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Tinto Maps #5 - 7th of June 2024 - Italy

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fifth Tinto Maps! This week we will be sharing the map of Italy.

One comment before we start: we know that you might be eager to discuss other regions that may appear partially on the DD, such as the Balkans. Let’s try to keep the conversations separated in different threads, please; every region will get its own Tinto Maps, and we will show them and gather feedback in due time, in their own DD.

With that said, let’s start!:

Countries
Countries.jpg

The situation of Italy in 1337 is quite interesting. The main power in the peninsula is the Kingdom of Naples, ruled by King Robert I, who is also ruler of Provence, and a few minor countries in Northern Italy; his efforts towards the domination of Italy also made him the leader of the Guelph faction in Italy, which backs the Pope. Speaking of him, the seat of the Curia is at Avignon, and regaining control over the Papal States and moving it back to Rome might take some time and effort. Opposite to all of them, there is the Ghibelline faction, led by the Signoria of Milan, ruled by the Visconti dynasty. They are backed by other important powers in the Italian region, such as the Superb Republic of Genoa, or the Duchy of Verona, ruled by the dynasty of della Scala. There are also neutral powers, like the Republics of Venice or Siena, although they could be attracted to join one of the factions. And we also have foreign powers that have already set a foothold in Italy, such as the Crown of Aragon, which has established a branch of its dynasty as Kings of Sicilia, while also recently conquering some lands in Sardinia.

g&gs.png

Guelphs.jpg

Ghibellines.jpg

Guelphs and Ghibellines factions! They are International Organizations part of a Situation.

Dynasties
dynasties.png


Locations
Locations.jpg

There is an interesting density in Italy, especially in the North, where there are plenty of communes - the Italian city-states. You might also notice something a bit different from previous Paradox GSGs: Venice is not an island, but the location has lands around the lagoon. We aren’t 100% sure that this will be the final design, as we have a few ideas to try to keep its special position on an island inside the lagoon while addressing the issue of it being too small to appear in the map; in this regard, we’re open about feedback and ideas on the topic.

Provinces
Provinces.jpg

Any naming suggestions about the provinces are well-received, as usual.

Terrain
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Three usual terrain layers. Something that I want to comment on is that we’ve been following this thread about ‘Revising Flatlands and hills’, and we are trying to get a bit more granularity in the Topographical map with the help of @SulphurAeron .

Cultures
Cultures.jpg

Italy is also a region with a sharp cultural division, and also plenty of minorities; although they don’t appear on the map, there are Italki Jews, or Greek and Albanian people in the South, among others.

Religions
Religion.jpg

Another boring region, with more than 90% of the population being Catholic, with most of the religious minorities being Italkim Jews and Orthodox Greeks. We're considering implementing Waldensians, although adding more diverging Catholic heresies/confessions is a bit of a low priority for us right now. As a side note, it might catch your eye the Krstjani of Bosnia; we’ll discuss them later on, in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Balkans.

Raw Goods
Raw Goods.jpg

Italy is a rich region with plenty of interesting raw materials.

Markets
Markets.jpg

There are three market centers in Italy: Genoa, Venice, and Naples (which was a very, very rich country in 1337, the wealthiest of the region). As usual, take into account that. 1. We don't script in the setup which locations belong to each market, they're automatically assigned to each market. 2. This starting distribution is not final, and it might change, as we do tweaks to the market access calculations over time.

Population
Pops Countries.jpg

Pops Locations.png

There is around 10.5M population in the Italian region as of now. Taking into account how divided the political landscape is, Naples looks scary…

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, we will be talking about the British Isles, with @SaintDaveUK . See you!
 
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From the map of cultures does it appear that Trentino (Welschtirol) is of South Bavarian culture, why? Already at the time the Trento area had an overwhelming Italian majority
They do it again and again ...
 
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@Pavía have you considering tweaking markets so that landlocked locations surrounded by one market aren't part of another market, as can be seen in Sardinia?

Seems a bit weird to me.
 
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Any chance we could get a Tinto Maps for North America? Really quite curious how you're handling the situation pre-European contact, especially when it comes to finding Indigenous names for all the various locations.
 
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I noticed Arezzo is fully integrated into Florence. While this isn't necessarily wrong as in 1337 the signoria was given over to Florence, my understanding was that this was a temporary arrangement of 10 years after which Arezzo was given its independence back. Perhaps it makes more sense to represent Arezzo as some kind of vassal with an event or something granting them liberty after 10 years?
Same thing for Padova. A few months later the starting point it became independent again under the Da Carrara lords.
 
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Ragusa should not be part of Venice at all. They never were. At one point they were paying a small tribute in exchange for full independence and that was pretty much it.
wrong , Ragusa was annexed by Venice in the 4rth Crusade and got its independence in 1358 .
the part you mentioned was to Hungary . they paid them to stay independent
 
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I noticed that south of Salerno is Campagna.

It seems rather strange to me considering that Campagna only took on prestige a few centuries later just because of the diocese and the press.

Wouldn't Eboli be more correct?

The territory is the same, was the largest and most powerful city after Salerno in the area untill XX century, was at the centre of dynastic clashes at various times, as well as having importance at the later Spanish court and of course for Ana de Mendoza which was princess of Eboli
 
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My few propositions regarding colours of countries;
-Please change Croatia's colour to what it was in EU4 or to sth better :)
- The same for Parma, Lucca & Ragusa
- I'd make Bosnia more yellow less bland
- Naples' colour is too bright IMO
- I'd switch Sicily & Arborea colours

I adore new Milan colour map.
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Parma and Lucca starts as vassals of Verona, as Padova. That's why they are in that shade.
 
I'd suggest to change the location name of "Caserta" into "Capua" or maybe divide it into two separate locations (Caserta in the east and Capua in the West); during most of the time span of the game (until the 18th century with the construction of the Reggia (palace of Caserta), Caserta wasn't really a political center and was mainly know for the Duomo while Capua (contemporary city of "Capua" to not be confused with ancient roman "Capua" now named "Santa Maria Capua a Vetere") was the main city of the area
 
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I can see at the top of the political map a state which I presume is called "Obwalden". I'd recommend to change it to "Unterwalden" as Obwalden didn't exist back then. The split of Obwalden and Nidwalden happened somewhere around the 15th century and the region in the swiss confederacy was still known as Unterwalden.
 
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Any chance we could get a Tinto Maps for North America? Really quite curious how you're handling the situation pre-European contact, especially when it comes to finding Indigenous names for all the various locations.
Yes, in due time.
 
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