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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #112 - Political Lobbies

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary! Today’s topic will be Political Lobbies, which is a new feature added in the Sphere of Influence expansion with some elements made available for free in the 1.7 update.

So, what is a Political Lobby? Put simply, a Political Lobby is a collection of Interest Groups pushing for the implementation of a specific foreign policy agenda in their country. Superficially, this may appear quite similar to Political Parties, but there a couple key differences in how they function:
  • Political Lobbies always form for a specific reason, often due to a Diplomatic Catalyst (more on those and the precise conditions for how they can create lobbies in next week’s dev diary) and pursue a specific long-term agenda that does not change over time
  • Interest Groups can be members of multiple Lobbies, so long as those Lobbies do not have directly contradictory goals

The agenda of a Political Lobby is always in relation to a specific foreign power, and there are four types of Political Lobbies being added in 1.7/Sphere of Influence:
  • Pro-Country Lobby: This Political Lobby seeks to promote and advance the interests of their target country, both in relation to their home country and in a more global sense
  • Anti-Country Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Country Lobby, this Lobby seeks to hinder the interests of their target country and ‘take it down a peg’ whenever possible
  • Pro-Overlord Lobby: A Pro-Overlord Lobby can only form in a subject country, and will always target the overlord. It seeks to promote loyalty towards and closer integration with the overlord.
  • Anti-Overlord Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Overlord lobby, this lobby is also only for subject countries and wants to become less dependent on the overlord, and ideally secure independence for their home country if the opportunity arises.

Interest Groups can join Political Lobbies for a variety of reasons, such as ideological alignment with or opposition to the country they target, or in pursuit of an overarching goal, such as the Industrialists joining a Pro-Country Lobby for a wealthier, more advanced country in the hopes of securing foreign investment capital.

Lobbies have an Appeasement score, which goes up when you take actions that the Lobby feels aligns with their goals, and goes down when you take actions that they consider to be contrary to those goals. Appeasement acts as a modifier on the Approval of their constituent Interest Groups, which means that your foreign policy actions can now directly help or hinder your internal political goals.

For example, are those staunchly Anti-French Landowners doing the Landowner thing of blocking those voting rights you want enacted? Simple! Just declare your opposition to France in a Diplomatic Play and humiliate them, and the Landowners will be so busy celebrating their victory over the perfidious Gallics that they will graciously let you have this one little reform.

On the flipside, you might find that the very pro-British Industrialists are not at all pleased with your continued alliance to a British rival, and that your previous plan of working to strengthen them in order to enact Laissez-Faire has now backfired, as they refuse to work with you until you break said alliance, forcing you to choose which of your two goals is more important to you.

Anti-American sentiment is strong among the Armed Forces and Trade Unions of Mexico, and both have been appeased by declaring an embargo on American trade, though of course the Americans aren’t likely to be too pleased with this action…
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Lobbies, of course, do not only affect Interest Group approval but have direct diplomatic benefits or drawbacks depending, once again, on whether the actions you take align with their goals. How large these effects are depends on the combined Clout of the Interest Groups that are part of the Lobby.

For example, having a Pro-Country Lobby will make it easier to conduct diplomacy with that country, both by increasing their AI acceptance for proposals and by lowering the Influence cost of any friendly pacts you maintain with them, but increasing the cost of hostile actions (such as Embargos) and lowering the Influence you gain from rivaling them. As you might expect, Anti-Country Lobbies have the opposite effect, making friendly diplomacy harder and hostile actions cheaper. Anti and Pro-Overlord Lobbies also significantly influence Liberty Desire, as mentioned in the previous dev diary.

Lobbies also have a secondary effect on AI behavior, as an AI country with a Pro-Country lobby will be more likely to adopt a friendly attitude towards the target of said lobby, with the opposite effects for an Anti-Country Lobby, with the Clout of said lobbies once again determining how likely the AI is to fall in line with them. All of these effects, as well as the actual creation of Lobbies themselves, will be available to everyone as part of the free 1.7 update.

Although Russia’s government currently has a positive attitude towards Austria and wishes to pursue closer relations, the powerful Anti-Austrian Lobby in Russia makes it more difficult for them to agree to any proposed new Diplomatic Pacts
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For those with the Sphere of Influence expansion, Lobbies can also make their will known through an opportunity or a demand. Opportunities generally come in the form of some diplomatic groundwork done by the Lobby that may allow their parent country to sign a diplomatic pact that is otherwise difficult to get, or even out of reach entirely. For Pro-Country Lobbies this usually involves dealing with the target country directly, while Anti-Country Lobbies will instead work to create opportunities to cooperate with the target’s enemies and rivals. Opportunities can be declined without any penalty, and will only result in a loss of Appeasement if accepted but not followed through on. Accepting and following through on the Opportunity will of course increase their Appeasement.

Even though Great Britain is Cautious about France and thus not willing to sign a Trade Agreement under normal circumstances, the acceptance bonus granted by the opportunity created by the Pro-British Lobby should be enough to secure the deal
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Demands, conversely, is when a Lobby believes that the government isn’t doing enough to pursue their agenda and well, demands action. A demand generally comes in the form of a specific action that the Lobby wishes to see taken either against the target country, or against a country relevant to them (for example, a rival or ally). A demand can be declined, but doing so will significantly decrease the Appeasement of the Lobby (though not as much as accepting the demand and then failing to follow through on it).

Feeling that the French government isn’t doing enough to foster closer ties with Britain, the pro-British Lobby demands a grand gesture of enmity with Britain’s Russian enemy
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Also available for those with the Sphere of Influence expansion is the new Fund Lobbies diplomatic action. This action works in a fairly similar way to Bankroll, in that it transfers money from the treasury of the initiating country, but instead of the money going to the target country’s treasury it is paid out among the target country’s Pops instead, with who gets what share of the money dependent on the target’s political setup and how much power sharing is going on - when trying to Fund Lobbies in an Autocratic country, nobody is going to bother spreading money around to poor laborers who have no say in politics whatsoever.

The precise effects of Fund Lobbies depends on whether a Pro-Country/Pro-Overlord lobby targeting the initiator already exists in the target country. If one does not exist, the money goes towards promoting the creation of such a lobby, with a weekly chance for this to happen. If such a lobby already exists, or once one is created, the pact switches to supporting that Lobby by increasing the Pop Attraction of Interest Groups that belong to the boosted lobby, which over time will increase the combined Clout of the Lobby’s Interest Groups, which in turn translates into greater mechanical effects and impact on AI decision-making.

Seeking to tighten its grip over their junior Personal Union partner, Sweden begins to spread some money around among the politically influential Norwegian Pops
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Finally, I want to wrap up this dev diary by talking a little bit about the moddability and extensibility of the Lobbies system. Besides the Pro and Anti Country Lobbies mentioned above, the system also comes with built-in support for ‘neutral’ Foreign lobbies that have a goal relating to another country which is neither directly friendly nor antagonistic, and even for Domestic lobbies that pursue an entirely internal agenda in the country they are created in. The entire system of forming, appeasing and applying mechanical effects from lobbies is completely moddable, and we definitely intend to use this system to create new and interesting types of lobbies in future updates!

That’s all for today! Since this one ended up pretty long, and we actually have a bunch of semi-related things to go over as well, we’ve decided to change the Dev Diary schedule so that next week’s dev diary will be about Diplomatic Catalysts and the Diplomatic AI. We also still want to talk more about Power Blocs, and will find a way to fit that in before release. See you then!
 
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It's possible to get a breakdown of the factors that attract an Interest Group to a Lobby, but with respect to how Lobbies form, that's a major reason why we developed the concept of Diplomatic Catalysts: to be able to explain to the player what specifically caused this particular Lobby to form. So first there's some sort of catalyst to create the preconditions, which the player is informed about if the lobby is created, and then at least one Interest Group also has to be sufficiently attracted to it based on the aforementioned factors, which are available in a tooltip. So hopefully this will alleviate the issue, compared to e.g. Interest Group leader spawning (which is often considered to be driven by RNG alone when actually it's informed by a huge number of gamestate-informed factors).
I know it’s not in the scope of 1.7, but would you consider ever adding a pop-up explaining the transition between IG leaders?

For example, “The issue of immigration has been a matter of increasing concern amongst members of the Petite Bourgeoisie. With the departure of [OLD LEADER], many have rallied behind [NEW LEADER] for his ethno-nationalist rhetoric.”

Or, if the ideologies are the same/similar, “[OLD LEADER] leaves behind a legacy of great respect amongst the Intelligentsia. [NEW LEADER], a close ally of his, takes his place as the new leader.”

This would be a really helpful briefing on the political direction of the country and could help make the leader ideologies feel less random. If you’re worried about popup spam, you could make this only appear for powerful IG’s or for extreme changes in ideologies.
 
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Though you could also have f.ex. Industrialists and Trade Unions in the pro-French lobby and Trade Unions only in the pro-USA lobby.

Okay, this is good to know. Wedge issues will become a thing in the game now.
 
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This looks great, really looking forward to the patch/DLC!

I know it’s not in the scope of 1.7, but would you consider ever adding a pop-up explaining the transition between IG leaders?

For example, “The issue of immigration has been a matter of increasing concern amongst members of the Petite Bourgeoisie. With the departure of [OLD LEADER], many have rallied behind [NEW LEADER] for his ethno-nationalist rhetoric.”

Or, if the ideologies are the same/similar, “[OLD LEADER] leaves behind a legacy of great respect amongst the Intelligentsia. [NEW LEADER], a close ally of his, takes his place as the new leader.”

This would be a really helpful briefing on the political direction of the country and could help make the leader ideologies feel less random. If you’re worried about popup spam, you could make this only appear for powerful IG’s or for extreme changes in ideologies.
I actually hope they have a more complex mechanic for this in the future than only a popup explaining it. I wish you could see characters and ideologies rising in your society and not -BAM- suddenly your IG leader is replaced.
 
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If such a lobby already exists, or once one is created, the pact switches to supporting that Lobby by increasing the Pop Attraction of Interest Groups that belong to the boosted lobby, which over time will increase the combined Clout of the Lobby’s Interest Groups, which in turn translates into greater mechanical effects and impact on AI decision-making.
Would be cool if there were different effects. Because I can imagine that in some cases an Interest Group becomes stronger due to foreign lobbyists (sending resources and specialists), but not necessarily more popular among the people of that nation.
 
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Only thing I dislike is the choice of words of "appeasement". Why not simply "approval", considering it seems to be about whether the lobby approves or disapproves of your foreign policy?

In the context of foreign policy, appeasement has a very specific meaning which is about the treatment of another foreign nation, not a domestic actor. This is needlessly misleading.
 
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After reading the dev responses, I also have a question.

Do claims on states, or accepted culture homelands under another nation's control, impact the creation of anti-country lobbies? To give an example, does the fact that France controls Alsace make it more like for anti-French lobbies to form in Prussia/Germany?
 
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Would lobbies also have an effect on Revolutions? Will the target country of a lobby join the side of the IG's from that lobby in their Diplomatic Play or Bankroll them during the Civil War?
 
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Would lobbies also have an effect on Revolutions? Will the target country of a lobby join the side of the IG's from that lobby in their Diplomatic Play or Bankroll them during the Civil War?
This is a very good point.

It would be very good for the game if revolutions would
  1. immediately make all lobbies targeting that nation to re-evaluate their preferences
  2. apply a significant multiplier to the existing contributing factors that make lobbies appear
  3. apply a significant multiplier to the appeasement impact of interacting with a side in a revolution
Considering how short lived and impactful revolutions are, lobbies need to be designed to react to them immediately and decisively to force other nations to take sides. Ideally, if your lobbies only sort of cared about a nation experiencing a revolution, they will now care a lot. If they did not care before, they will still not care.
 
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Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic!

How moddable is this? Could I, for instance, mod in an anti-communist lobby? Or a pro-Islamic one?

If not, I hope you guys add them into the game at some point!
I feel like we need a whole dev diary just on modding. Plus one on Performance, AI, Balancing, etc.

There are not enough Thursdays left in April!
It would be very good for the game if revolutions would
  1. immediately make all lobbies targeting that nation to re-evaluate their preferences
  2. apply a significant multiplier to the existing contributing factors that make lobbies appear
  3. apply a significant multiplier to the appeasement impact of interacting with a side in a revolution
Considering how short lived and impactful revolutions are, lobbies need to be designed to react to them immediately and decisively to force other nations to take sides. Ideally, if your lobbies only sort of cared about a nation experiencing a revolution, they will now care a lot. If they did not care before, they will still not care.

Fantastic points. I hope that revolutions (AND civil wars) force recalculations of lobbies within 4 ticks of appearing. Your last sentence reminds me of the threat system that EU4 uses where close neighbors and allies and rivals care more about your nation's actions vs distant nations and neutral nations. That was a good system that should be present here. (also the coalition system with Aggressive Expansion would work well here)


EDIT = The next diary will be about Diplomatic AI, so we just need a Performance/Balancing diary plus a Modding diary. :)
 
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Will it also matter for the relations between two countries if the IGs of a lobby are in the opposition or in the government? Or if the player is actively boosting/suppressing an IG that is part of a lobby?
 
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Your last sentence reminds me of the threat system that EU4 uses where close neighbors and allies and rivals care more about your nation's actions vs distant nations and neutral nations. That was a good system that should be present here. (also the coalition system with Aggressive Expansion would work well here)
Extremely good point as well.

If the new lobby system works well, I think it could fully replace the strange binary of how the infamy system works currently. Instead a nation's infamy should simply be added to the factors that make anti-nation lobbies appear (with strong weighting, but tapering off with distance). Generating a lot of infamy? There will now be anti-you lobbies all around you. That should already produce a foreign response to your actions, no separate infamy mechanic needed anymore.

You are right that EU4 mechanics are sorely missing here. Localized aggressive expansion is much better than generalized infamy - Paradox has known that since EU4 was in development so it's strange that Vic3 ignored that insight. Likewise it would be great to see coalitions as well. Maybe as a stop gap it could be used in the power bloc system? Nations with lots of infamy pushing unaligned nations into the power blocs of opposing nations. Would need to actually play with power blocs to know if something like that actually makes sense though.
 
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When the inevitable nationalism rework comes along, there will certainly be lobbies or something like lobbies filling this niche, yes. :)
I’m overjoyed to learn that the nationalism rework is inevitable.

I wish to govern a multinational Austria. As much as I like the country and its history, it seems too easy for it to survive nationalism at the moment.

I hope for the nationalism update to provide tools both to give a (big) challenge and for multinational countries to have a slight chance at surviving.
 
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View attachment 1114834
I apologize if this comes across as offensive, but this illustration does indeed bear a very distinct AI-generated style. Compared to some of the earlier illustrations, it seems to have a different texture. I truly hope that you can maintain the oil painting quality in the game's illustrations, ensuring a unified artistic style that is in line with the grand Victorian era. Even if you use AI generation to improve work efficiency, I hope that you can make slight modifications in the later stages to ensure that the texture is consistent with the overall game. Otherwise, If we see more bright and greasy AI generated graphics flooding VIC3 in the future, I think players will feel very sad about it. This will destroy the historical charm of this game. Even the simple line drawings in VIC2 are far superior to these AI images that are filled with a sense of cheapness and plasticity.
The above is entirely based on my personal speculation, and if this image did not actually use AI technology, I apologize.
But it does present a very bad artistic style.
Pdx has actual artists working on the game. I can assure you that even if they'd use AI as part of their tool belt you couldn't tell the difference. AI in hands of competent people doesn't look like a spam-generated crap you usually may see on social media.
 
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To be fair to that poster, it did look a little like AI art. A lack of textures, weird perspective between objects in the foreground vs the background, etc, etc. Compare that picture vs the earlier one with the diplomats/lobbyists sitting around the table.
Not wanna derail the thread so this is the last thing I'm gonna say about it but this re-enforces my point right?
The artist made a picture and people in this comment section are calling it out because it vaguely reminds them of AI art, not about the art quality at all. So when talking about art quality it doesn't really matter whether the event picture manages to invoke a feeling of 19th century imperial glory or diplomatic succes, the real goal of quality art in the 2020s is to make it not look like AI.
Regardless, t's a well-made event picture.
 
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View attachment 1114834
I apologize if this comes across as offensive, but this illustration does indeed bear a very distinct AI-generated style. Compared to some of the earlier illustrations, it seems to have a different texture. I truly hope that you can maintain the oil painting quality in the game's illustrations, ensuring a unified artistic style that is in line with the grand Victorian era. Even if you use AI generation to improve work efficiency, I hope that you can make slight modifications in the later stages to ensure that the texture is consistent with the overall game. Otherwise, If we see more bright and greasy AI generated graphics flooding VIC3 in the future, I think players will feel very sad about it. This will destroy the historical charm of this game. Even the simple line drawings in VIC2 are far superior to these AI images that are filled with a sense of cheapness and plasticity.
The above is entirely based on my personal speculation, and if this image did not actually use AI technology, I apologize.
But it does present a very bad artistic style.


O dear. Is this the new: "It looks like a mobile Game" thingy?
 
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I admit that picture looks different, but it's still in the "style" of other V3 pictures so it's probably just some subtle change like in outline or the hue saturization of mesh layer #c0f000 so what do I know!
 
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