Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

[LoriKe]

What's the basis for the Croatian pops west of Lake Balaton in 1337?

Maybe the burgenland croats.

 

[kagami1999]

The Gagauz should be present in Bessarabia if they aren’t already

The Gagauz didn't settle Bessarabia until the 19th century, in the aftermath of the Russo-Turkish war of 1828.

 

[Pavía]

Were Bosnians really separate from Serbians or Croats at that point in time? Wasn't a Bosnian cultural identity only shaped later, during the ottoman times?

There was already a strong Bosnian identity in the Late Middle Ages, with a Banate that became a Kingdom, a Church, and a dialect of their own.

 

[Vukan3]

There should be a desert province in the Serbian part of Banat called "Deliblatska Peščara". Also the mountain province around mountain Zlatibor should produce gold

 

[Tibi088]

Also what is the naming convention? Because location names are all over the place. I think in the british isles Tinto Talks it was said that locations will have the name of the prmiary culture currently ruling them. Does that also apply here?

 

[Sokasz]

Will the arrival of the romani people be represented?

 

[_Gulag_]

I think you guys did a wonderful job with the Greek terrain map! From my experience in the region, especially the Morea, it's very accurate

I would almost say that the 'Cold Arid' should move a bit more into peninsular Greece however. I've been in the mountains here, and even in the Greek summers, it is very very chilly, and quite dry.

 

[Wildrake]

According to chronicles Moldavia was half Romanian speaking, half East Slavic speaking in 15th century: https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/Letopisețul_țărâi_Moldovei,_de_când_s-au_descălecat_țara

According to the same chronicles before the establishment of Moldavia it should be populated by Tatars and Cumans.

 

[Palando]

Scandinavia / Finland missing parts of europe?

The Holy Roman Bordergore is missing, too.

 

[ArVass]

Wonderful DD! Now, the elephant in the room is obviously Transylvanian. Why not just make them Wallachian? There was no real ethnic and cultural difference between Transylvanian and Wallachian Romanians at the time, nor today. Splitting Transylvanian off Romanian would probably only make sense if you split Wallachian into Wallachian and Moldavian, which isn't really justified in the era either.

Other than that, I notice the lack of wetland environment along the Tisza, parts of the Danube and the Drava, and along the Southern shore of Lake Balaton. These areas were marshy, swampy, wetland environments for most of history until their drainage in the 19th century, so you should make at least some of those areas wetlands for additional accuracy/detail.

 

[Pavía]

Will romani pops exist ? Past paradox games have lacked any representation of them despite it making sense. By the games start date they were already present in europe

We didn't have the proper tools to portray them correctly, I think. Maybe we could have them, but there are a couple of things that we'd need to have first, and I'm not entirely sure if we'll get them.

 

[Strybjörn]

I think Bulgarias colour (along with the culture colour)should be changed to a darker grey or possibly a green as it looks much better (in my opinion) and fits with other paradox games. Also sticking with colour I think a system like CK3 where the colour of a dynasty changes to the colour of the most important realm would be cool.

Also the Greek culture colour looks very dull and way to similar to Turkish which is especially important to not have considering the cultural mixing in border provinces. I think either I light blue or light purple would be good although not entirely certain how to change the Greek culture colour.

 

[Pangloss110]

Will we have an event to get free Ragusa (Republic of Dubrovnik) since it would historically spawn in 1358. by Hungarian conquest of Dalmatian coast and The peace of Zadar.

 

[buffon1313]

A few notes:

1. In Bulgaria, the town of Targovishte didn't exist. There was a fortress which controlled the region called Kosovo* (or Misionis, which is its ancient name). It's a few kilometers out of Targovishte.
Also Razgrad was not a significant location. This location should rather be divided between Tarnovo, Cherven, Kosovo* and Shumen. Or at least renamed to "Kapan/Kapansko"
You could also argue that the region south-eastern of Sofia was controlled by the fortress (and town) of Urvich, and not "Stipon".
Including the old capital of Preslav in the mix of locations would also make sense as it was still a big and powerful city through out the late medieval period, during the Second Bulgarian Empire.

2. Most of the "Hills" in Bulgaria are actually mountains.

3. The Wallachian population in Oryahovo... There is 0 evidence of such a thing. If you want to do it to spice things up, I'm ok with it. But otherwise it shouldn't be there. Also I'd argue there should be a Bulgarian minority in most of Wallachia, as it was just recently ruled by the Bulgarian crown and there's significant evidence of Bulgarian influence over the region.

4. I love how clean Bulgaria is religiously, but that was not the case back in the 14th century. At least Pavlikians and Bogomils had a few large populations in Bulgaria, so there should be more of this.

5. I have no remarks about the state borders as they seem pretty accurate.

That's at prima vista. Please do reach out to me if you have any interest in developing Bulgaria further both on the map and in flavor. I'd love to help! I have a lot of access to Scientific History literature and will be happy to assist you guys. I'd love to see an interesting and historical 14th century Bulgaria!

 

[ibvfteh]

There was already a strong Bosnian identity in the Late Middle Ages, with a Banate that became a Kingdom, a Church, and a dialect of their own.

Is culture based on shared identity or dialectal maps? I'm confused... I feel like we currently have no unified standard and every region uses its own definition.

Why Dutch culture cannot exist(and language used instead) while Bosnian can? (please don't take offence)

 

[Vukan3]

There should be a desert province in the Serbian part of Banat called "Deliblatska Peščara". Also the mountain province around mountain Zlatibor should produce gold

Forestation attempts were made during Austria-Hungary and it looked way worse in the 14th century. It's an area covering 300 square kilometres

 

[Kane_hun]

Whatever the ultimately revised provinces will be, I'd like to suggest that the Csallóköz (Rye Island) be represented as a Marsh, as it played a role in being a hard-to-cross border region during Ottoman times as well.

 

[Pescavelho]

I don't know if this is the case in other languages, but in Portuguese, we use "Magyar" to refer specifically to the ethnic group, while "Hungarian" refers to the nationality, this was especially common historically when Hungary was much more multi-ethnic.

I see you've split Moravian culture from Czech, this is sensible imo, but then I'd recommend renaming Czech to "Bohemian". The term is kind of outdated nowadays but it makes sense to use historically.

I don't get the split into "Wallachian" and "Transylvanian", either add "Moldovan" as a culture as well or (preferably imo) merge the two cultures into "Romanian", you've mentioned Aromanians are a thing so there could be a "Vlach" culture group.

You could maybe split "Transylvanian German" into "Sox" and "Danubian" (though the later only really balloon in population starting in the 17th century), as Transylvanian Saxons mostly originate from the Low Countries and identification as Germans had to do with the rise of German nationalism. But I don't mind the current arrangement for the Ostsiedlung Germans where they're called "[location] Germans".

Rusyns being their own culture when there's a single Ruthenian culture otherwise is weird... "Rusyn" literally means "Ruthenian", I say just merge them into Ruthenian.

I can't really discern on the map since they're minorities, but I should also stress that Albanians in Epirus (the region called Chameria by Albanians) should be of mostly Albanian culture rather than Arvanite. Arvanite isn't just "Greek Albanian", it's a specific culture of Hellenized Albanians.

 

[Tissaia]

General request: could you make Bulgarian, Greek and Turkish culture colours more different?

 

[CocoBZ]

According to chronicles Moldavia was half Romanian speaking, half East Slavic speaking in 15th century: https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/Letopisețul_țărâi_Moldovei,_de_când_s-au_descălecat_țara

According to the same chronicles before the establishment of Moldavia it should be populated by Tatars and Cumans.

Rădvan's At Europe's Borders goes into greater detail regarding the ethnic makeup of various parts of Moldavia in that period. I'll write more about it in a later post but the TLDR is that there were quite a bunch of ethnicities present, and Slavs were only a part of it.