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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #115 - Graveyard of Empires

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Hello. This is Victoria, and today I will be covering the remainder of the Great Game-themed narrative content which is coming in Sphere of Influence and its accompanying update.

To avoid any confusion, I would like to clarify that none of the narrative content shown in this diary, nor the last diary, is gated behind the Great Game objective. The Great Game objective provides objective subgoals which grant points for certain journal entries and a score tracker which interfaces with much of this content for a more focused experience–it is not required to experience this content. All content within this diary, unless specified otherwise, is available both in sandbox mode or during the course of any objective.

Afghanistan

Afghanistan in 1836 is far from a united land. The slow collapse of the Durrani Empire has left it in a state of civil war for decades, with the primary claimants to the throne forming fiefdoms centred in Herat, Kabul, and Kandahar. In addition to this unfortunate internal situation, the Afghan states find themselves menaced by Persia’s expansionist ambitions from the West, the encroaching British East India Company from the East, and Russian influence from the North.

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All Afghan states start with the Afghan Reunification Journal Entry active. Whilst the primary contenders for reunifying Afghanistan are Herat, Kandahar, and Kabul, the minor khanates of Maimana and Kunduz also have this available, allowing for the formation of an Afghanistan under an Uzbek Khan.

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This journal entry allows all Afghan contenders to appeal to either Russia or Britain for military and diplomatic support in reunifying Afghanistan. If the relevant Great Power approves the contender’s request, they will be more inclined to support said contenders in diplomatic plays, and the contender will receive military bonuses in return for an obligation.

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Once unified, a freshly formed Afghanistan may choose to either pursue additional claims on Pashtun and Tajik homelands, at the cost of infamy, or stop its expansion whilst it’s ahead.

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Afghanistan’s unification content will be available to all players in the free update accompanying the release of Sphere of Influence.

Persia

Persia in 1836 is a country swelling with expansionist ambitions. The newly enthroned Mohammad Shah has consolidated his power, and wishes to annex the Principality of Herat as part of a grand ambition that would unify the Persian-speaking populace of Afghanistan with Persia and extend Persian influence throughout Central Asia.

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In Sphere of Influence, these expansionist ambitions are represented through the Eastern Frontier Journal Entry. This journal entry provides the tools needed to realise Persia’s expansionist interests, with buttons for approaching either Russia or Britain, as well as gaining claims on the remainder of Central Asia under certain conditions..

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If Persia occupies Herat, Britain will be warned, and will have the opportunity to demand that Persia withdraw from the region. If Britain sends the demand and Persia chooses to back down, this will represent a major humiliation setback in its expansionist ambitions. If Persia refuses to back down, Britain will become much more hostile towards Persia, and represent a major impediment to its future efforts.

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While expanding North and East, Persia will encounter the massive slave markets of Turkmenia and Uzbekistan, and be faced with the need to either free the slaves or allow them to remain in captivity.

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Additionally, Persia will have the opportunity to restore the great city of Merv, formerly one of the largest cities in the world before its desolation by Tolui Khan.

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If Persia is successfully able to complete this Journal Entry, it is almost certain to become a major power in its own right–one that may be able to become recognised, expel both Russia and Britain from Central Asia, and force an end to the Great Game.

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The above content for Persia is available for all owners of the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Korea

Korea, despite being far from Central Asia, was not untouched by the Great Game. In the mid-to-late nineteenth century, it began feeling the effects of European influence, causing unrest among the intellectual class and the peasantry. The philosophy of Donghak, or Eastern Learning, was intended to present a path to establishing a democratic and egalitarian society in Korea whilst simultaneously refusing encroachment by foreign powers.

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To represent Korea’s isolation from the world during this period of the Joseon Dynasty, Korea has been given the Isolationism law at game start. Once this law is replaced by a different trade law, a sufficient degree of turmoil builds up, and the effects of foreign influence begin to be felt in Korea, a new journal entry will appear. The Donghak Movement journal entry represents the hybrid religious-political peasant movements that occurred in Korea around the late 19th century. Whilst it is active, revolutions involving the Rural Folk will be greatly strengthened.

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There are two paths to removing the threat of a peasant rebellion–reducing the amount of radicals in Korea to a manageable level, or completing the demands that the movement offers the government. Whilst the Donghak movement is active, they may issue a petition to the government, demanding that Korea go back into isolation, permit religious tolerance, and reduce the power of the Yangban. Accepting the petition will please the Rural Folk and decrease the threat of imminent revolution, but failing to meet its demands within the time allotted will make the situation endlessly worse.

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If a movement involving the Rural Folk becomes revolutionary, the Journal Entry will fail, and massively escalate both the radicalism of the movement and the progress of the revolution. What would formerly have been mere civil unrest will transform into a near-guaranteed civil war–one which could run the risk of a foreign intervention which would be disastrous for Korea.

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If Korea has a civil war whilst a subject of China, China will be inclined to come to the defence of its loyal government–but a modernised Japan may also be inclined to intervene, and be much less predictable in its allegiance.

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As a bonus, Korea has also had several events pertaining to the Joseon monarchy added, allowing for the appearance of characters such as Gojong and the Empress Myeongseong.

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This content for Korea is available for all players who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

The Caucasus

In Sphere of Influence, both of Russia’s opponents in the Caucasian War–Circassia and the Caucasian Imamate–receive journal entries to represent their role in the conflict. In the case of Circassia, this journal entry is completed by expelling the Russians from Kuban and achieving the borders claimed by the Circassian parliament.

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Upon either the expiration of the truce between Circassia and Russia–or Russia’s escalation of the war using its Caucasian War journal entry–Circassia receives an event representing the historical Parliament of Independence in 1861. This event offers the opportunity to either focus on modernising the military in preparation for a Russian invasion, or appealing to foreign powers for recognition and support.

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Foreign powers with an interest in the Caucasus region will receive the option to offer recognition to Circassia upon the conclusion of its war with Russia, as well as becoming more inclined to support it in a defensive war.

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The Caucasian Imamate has also received a journal entry covering its struggle for independence. Its attached modifier grants the Imamate benefits in terms of morale and defence on states it owns.

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Once Circassia’s starting leaders have died, the Imamate may use this journal entry to dispatch a leader to Circassia, fostering a formal alliance between both states.

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If the Imamate and Circassia reverse the course of their wars and expel Russian influence from the North Caucasus, the Russian government will no longer have the ability to exert influence within the region. It will be forced to either try to maintain its administration through a storm of radicalism, or pull out from the region. Depending on the social technologies that Russia has unlocked, the collapse of the Caucasus may take the form of the restoration of some of its traditional kingdoms, the appearance of modern nation-states, or the establishment of a unified Transcaucasia.

Pictured: The third option is unlocked by the Nationalism technology, and the fourth by Pan-Nationalism.
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Pictured: The result of the first option.

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Content for the Caucasian Imamate and Circassia is available to those who own the Sphere of Influence expansion pack.

Earning Recognition

The “Earning Recognition” Journal Entry permits an unrecognised major power to work towards the status of recognised nation. This journal entry replaces the currently existing Force Recognition wargoal–whilst defeating the Great Powers in wars still benefits an unrecognised nation immensely, it is not a one-and-done path to being regarded as an equal.

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Conditions which benefit the cause of recognition include defeating Great or Major powers in wars, having high vital statistics such as GDP per capita, standard of living, and literacy, enacting voting rights, and using the new Request Embassy diplomatic action on Great Powers.

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The Request Embassy Diplomatic Action is unique to this journal entry, and permits for requesting embassies in Great Powers. Each Great Power that is willing to accept an embassy will raise the progress towards Recognised status by 10%.

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Conditions which harm the cause of recognition include having poor vital economic indicators, being defeated in a war, and having certain regressive laws that demonstrate one’s nation to be an unreliable business partner.

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Earning Recognition will be available to all players as a part of the free update 1.7.

And that is all. Thank you for reading. Next week, Max will cover the new art of Sphere of Influence.
 
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why would the British or French recognize Lesotho as a player in international politics just because they happen to have really good living standards for their citizens?
I feel like it makes perfect sense that the imperialists of the era might take a look at a relatively prosperous and "enlightened" country and decide to recognize it as a diplomatic equal. The imperialists weren't benevolent or fair, but they weren't exclusively mercenary and bloodthirsty; they had their own internal justifications on why they didn't treat some polities as equals; and "they are poor and backwards" was their favorite justification - if you objectively overcome those ... it definitely doesn't seem implausible that recognition could be on the way (also, countries are way more likely to want to be nice to powerful and rich countries ... and recognition is a pretty nice gesture).

Also, I don't know why you keep calling these requirements "social democracy"; they're clearly just the most basic form of liberalism, not anywhere near social democracy.
 
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I still can't believe Korea received Great Game content before the Sikh Empire.

By all means, give flavor to Korea. Give flavor to everyone. But this is a Great Game content update that skipped the strongest (non-great power) military power in the Great Game region.
 
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That's exactly it. British imperialists wouldn't be less popular among imperialist nations for conquering Lesotho just because they have high literacy and high GDP per capita. This idea assumes that imperialist nations were making fair utilitarian assessment of HDI on how they judged for what they considered overstepping in international politics. That's not how it worked.

More worryingly, since Paradox is making a historical game here, it purports the idea that if a country simply was a social democracy then it would cause more outrage in imperial consensus for them to conquered. This is simply not the case and no such thing was considered by imperial powers.

I'd say there's a few examples:
- Japan, of course, was "recognized" after beating Russia in a war, but already it had become a major industrial power that was relatively well-regarded by Europeans.
- Egypt: it will ultimately become a British protectorate and lose Sudan, but Egypt's fall into colonialism looks very different than what we saw in other parts of Africa and the Middle East, with a lot more respect for the Egyptian central government which remained at least nominally independent.
- Ethiopia: by the 30s, Ethiopia's invasion by Italy would be widely decried as other nations recognized its independence.
- Latin America: despite a few foreign interventions (eg., France installing Maximilian I in Mexico), we didn't see subjugation of Latin American states by foreign powers. Even take Panama as an example, which was made independent from Colombia but not treated as a colony.

Contrast that with China, where territory was forcibly extracted, or the West African countries who were conquered with at most nominal excuses. The politics looked very different in how European nations treated them.
 
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That's exactly it. British imperialists wouldn't be less popular among imperialist nations for conquering Lesotho just because they have high literacy and high GDP per capita. This idea assumes that imperialist nations were making fair utilitarian assessment of HDI on how they judged for what they considered overstepping in international politics. That's not how it worked.

More worryingly, since Paradox is making a historical game here, it purports the idea that if a country simply was a social democracy then it would cause more outrage in imperial consensus for them to conquered. This is simply not the case and no such thing was considered by imperial powers.
I think you are taking a far too literalist approach to what the different factors in progress toward recognition mean, instead of looking at what they represent in terms of gaining an equal economic footing with the imperialist European powers and showing a willingness to adopt a European form of government, both of which were helpful in gaining recognition of sovereignty by European powers in the time period.
 
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That's exactly it. British imperialists wouldn't be less popular among imperialist nations for conquering Lesotho just because they have high literacy and high GDP per capita. This idea assumes that imperialist nations were making fair utilitarian assessment of HDI on how they judged for what they considered overstepping in international politics. That's not how it worked.

More worryingly, since Paradox is making a historical game here, it purports the idea that if a country simply was a social democracy then it would cause more outrage in imperial consensus for them to conquered. This is simply not the case and no such thing was considered by imperial powers.
If Persia became relatively prosperous and educated and had some relatively liberal laws *and* was pretty friendly with, let's say, France, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that the French might start making treaties with them as nominal equals.
 
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I'd say there's a few examples:
- Japan, of course, was "recognized" after beating Russia in a war, but already it had become a major industrial power that was relatively well-regarded by Europeans.
- Egypt: it will ultimately become a British protectorate and lose Sudan, but Egypt's fall into colonialism looks very different than what we saw in other parts of Africa and the Middle East, with a lot more respect for the Egyptian central government which remained at least nominally independent.
- Ethiopia: by the 30s, Ethiopia's invasion by Italy would be widely decried as other nations recognized its independence.
- Latin America: despite a few foreign interventions (eg., France installing Maximilian I in Mexico), we didn't see subjugation of Latin American states by foreign powers. Even take Panama as an example, which was made independent from Colombia but not treated as a colony.

Contrast that with China, where territory was forcibly extracted, or the West African countries who were conquered with at most nominal excuses. The politics looked very different in how European nations treated them.
There's also the example of Siam under Rama V, where part of his strategy for avoiding colonial encroachment by both Britain and France was liberalizing the Siamese government ending absolute monarchy and adopting a cabinet system, promoting freedom of speech, and reforming the state bureaucracy.
 
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Thank you very much for country-specific content! I’m really excited for this. Playing Persia looks very fun with this DLC
 
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I'd say there's a few examples:
- Japan, of course, was "recognized" after beating Russia in a war, but already it had become a major industrial power that was relatively well-regarded by Europeans.
- Egypt: it will ultimately become a British protectorate and lose Sudan, but Egypt's fall into colonialism looks very different than what we saw in other parts of Africa and the Middle East, with a lot more respect for the Egyptian central government which remained at least nominally independent.
- Ethiopia: by the 30s, Ethiopia's invasion by Italy would be widely decried as other nations recognized its independence.
- Latin America: despite a few foreign interventions (eg., France installing Maximilian I in Mexico), we didn't see subjugation of Latin American states by foreign powers. Even take Panama as an example, which was made independent from Colombia but not treated as a colony.

Contrast that with China, where territory was forcibly extracted, or the West African countries who were conquered with at most nominal excuses. The politics looked very different in how European nations treated them.

Japan's case is especially telling here, it was definitely in the top 20 in GDP per capita and most likely had close if not above 40% literacy already before Meiji restoration and it certainly had those after Meiji restoration yet it took them beating Russia in a war to be seriously considered as a player in international politics. This again is the only real case in this era of anything similar happening in this period.

Egypt was made into a subject by Britain without much fanfare, and if Italy hadn't failed at subjugating Ethiopia there similarly wouldn't be an objection to it being colonized by Italy much like Libya. In game terms being recognized changes subject types and infamy modifiers. So any nation that is recognized should be difficult to justify colonizing, this simply didn't happen just by being competent at per capita terms.

Latin American countries start as recognized powers as they should be.

Game already makes it way too difficult to colonize and taking one state in Niger is about as much infamy as conquering Belgium. It should be way easier to colonize unrecognized powers and it should be very difficult to get recognition in the time period which certainly should require more than a single great power assessing living standards of the general populace as if that's the thing they cared about.
 
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The idea though that the Russo-Japanese war was necessary or even when powers recognized Japan as powerful is exactly what is being questioned though. It just seems like a popular myth
 
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There's also the example of Siam under Rama V, where part of his strategy for avoiding colonial encroachment by both Britain and France was liberalizing the Siamese government ending absolute monarchy and adopting a cabinet system, promoting freedom of speech, and reforming the state bureaucracy.

Which didn't work since France demanded territory from them which became part of French Indochina without any outrage on any of Great Power's part.
 
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I feel like it makes perfect sense that the imperialists of the era might take a look at a relatively prosperous and "enlightened" country and decide to recognize it as a diplomatic equal.

It doesn't.

The imperialists weren't benevolent or fair, but they weren't exclusively mercenary and bloodthirsty; they had their own internal justifications on why they didn't treat some polities as equals; and "they are poor and backwards" was their favorite justification - if you objectively overcome those ... it definitely doesn't seem implausible that recognition could be on the way (also, countries are way more likely to want to be nice to powerful and rich countries ... and recognition is a pretty nice gesture).

Kind of the point of criteria like "uncivilized" is that it is not possible to objectively overcome the categorization, since the "civilized" powers control the definition. There are many historical examples of countries that did follow this approach in an effort to become objectively "civilized", adopting constitutions and peacefully seeking European diplomatic recognition, in order to stave off colonization. Hawaii and the Philippines would be two notable examples. I'm unaware of any historical examples of this effort actually being effective, because justifications are just justifications -- the superstructure following the base. Japan is notable specifically because it did historically achieve a level of diplomatic recognition of its sovereignty, which is really the only historical reason for the mechanic to exist at all, and Japan did it through war.
 
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The idea though that the Russo-Japanese war was necessary or even when powers recognized Japan as powerful is exactly what is being questioned though. It just seems like a popular myth

I am for there being a different route to recognition than just forcing a war goal (which is ironically too easy if anything). However in no way should it be something that is related to anything living standards and literacy, especially in per capita terms.

It is one thing for a large and powerful country that is competing politically and economically to gain recognition and other for some small nation being recognized by board of states for providing well for their citizens. It also promotes the completely false idea that imperialist powers would simply cease their colonialism if the small nations in question were democratic and literate enough and were there to promote development and prosperity.
 
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If Persia became relatively prosperous and educated and had some relatively liberal laws *and* was pretty friendly with, let's say, France, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think that the French might start making treaties with them as nominal equals.

United sates was not making treaties with Japan as nominal equals in Treaty of Portsmouth! The supposed treaty that has Japan as a recognized power (or even before). Europeans definitely thought they couldn't enforce unequal treaties on Japan but that was because it had became a powerful country.

Persia wasn't even being treated with equal treaties by British in 20th century when it had a democratic government, it is slightly out of game's timeframe but Britain very explicitly overthrew Iran's democratic government because of nationalization of oil. So the idea that they would be treated more equally if they had become democracies is just patently absurd.
 
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I am for there being a different route to recognition than just forcing a war goal (which is ironically too easy if anything). However in no way should it be something that is related to anything living standards and literacy, especially in per capita terms.

It is one thing for a large and powerful country that is competing politically and economically to gain recognition and other for some small nation being recognized by board of states for providing well for their citizens. It also promotes the completely false idea that imperialist powers would simply cease their colonialism if the small nations in question were democratic and literate enough and were there to promote development and prosperity.
Just to clarify, unlocking this Journal Entry at all requires a nation to be categorised as an Unrecognised Major Power. A small nation is not going to be eligible for this Journal Entry unless it's competing extraordinarily well on an economic, diplomatic, and military level.
 
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Japan's case is especially telling here, it was definitely in the top 20 in GDP per capita and most likely had close if not above 40% literacy already before Meiji restoration and it certainly had those after Meiji restoration yet it took them beating Russia in a war to be seriously considered as a player in international politics. This again is the only real case in this era of anything similar happening in this period.

Egypt was made into a subject by Britain without much fanfare, and if Italy hadn't failed at subjugating Ethiopia there similarly wouldn't be an objection to it being colonized by Italy much like Libya. In game terms being recognized changes subject types and infamy modifiers. So any nation that is recognized should be difficult to justify colonizing, this simply didn't happen just by being competent at per capita terms.

Latin American countries start as recognized powers as they should be.

Game already makes it way too difficult to colonize and taking one state in Niger is about as much infamy as conquering Belgium. It should be way easier to colonize unrecognized powers and it should be very difficult to get recognition in the time period which certainly should require more than a single great power assessing living standards of the general populace as if that's the thing they cared about.
I think Egypt is an important example specifically because its colonization was different to other nations we saw: again, contrast this with Benin, the opposite side of the spectrum.

By the time Egypt became a protectorate, it was in a decades-long decline, and solicited foreign support to put down a major mutiny. That's no different than in-game examples where the Netherlands agrees to become a Prussian puppet to put down a revolution. The Khedive maintained his authority over Egypt, albeit with much more British influence to be sure, and the British did not directly administer Egypt.
 
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These choose your own adventure TNO-esque journal entries are quickly becoming one of my least favorite pdx mechanics.

Also holy cow do those 3d portraits look terrible.
 
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Can you change how closed borders stops internal migration? It makes very little sense to bind internal and external migration together like this.
 
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Just to clarify, unlocking this Journal Entry at all requires a nation to be categorised as an Unrecognised Major Power. A small nation is not going to be eligible for this Journal Entry unless it's competing extraordinarily well on an economic, diplomatic, and military level.

That's much better, thanks for the clarification. On other point, how many of the criteria needs to be filled for this journal entry to succeed? I think some of them like literacy requirement should be removed as it's too much of a first order variable. A certain level of literacy will be required anyway for higher SoL and GDP per capita so it shouldn't be counting towards recognition by itself. I would generally say things that are important for hard power such as military and navy should be much more relevant than things like SoL as well.
 
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There are many historical examples of countries that did follow this approach in an effort to become objectively "civilized", adopting constitutions and peacefully seeking European diplomatic recognition, in order to stave off colonization. Hawaii and the Philippines would be two notable examples. I'm unaware of any historical examples of this effort actually being effective
I would say that Hawaii is an example of a country that successfully achieved diplomatic recognition from the major powers of the world - and did it without warfare. They had several bilateral treaties with foreign states and pretty clearly weren't being treated like "uncivilized tribes" - they were treated like a weak and defenseless (but nonetheless real) state. It didn't stop them from being dominated and annexed by the US, but who ever said it would? Mexico was certainly diplomatically recognized, but that didn't save it from the Mexican American War or the Second French Intervention.
Japan is notable specifically because it did historically achieve a level of diplomatic recognition of its sovereignty, which is really the only historical reason for the mechanic to exist at all, and Japan did it through war.
Eh, that's sort of a historical myth: look at the treaty that this mechanic is clearly modeled after.
 
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