-funded industries.
> the money going to the target country’s treasury it is paid out among the target country’s Pops instead
Since there's no "pop cash reserves buffer" essentially, I already see people manipulating this by turning subsidies on and off to create radicals in "off" phases.

General feedback:

Generally while I've always complained that IGs or pops have too little opinion on foreign politics, and it's good that the lobbies are added, this system clearly doesn't go far enough. It doesn't really cover basic use cases.
The most natural desire for capitalists lobbies, for example, would be to push for foreign markets, with appeasement granted on
a) creating new colonies
b) getting more low-tech CU members
Neither of these is in any way related to supporting or opposing any specific foreign country.
Intelligentsia/TUs might be just generally pacifist, so the appeasement for them should be lost in case of any war except for the ones they find "just" for whatever propagandist reason. Again, generally not related to any particular friend or foe.
It's good that the thing is moddable, but as you explain it now, it's undercooked on "companies" level, not even counting as an MVP of what it should be.
 
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Can there be lobbies for or against unrecognised countries?

Probably beyond the scope of 1.7, but would be great if lobbies could form to recognise countries.
I imagine this has to be limited to very powerful and prestigious unrecognized countries like China or Japan AND it has to be gated by Society techs that increase political consciousness for Discriminated Pops like Human Rights or Feminism does for domestic politics.

We don't want calls to recognize Japan in 1836 and we definitely don't want a spam folder worth of calls to recognize Unrecognized Minor Power #23 happening over and over again in the game.
 
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View attachment 1114834
I apologize if this comes across as offensive, but this illustration does indeed bear a very distinct AI-generated style. Compared to some of the earlier illustrations, it seems to have a different texture. I truly hope that you can maintain the oil painting quality in the game's illustrations, ensuring a unified artistic style that is in line with the grand Victorian era. Even if you use AI generation to improve work efficiency, I hope that you can make slight modifications in the later stages to ensure that the texture is consistent with the overall game. Otherwise, If we see more bright and greasy AI generated graphics flooding VIC3 in the future, I think players will feel very sad about it. This will destroy the historical charm of this game. Even the simple line drawings in VIC2 are far superior to these AI images that are filled with a sense of cheapness and plasticity.
The above is entirely based on my personal speculation, and if this image did not actually use AI technology, I apologize.
But it does present a very bad artistic style.
I'm sorry to hear you don't like the art style of this particular illustration. It's not AI-generated.
 
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This is cool. I hope they make sense based on relative strength or else it will be the akin to the Attache situation in HOI4.

Also will it be possible to have more than 1 pro country lobby in a country? (Industrialists + trade unions being pro same country?)
If Industrialists and Trade Unions both support the same country they will be in the same lobby. Though you could also have f.ex. Industrialists and Trade Unions in the pro-French lobby and Trade Unions only in the pro-USA lobby.
 
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What you're describing is more akin to how we're modeling Leverage of Power Blocs as modified by Lobbies. If there's a Laissez-Faire Trade League Bloc in the world, your Industrialists will be keen to form closer relations with the leader of said Bloc, and will use their Clout to improve the Leverage they gain on you. This will make you more likely to be dragged into that Bloc, which will cause friction between you and other Blocs.

There's room to implement more broad "policy" type Lobbies in the future, that aren't aligned towards a specific nation but nations which fit certain criteria, but we want to be careful that Lobbies don't start to overlap with Political Movements as well.
I think it's necessary to have. I predict a lot of "TUs created a pro USA lobby after they became a Council Republic" followed by the Council Republic collapsing, and TUs continuing their support, because they are pro-USA, not pro-ideology of theirs. If the reason for a lobby existing isn't anywhere in their design, then it will lead to them contradicting their own reasons for existing.

A pro-lobby is something that supports cooperation with that country, not joining their customs union. I might want an alliance with a fellow aristocratic power, join their plays and oppose their rivals, but that doesn't mean I want to join a Bloc without even knowing what it is about. UK is a cool, wealthy, liberal country, our Industrialists support working with them more closely... like a trade agreement, maybe a foreign investment agreement, oh and it would be lovely if we joined their Bloc oriented around hegemony and subjugating other members.

I am also confused about the idea of overlap with political movements. These are for changes within your own country and see broad support from pops not affiliated with any IGs. Basically something completely different from a foreign policy nature of a lobby.
 
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That's great but please make sure that this is somehow clear to players. A lot of criticism levied at the game from the player base it's that the systems do stuff in the background and are not clear. This sort of already looks like million threads after release will be complaining about the fact that noone has a clue on how lobbies form...
It's possible to get a breakdown of the factors that attract an Interest Group to a Lobby, but with respect to how Lobbies form, that's a major reason why we developed the concept of Diplomatic Catalysts: to be able to explain to the player what specifically caused this particular Lobby to form. So first there's some sort of catalyst to create the preconditions, which the player is informed about if the lobby is created, and then at least one Interest Group also has to be sufficiently attracted to it based on the aforementioned factors, which are available in a tooltip. So hopefully this will alleviate the issue, compared to e.g. Interest Group leader spawning (which is often considered to be driven by RNG alone when actually it's informed by a huge number of gamestate-informed factors).
 
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I really hope a future use of lobbies is advocating for independence of incorporated states. For instance, an internal lobby in UK that is for Welch independence, or one in Spain for Catalonian independence. Currently there doesn't seem to be a good way for cultural states to break away.
 
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> Industrialists joining a Pro-Country Lobby for a wealthier, more advanced country in the hopes of securing foreign investment capital
If this really is how it works, this completely misses the point. Local bureaucrats might get a share of foreign investment capital through corruption of various sorts. Local workers might be better off because of better labour conditions and bigger labour demand. Local capitalists are the least interested party in foreign investment: they will also pay higher labour costs, they have to compete with more effective foreign-funded industries.
You make a good point about the attitude of local Capitalists. I agree that this would generally have been the default attitude in the period.

But Industrialists are not only Capitalists. Engineers and Shopkeepers also give support to Industrialists and they might want the foreign investment.

And some Capitalists might think long-term. If they can get enough Clout, then they get some Law changed that they dislike. So I can justify it a bit. But I guess you can justify anything. Again, I do think you are right that local Capitalists tend not to welcome the competition.
 
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It's possible to get a breakdown of the factors that attract an Interest Group to a Lobby, but with respect to how Lobbies form, that's a major reason why we developed the concept of Diplomatic Catalysts: to be able to explain to the player what specifically caused this particular Lobby to form. So first there's some sort of catalyst to create the preconditions, which the player is informed about if the lobby is created, and then at least one Interest Group also has to be sufficiently attracted to it based on the aforementioned factors, which are available in a tooltip. So hopefully this will alleviate the issue, compared to e.g. Interest Group leader spawning (which is often considered to be driven by RNG alone when actually it's informed by a huge number of gamestate-informed factors).

Sounds good to me - thanks for answering my question :)
 
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Can I only found a Lobby in my subject or would I be able to fund an Anti French Lobby in the UK as Germany to break up that dispicable Entente Cordiale?
Plus, if I could do I have some sort of defense against it as the UK?
Accusing the shopkeepers of taking German money?
Enacting an enemy agent law, forbidding my pops to take foreign money?
While we are at it, why can't I fund the anti slavery lobby in the USA? I really want to break up the USA ehm help the worthy cause of fighting against slavery
 
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if the amount of money u give when funding lobbies in other countries is enough to raise the sol maybe we can weaponize this by creating massive amounts of radicals in another country by giving money and taking it away every other week.
 
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I really hope a future use of lobbies is advocating for independence of incorporated states. For instance, an internal lobby in UK that is for Welch independence, or one in Spain for Catalonian independence. Currently there doesn't seem to be a good way for cultural states to break away.
The devs have said that this will be the case when the nationalism rework will take place. No ETA on that rework currently.
 
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How are lobby strengths measured? It just based on the clout of the IG's that support them?
Yes.
Is there a metric that tracks the level of sway a lobby has over IG's?
It's the inverse, the Interest Group lends its Clout to the Lobby's strength, much like Political Movements. So any changes you create to the political strength distribution of pops in your country will also affect the strength of lobbies.
Can we have a Pro and Anti French Lobby as Britain at the same time with different IG's?
Yes. This is exactly how the pro- and anti-overlord lobbies work that spawn in subject countries.
 
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Will there be any way to interact with the fact that foreign powers are funding lobbies in your country? For an example, I magine, the reveal that certain political groups were recieving money from an outside source can create quite a public outrage against them
 
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