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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #112 - Political Lobbies

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary! Today’s topic will be Political Lobbies, which is a new feature added in the Sphere of Influence expansion with some elements made available for free in the 1.7 update.

So, what is a Political Lobby? Put simply, a Political Lobby is a collection of Interest Groups pushing for the implementation of a specific foreign policy agenda in their country. Superficially, this may appear quite similar to Political Parties, but there a couple key differences in how they function:
  • Political Lobbies always form for a specific reason, often due to a Diplomatic Catalyst (more on those and the precise conditions for how they can create lobbies in next week’s dev diary) and pursue a specific long-term agenda that does not change over time
  • Interest Groups can be members of multiple Lobbies, so long as those Lobbies do not have directly contradictory goals

The agenda of a Political Lobby is always in relation to a specific foreign power, and there are four types of Political Lobbies being added in 1.7/Sphere of Influence:
  • Pro-Country Lobby: This Political Lobby seeks to promote and advance the interests of their target country, both in relation to their home country and in a more global sense
  • Anti-Country Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Country Lobby, this Lobby seeks to hinder the interests of their target country and ‘take it down a peg’ whenever possible
  • Pro-Overlord Lobby: A Pro-Overlord Lobby can only form in a subject country, and will always target the overlord. It seeks to promote loyalty towards and closer integration with the overlord.
  • Anti-Overlord Lobby: The opposite of the Pro-Overlord lobby, this lobby is also only for subject countries and wants to become less dependent on the overlord, and ideally secure independence for their home country if the opportunity arises.

Interest Groups can join Political Lobbies for a variety of reasons, such as ideological alignment with or opposition to the country they target, or in pursuit of an overarching goal, such as the Industrialists joining a Pro-Country Lobby for a wealthier, more advanced country in the hopes of securing foreign investment capital.

Lobbies have an Appeasement score, which goes up when you take actions that the Lobby feels aligns with their goals, and goes down when you take actions that they consider to be contrary to those goals. Appeasement acts as a modifier on the Approval of their constituent Interest Groups, which means that your foreign policy actions can now directly help or hinder your internal political goals.

For example, are those staunchly Anti-French Landowners doing the Landowner thing of blocking those voting rights you want enacted? Simple! Just declare your opposition to France in a Diplomatic Play and humiliate them, and the Landowners will be so busy celebrating their victory over the perfidious Gallics that they will graciously let you have this one little reform.

On the flipside, you might find that the very pro-British Industrialists are not at all pleased with your continued alliance to a British rival, and that your previous plan of working to strengthen them in order to enact Laissez-Faire has now backfired, as they refuse to work with you until you break said alliance, forcing you to choose which of your two goals is more important to you.

Anti-American sentiment is strong among the Armed Forces and Trade Unions of Mexico, and both have been appeased by declaring an embargo on American trade, though of course the Americans aren’t likely to be too pleased with this action…
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Lobbies, of course, do not only affect Interest Group approval but have direct diplomatic benefits or drawbacks depending, once again, on whether the actions you take align with their goals. How large these effects are depends on the combined Clout of the Interest Groups that are part of the Lobby.

For example, having a Pro-Country Lobby will make it easier to conduct diplomacy with that country, both by increasing their AI acceptance for proposals and by lowering the Influence cost of any friendly pacts you maintain with them, but increasing the cost of hostile actions (such as Embargos) and lowering the Influence you gain from rivaling them. As you might expect, Anti-Country Lobbies have the opposite effect, making friendly diplomacy harder and hostile actions cheaper. Anti and Pro-Overlord Lobbies also significantly influence Liberty Desire, as mentioned in the previous dev diary.

Lobbies also have a secondary effect on AI behavior, as an AI country with a Pro-Country lobby will be more likely to adopt a friendly attitude towards the target of said lobby, with the opposite effects for an Anti-Country Lobby, with the Clout of said lobbies once again determining how likely the AI is to fall in line with them. All of these effects, as well as the actual creation of Lobbies themselves, will be available to everyone as part of the free 1.7 update.

Although Russia’s government currently has a positive attitude towards Austria and wishes to pursue closer relations, the powerful Anti-Austrian Lobby in Russia makes it more difficult for them to agree to any proposed new Diplomatic Pacts
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For those with the Sphere of Influence expansion, Lobbies can also make their will known through an opportunity or a demand. Opportunities generally come in the form of some diplomatic groundwork done by the Lobby that may allow their parent country to sign a diplomatic pact that is otherwise difficult to get, or even out of reach entirely. For Pro-Country Lobbies this usually involves dealing with the target country directly, while Anti-Country Lobbies will instead work to create opportunities to cooperate with the target’s enemies and rivals. Opportunities can be declined without any penalty, and will only result in a loss of Appeasement if accepted but not followed through on. Accepting and following through on the Opportunity will of course increase their Appeasement.

Even though Great Britain is Cautious about France and thus not willing to sign a Trade Agreement under normal circumstances, the acceptance bonus granted by the opportunity created by the Pro-British Lobby should be enough to secure the deal
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Demands, conversely, is when a Lobby believes that the government isn’t doing enough to pursue their agenda and well, demands action. A demand generally comes in the form of a specific action that the Lobby wishes to see taken either against the target country, or against a country relevant to them (for example, a rival or ally). A demand can be declined, but doing so will significantly decrease the Appeasement of the Lobby (though not as much as accepting the demand and then failing to follow through on it).

Feeling that the French government isn’t doing enough to foster closer ties with Britain, the pro-British Lobby demands a grand gesture of enmity with Britain’s Russian enemy
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Also available for those with the Sphere of Influence expansion is the new Fund Lobbies diplomatic action. This action works in a fairly similar way to Bankroll, in that it transfers money from the treasury of the initiating country, but instead of the money going to the target country’s treasury it is paid out among the target country’s Pops instead, with who gets what share of the money dependent on the target’s political setup and how much power sharing is going on - when trying to Fund Lobbies in an Autocratic country, nobody is going to bother spreading money around to poor laborers who have no say in politics whatsoever.

The precise effects of Fund Lobbies depends on whether a Pro-Country/Pro-Overlord lobby targeting the initiator already exists in the target country. If one does not exist, the money goes towards promoting the creation of such a lobby, with a weekly chance for this to happen. If such a lobby already exists, or once one is created, the pact switches to supporting that Lobby by increasing the Pop Attraction of Interest Groups that belong to the boosted lobby, which over time will increase the combined Clout of the Lobby’s Interest Groups, which in turn translates into greater mechanical effects and impact on AI decision-making.

Seeking to tighten its grip over their junior Personal Union partner, Sweden begins to spread some money around among the politically influential Norwegian Pops
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Finally, I want to wrap up this dev diary by talking a little bit about the moddability and extensibility of the Lobbies system. Besides the Pro and Anti Country Lobbies mentioned above, the system also comes with built-in support for ‘neutral’ Foreign lobbies that have a goal relating to another country which is neither directly friendly nor antagonistic, and even for Domestic lobbies that pursue an entirely internal agenda in the country they are created in. The entire system of forming, appeasing and applying mechanical effects from lobbies is completely moddable, and we definitely intend to use this system to create new and interesting types of lobbies in future updates!

That’s all for today! Since this one ended up pretty long, and we actually have a bunch of semi-related things to go over as well, we’ve decided to change the Dev Diary schedule so that next week’s dev diary will be about Diplomatic Catalysts and the Diplomatic AI. We also still want to talk more about Power Blocs, and will find a way to fit that in before release. See you then!
 
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View attachment 1114834
I apologize if this comes across as offensive, but this illustration does indeed bear a very distinct AI-generated style. Compared to some of the earlier illustrations, it seems to have a different texture. I truly hope that you can maintain the oil painting quality in the game's illustrations, ensuring a unified artistic style that is in line with the grand Victorian era. Even if you use AI generation to improve work efficiency, I hope that you can make slight modifications in the later stages to ensure that the texture is consistent with the overall game. Otherwise, If we see more bright and greasy AI generated graphics flooding VIC3 in the future, I think players will feel very sad about it. This will destroy the historical charm of this game. Even the simple line drawings in VIC2 are far superior to these AI images that are filled with a sense of cheapness and plasticity.
The above is entirely based on my personal speculation, and if this image did not actually use AI technology, I apologize.
But it does present a very bad artistic style.
I for one will be very happy if they used AI generated images.

Besides, the historical charm of this game is already destroyed when they decided to make this game run on computers, which was invented decades after 1936, isn't it? Computer games are filled with a sense of cheapness and electricity compared to board games, aren't they?
 
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I think this is a great step forward but I do think there is point being made, that tying lobbies only to pro/against countries makes it a bit narrow.

It would be interesting to se it tied to politics and ideology as well. It could make an event such as the revolutions of 1848 more interesting as its basically a international paneuropean event against absolute monarchy and for liberalism in the form of constitutional monarchies and republics. And it explains why Western countries intervened in the Russian civil war.

On the other hand Vic3 is probably the most complex grand strategy out there in terms of mechanics etc, so I do support the way this mechanic will be released with hopes that later patches will expand on this.
 
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A thing i hope not happen is exemple.
Austria have pro-russia lobby. But russia have anti-austria lobby.
Why is that a problem? One nation can have a view of the other which is not reciprocated. The situation always resolves itself if the AI takes actions that serve its own strategic interests. If Austria has a interest that needs to be friendly with Russia, its lobby will grow in power as it undertakes these actions. If Russia has a interest that needs to be hostile with Austria, the same will occur.

Eventually, one nation will give in to geopolitical reality and switch its stance, whether this is from persistant bad (or good!) relations or from a war that disillusions Austria or from a temporary alliance on the same side of another third-party war where Russia is brought around to the appeal of being friends with Austria.

This is how geopolitics works IRL. If the theoretical changes of Sphere of Influence hold up in practice, this will be a much better model of geopolitics, including all the mismatching national diplomatic stances and interests.

I desperately HOPE that Austria can have a pro-Russia lobby and Russia has an anti-Austria lobby. The meaty game-play is in figuring out how to turn these situations to your advantage.

My one worry is that the Diplomatic AI can't keep up with the new mechanics. Next week's dev diary will be very important to see if Lobbies and Power Blocs will actually be feasible in 1.7.
 
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Why is that a problem? One nation can have a view of the other which is not reciprocated. The situation always resolves itself if the AI takes actions that serve its own strategic interests. If Austria has a interest that needs to be friendly with Russia, its lobby will grow in power as it undertakes these actions. If Russia has a interest that needs to be hostile with Austria, the same will occur.

Eventually, one nation will give in to geopolitical reality and switch its stance, whether this is from persistant bad (or good!) relations or from a war that disillusions Austria or from a temporary alliance on the same side of another third-party war where Russia is brought around to the appeal of being friends with Austria.

This is how geopolitics works IRL. If the theoretical changes of Sphere of Influence hold up in practice, this will be a much better model of geopolitics, including all the mismatching national diplomatic stances and interests.

I desperately HOPE that Austria can have a pro-Russia lobby and Russia has an anti-Austria lobby. The meaty game-play is in figuring out how to turn these situations to your advantage.

My one worry is that the Diplomatic AI can't keep up with the new mechanics. Next week's dev diary will be very important to see if Lobbies and Power Blocs will actually be feasible in 1.7.
If you not understand what i mean...the problem not are this exist, the problem are HOW lobby are implemented and if are static and more important if the player cannot do nothing and need only say "not value ally with X because he have anti-my-country lobby"...i mean if you invest TONS of resource you can destroy the anti-country lobby in the target country.
 
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If you not understand what i mean...the problem not are this exist, the problem are HOW lobby are implemented and if are static and more important if the player cannot do nothing and need only say "not value ally with X because he have anti-my-country lobby"...i mean if you invest TONS of resource you can destroy the anti-country lobby in the target country.
That is going to be expensive, you are really dedicated to making the other nation your friend then. That usually works IRL unless the other party has a strong reason not to be your friend (you hold a critical province of theirs, you threaten their friends that they are even closer to, you threaten their economy). If you don't fit any of the criteria why they should NOT be your friend, I don't see the problem in you investing a bunch of money and becoming their friend.

That is a big opportunity cost to you. And other third parties can do the same with your diplomatic target so it all washes out in the end.

As I said, my only concern is that the AI can actually process and act on new mechanics. We will see next week what PDX intends to do here.
 
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That is going to be expensive, you are really dedicated to making the other nation your friend then. That usually works IRL unless the other party has a strong reason not to be your friend (you hold a critical province of theirs, you threaten their friends that they are even closer to, you threaten their economy). If you don't fit any of the criteria why they should NOT be your friend, I don't see the problem in you investing a bunch of money and becoming their friend.

That is a big opportunity cost to you. And other third parties can do the same with your diplomatic target so it all washes out in the end.

As I said, my only concern is that the AI can actually process and act on new mechanics. We will see next week what PDX intends to do here.
Yes this is too my concern, but i mean, if there no problems (no threath on him friends, no core province owned) the anti-lobby can be beated...the real problema if in UK start the anti-french lobby, and the anti-french lobby still until the game indipendently of what the players do.
 
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Yes this is too my concern, but i mean, if there no problems (no threath on him friends, no core province owned) the anti-lobby can be beated...the real problema if in UK start the anti-french lobby, and the anti-french lobby still until the game indipendently of what the players do.
The UK can just ally with France in plays, empower the IGs that are in the pro-France IG, allow France to invest in the UK, invest in France as the UK, sign trade agreements, improve relations, etc, etc. This would weaken the anti-France lobby and strengthen the pro-France lobby if you want that as the UK player. (I assumed you are the UK player here, your previous post was hard to understand in the 2nd half)

I don't see the problem here, Influence seems to be the new currency in short supply here and if someone wants to fund a anti-country lobby in your nation, they are not going to be able to do other things like form and maintain Power Blocs, regular diplomatic pacts, subjects, invest in other countries, invite foreign investment, etc, etc to the same extent as if they were not funding that lobby. There seems to be a countermove to every move here so I am happy with that.
 
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The UK can just ally with France in plays, empower the IGs that are in the pro-France IG, allow France to invest in the UK, invest in France as the UK, sign trade agreements, improve relations, etc, etc. This would weaken the anti-France lobby and strengthen the pro-France lobby if you want that as the UK player. (I assumed you are the UK player here, your previous post was hard to understand in the 2nd half)

I don't see the problem here, Influence seems to be the new currency in short supply here and if someone wants to fund a anti-country lobby in your nation, they are not going to be able to do other things like form and maintain Power Blocs, regular diplomatic pacts, subjects, etc, etc to the same extent as if they were not funding that lobby. There seems to be a countermove to every move here so I am happy with that.
I hope at end IA not finance things randomically and sometimes angaist their own interest...
 
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This would be very cool but also a bit of a UX and AI nightmare, so it's not happening for Sphere of Influence release at least. There's an idea to allow Fund Lobbies to also increase the chance that anti-lobbies for your rivals spawn in that country, but whether that would be a good idea in practice we'll have to see, so no promises.
For UX it can be default options as current fund pro-your country lobby. Radio buttons for pro and anti, pro as default. A selector where you can select a country from the map or an autocomplete search box, your country chosen by default. For happy path nothing changes, for versatility can choose other options.

AI can be much harder for sure. Maybe they should only use the happy path? So that nothing changes from current implementations.
 
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Also I'm glad that there are going to be more uses for Influence now. As it stands I'm usually swimming in a massive Influence surplus that I have no real use for.
 
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Also I'm glad that there are going to be more uses for Influence now. As it stands I'm usually swimming in a massive Influence surplus that I have no real use for.
Really? I find that as a Great Power, I never have enough Influence as I am always increasing relations, doing trade agreements or defensive pacts, bankrolling weaker nations, etc, etc.
 
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Really? I find that as a Great Power, I never have enough Influence as I am always increasing relations, doing trade agreements or defensive pacts, bankrolling weaker nations, etc, etc.
Ah, maybe it's because I mostly play as regional powers like Brazil.
 
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Linking the internal politics to diplomatic actions has been on my wishlist for a while. Its good to see how they intend to implement it, and the lobby system sounds like its flexible enough to link internal politics to other types of activity in the future too.
 
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I think trade agreement should be separate from free trade agreement. Trade agreement should open a screen where you select up to 2 goods you won't charge tariffs for and the other party can choose up to 2 goods to do the same.
 
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Wanted to ask about foreign investment although I am aware I'm a bit late. If I were to invest in a new building in a country would I be able to see the productivity and revenue of the building like if we build it in our own country and whether or not it will have qualifications?
 
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I definately can see that the lobby system can lead to interesting decisions and situations. Funding foreign lobbies seems to be a great way to influence other countries aswell. But on the other hand there may be a loss of freedom for the player, if our nation became more lobby-driven than player-driven. But we'll see how things balance out in the end.
 
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Quick question, but will it be possible to view the lobbies at work in non-player countries?

For example, it might be helpful in the diplomatic tab of a country's info window if it listed nations featuring a pro or anti-[nation in question] lobby. Hovering over those could show clout information, interest groups, etc.
 
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It would make sense to have a Lobby type which seeks to accomplish specific strategic goals or seize territories with specific resources. Dutch Industrialists are constantly pushing the Netherlands to expand their holdings in the Dutch East Indies and favor aggressive maneuvers against any opponent in the region rather than focusing on a specific rival.
 
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