Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #119 - Smörgåsbord of Changes in 1.7

[PDX_Pelly]

This post has been reserved for developer replies!

For this caption I had to provide Alex with the Blimey part because initially he wrote 'Golly Gee' sounding like a 1930s American comic character.

View attachment 1140634
For this caption I had to provide Alex with the Blimey part because initially he wrote 'Golly Gee' sounding like a 1930s American comic character.

I don't see any difference, they're the same expression!

will there be an update to ai?

cool new features btw, adds a lot of depth, the secondary wargoals for allies is massive and is going to make it much easier to want to participate in allied wars.

With all updates we're always looking at improvements we can make to the AI in different ways. It's just that it's often "we made the AI consider this edge case a bit more when trying to do X", which generally doesn't make for very exciting dev diaries. If it's something the community would like to see we could look into writing a DD or something focused on how our AI system works at some point though

Any chance to sneak in the history of wages in buildings as well as immigration/emigration on a national level instead of having to look it up state by state?

Wage history on buildings is tough because when you're looking at ~10-20k buildings and say one data point per month, that leads to a lot of data to be stored which increases technical requirements and processing and so on. We could look into something more simplified like just if it's been trending up or down or so though.
As for migration on a national level, I feel you. It's not entirely trivial as we'd need to handle the sum of the values from different states properly to give meaningful data (not double up on numbers, consider different edge cases of national, market and mass migrations, etc) but I think it would be a cool metric to see for sure.

Neat!

So I suppose there is no way to prevent intra-country migration now? Maybe Serfdom could do that, or the discrimination laws?

When declaring a new war while already having started one, will your allies still join you?

Correct. Well, at least in the usual sense. Isolated states due to low infrastructure or no port connection will still not receive migration, but generally, yes, there is no proper way of stopping national migration. A lot of suggestions mention Serfdom and it's something we've discussed a fair bit internally as well, so we're definitely looking into it! Don't think we'll be able to have it for 1.7 though.

Does this only guarantee support if the attacker is limiting the target's independence? If I'm guaranteeing somebody's independence and someone else just wants to open their market am I called in to defend?

It applies to any wars targeting the guaranteed country! It works the same as a defensive pact essentially. If a war starts against the guaranteed country, they're able to call any countries guaranteeing them to support them.

A couple of questions about how multiple wars work.
Can other nations do diplomatic play on you while you are on a diplo play or already at war with someone else?
Can other nations join already ongoing wars?

Other nations can start plays on you while you're in a play yourself, yes. (that's also the case on the current version of the game)
You can't join ongoing wars (outside of Violate Sovereignty and a few scripted cases)

Can we modders add new map color modes to Vichy3, just like some mods of CK3?

Not sure exactly what you mean, but you can change the color and textures used to some degree and a few more settings depending on map mode, but you can't make entirely new map modes as the data needs to be gathered and processed in code.

Good point, there should be a difference between incorporated and unincorporated states.

Discriminated pops can't economically migrate to states other than their homelands, so if you want make sure colonial pops aren't migrating to the imperial core, you'll need to discriminate against them.

Sorry just to confirm, is this a change in 1.7?

In 1.6.2, discriminated pops can market migrate to any state with a cultural community, not only to homelands. The chance to spawn a community is decreased, but it can spawn.

For example, as Russia annex California, and spawn a Tatar community there. Discriminated Tatar will start migrating there right away.

Ah sorry, you are right, internal migration of discriminated colonial pops is possible but not very likely. I will take another look at this to ensure that we don't get weird migration patterns as a result of this change. If necessary we could introduce additional limitations to the colonial laws.

Some kind of migration quantity limit or reduction modifier should show how serfdom block people from moving. Most European nations already failed to fully implement it before anyway.

Serfdom will prevent peasants from migrating in 1.7.

@Alexhesse

Also moving forward, will there be any use for a Gini coefficient to see wealth distribution between pops at a superficial level and a Lorenz curvature to see how land is distributed between population? Land rights have historically been an indicator of a successful middle class. Land can be sold, traded, or mortgaged for money so that people can invest in themselves and in their future.

I've considered us adding more metrics like that at different points! Would need to look into it how easy it is to actually calculate it given the abstractions we have, but in general I'm all for more metrics that tell you how your country is doing in different ways.

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Great changes all around!

Extremely minor nitpick: consider calling them "unilateral" rather than "unidirectional" truces. It feels a little more thematic; "bilateral" and "multilateral" are commonly used to describe diplomatic or trade agreements. But mostly "unidirectional" just feels like a made-up word.

That's a good point! Will bring it up to see if we can change the name

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Thank you Alex for giving us a comprehensive list of the new companies. Very excited to see what all their modifiers are.

I have a question regarding multi-national companies.
Right now, companies are only represented as national entities within their country of origin. During the 1880s companies for the first time sprang up as international entities. Rio Tinto (GB, Spain, Australia), BHP (GB, Australia), Unilever (GB, Netherlands) and the Colombo-German Air Transport Company (Colombia, Germany) are just a few of these.
Is there a chance that we will see representation of such entities in the future?
Giving all nations, that had a historical stake in such a company the same opportunity to slot it in as a national company after acquiring ownership of the resources in the other involved countr(y/ies) AND creating a positive political lobby in all nations with a claim to the company would feel like the correct way to implement it.

As an example: If Britain buys 3 levels of lead mines in Valencia, Spain, they should get access to Rio Tinto the same way Spain would.

Additonally, I would like to suggest some new company modifiers that as of right now do not exist in the game. This is due to the company Arnhold, Karberg & Co. It was a german owned trading company that specialized in building infrastructure in China in addition to creating the building materials there. Could there be a modifier that increases the building efficency such as the current "state_construction_mult" but only when building in foreign countries (and if possible, specific countries)?

Finally, for a future update, is there a way to split airplanes from tanks into a seperate building that may switch between war or civic fosued airplane production, as by the late 1920s, airplane travel started being commercialized.

Click to expand...

Multi-national companies does sound very cool! Overall I'm looking forward to us doing more with companies in whatever shape that might be.

A modifier like that should be possible to implement, yeah, Won't have the time for 1.7, but will keep it in mind.

Civil aviation is a bit of a tough one. I feel it's so limited during our time-period and even then for only just the few final years that it's a bit hard to motivate changing up the system just for that. There's also the issue of what role it should serve as I don't think it fits neatly into the existing pop transportation need. Aside from that, spliting goods that share buildings into separate buildings is something we evaluate from time to time.

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At least it wasn't "Crikey, mate!"

Those are just the same words, I don't see the difference!

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Awesome dev diary, looking forward to the new updates. Is the dev team ever considering adding the ability to re-name states, buildings, country, etc.?

It's something that comes up now and then. There's a number of technical details that need to be sorted for it though which means it's more complicated than it can seem to be at first glance. But we'll see, maybe we can get it at some point

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Will companies ever have leaders for them that are also a bit like agitators and/or potential policitians? So in a way, you could have John Harvey Kellogg be a progressive force (at least for those who were 'American') within the Religious Faction? I'm sure there are others though my mind is blank as I write this.

I think that would be very cool! Generally there's a lot of potential to develop companies further

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I don't suppose this means you've taken notice of this little thing? Come on, give us that religious laws check - I patched it myself for a multiplayer game but it'd be better if this was part of vanilla

Ah, I don't work much with narrative content, but that does sound odd. I've passed it on to the people in the team who usually work with it!

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So can we support the independence of countries which aren’t in the map now, via the new mechanic?

No. Secessions is a different beast altogether and while what you're suggesting is cool, it's not something in the scope for these changes. This only applies to countries that already exist.

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This is great. Didn’t the previous QA say it can’t be implemented in 1.7? Something has changed so quickly?

If you mean me (I'm a designer), I said I didn't think we would be able to do it for 1.7 as we're very close to release and it's really strict what new things we can do at this point, but given the amount of people requesting this, it was decided it was worth it to sneak it in

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the changes to subjects are appreciated - there is one thing that always bothered me though:
under no circumstances would BIC for instance ally with Russia/France etc against UK. it is not a subject like Canada, for instance. BIC was british rule over indian population. Why would they want independence - and suddenly collapse and lose control to indians? only way india gets independence should be by indians rebelling.

there should be some kind of fix for BIC (and dutch india as well- they wouldnt be able to sustain themselves as an independent entity, and wouldnt rebel against netherlands)

If you mean the screenshot in the dev diary, agree! That was just a quick test I did to get an example screenshot of how it looks as a player. It's not representative of what the AI would do or anything like that

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@Alexhesse is it just me or this dev diary (screenshot titles) is so full of references to Taylor Swift's songs??

• hits different
• lavender haze
• 22
• so long, london
• paris
• all too well
• look what you made me do
• treacherous
• clean
• innocent
• bad blood
• style

have I missed any?

and to serious question: will we ever see this cruel summer maps with innovations generation or is it still a blank space in the development? i bet seeing this map mode is not only my wildest dreams

haha I'm happy someone caught my little Mastermind moment you got most of them, but you missed Mean, peace, The Outside and The Last Time! (admittedly those were pretty hard)

As for your question: an innovation map should be doable. Might try my hand at it at some point if I have some time over.

 

[Taylor_]

nice!

 

[Tomislav-II]

will there be an update to ai?

cool new features btw, adds a lot of depth, the secondary wargoals for allies is massive and is going to make it much easier to want to participate in allied wars.

 

[PDX_Pelly]

For this caption I had to provide Alex with the Blimey part because initially he wrote 'Golly Gee' sounding like a 1930s American comic character.

 

[Harry Hinderson]

If I remember correctly peasants under serfdom have a hidden modifier that makes it far harder for them to migrate between states, right? Is that still there?

 

[Metz]

Any chance to sneak in the history of wages in buildings as well as immigration/emigration on a national level instead of having to look it up state by state?

 

[Silens]

Splitting internal and external migration? You, Sir, made my day!

 

[LeSingeAffame]

Neat!

So I suppose there is no way to prevent intra-country migration now? Maybe Serfdom could do that, or the discrimination laws?

When declaring a new war while already having started one, will your allies still join you?

 

[Carmichael]

Migration laws will no longer prevent pops moving between states in your country. Instead, your migration laws will only prevent pops from moving out of or into your country, be it through mass migrations or through regular market migration from other countries within your market or power bloc.

While I welcome the move, it also worries me. You used Japan as an example, the most perfect example of a country which strictly controlled their peasants not to move to another state/domain of penalty of death. Please tell me that Serfdom prevents peasants from migrating?

 

[Helmut von Dandy]

Guarantee Independence works essentially as a one-sided defensive pact letting you support a country if they were to be attacked

Does this only guarantee support if the attacker is limiting the target's independence? If I'm guaranteeing somebody's independence and someone else just wants to open their market am I called in to defend?

 

[Metz]

If I remember correctly peasants under serfdom have a hidden modifier that makes it far harder for them to migrate between states, right? Is that still there?

It should be there, removing serfdom should enable peasants to move around at will. The problem was that in Russia, the abolition of serfdom made things worse as the peasants no longer had legal protections and there was no industry in urban centers for them to move to.

 

[yurcick]

Pretty cool.
Any news on the goods substitution fix?

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

The spanish inquisition looks like Laith, truly no one might expect that...

 

[Mr.Arrow]

would be great if we could support cultural secession from another country.

 

[Revolution 11]

Great set of minor improvements. Multiple wars and free war goal for called allies is a big step towards more realistic diplomacy. The internal migration change is a big change to many nations now.

However, auto-downsizing for privately owned buildings is the biggest change here. No more zombie buildings sucking up infrastructure within a state!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

[StrifeXIII]

Wow just wow! These changes look amazing, I didn't expect to be this excited over this dev diary!

 

[Aryiton]

Still no option to join onging wars? Any word on that coming in the future?

 

[Cymsdale]

I hope the auto-downsizing doesn't get too crazy, it can be good to have some levels to 'grow in to".

 

[Alexhesse]

View attachment 1140634
For this caption I had to provide Alex with the Blimey part because initially he wrote 'Golly Gee' sounding like a 1930s American comic character.

I don't see any difference, they're the same expression!