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Pavía

Content Design Lead PDX Tinto
Paradox Staff
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Jan 3, 2006
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Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
Countries.png

Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
Locations 1.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
Religion.png

This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
Markets.png

The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
Population 1.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
 
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I know you just used "annex MOL" before taking the screenshot, you can't fool me
Actually, it's commented out in the script with this comment: #Moldavia is set to spawn through a DHE: #TODO CAESAR-XXXXX
 
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We've been reading this thread. Transylvania is a tag than can revolt/spawn from Hungary, as it happened historically in the 16th century, when it was 'released as a subject' by the Ottomans. However, we don't think that it fits for the situation of 1337, as King Charles I Robert made a clear effort to rein in the different voivodes, and make them into appointed offices, not hereditary ones. Thus, we want to portray a more centralized Kingdom of Hungary because of that.
 
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Were Bosnians really separate from Serbians or Croats at that point in time? Wasn't a Bosnian cultural identity only shaped later, during the ottoman times?
There was already a strong Bosnian identity in the Late Middle Ages, with a Banate that became a Kingdom, a Church, and a dialect of their own.
 
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Will romani pops exist ? Past paradox games have lacked any representation of them despite it making sense. By the games start date they were already present in europe
We didn't have the proper tools to portray them correctly, I think. Maybe we could have them, but there are a couple of things that we'd need to have first, and I'm not entirely sure if we'll get them.
 
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I'm sorry that this isn't the place, but I completely missed this in the Tinto Maps about the Poland region and now I notice it, and I don't know if you're gathering feedback from there anymore.

As a small request, could you split the location of Opava in two, having in the north Racibórz/Ratibor and Opava in the south? As shown in this picture. For those juicy German Empire's Silesia border. Please, please, please!

View attachment 1158617

Also, this shape is a little bit ugly imo :p but otherwise great map!

View attachment 1158618
Yes; please post this there. ;)
 
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Just would like to add I think "Transylvanian German" could use a better name.
To be honest, we aren't completely happy with the concept either, as we have four different cultures for the 'Germans of the East': Baltic German, Silesian German, Carpathian German, and Transylvanian German. But we think that it's the 'less bad' solution to portray the cultural melting pot that these places were for the different German settlers.
 
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Also what is the naming convention? Because location names are all over the place. I think in the british isles Tinto Talks it was said that locations will have the name of the prmiary culture currently ruling them. Does that also apply here?
The plan is to have different game rules for dynamic naming and different layers of dynamic names. So, let's say, the locations in the Kingdom of Hungary could potentially have 3 or 4 different names for them, depending on the language.
 
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Wonderful DD! Now, the elephant in the room is obviously Transylvanian. Why not just make them Wallachian? There was no real ethnic and cultural difference between Transylvanian and Wallachian Romanians at the time, nor today. Splitting Transylvanian off Romanian would probably only make sense if you split Wallachian into Wallachian and Moldavian, which isn't really justified in the era either.

Other than that, I notice the lack of wetland environment along the Tisza, parts of the Danube and the Drava, and along the Southern shore of Lake Balaton. These areas were marshy, swampy, wetland environments for most of history until their drainage in the 19th century, so you should make at least some of those areas wetlands for additional accuracy/detail.
1. We think that this makes for a bit better cultural divide (and, yes, in that case, it would probably be better to have Moldavian differentiated over time). In any case, we're open to feedback, and reviewing this specific topic.
2. We're aware, but it's a bit tricky; there's a group of people which are already in contact with @SulphurAeron (shot!), to help us portray the Hungarian wetlands on the best possible way.
 
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I think Bulgarias colour (along with the culture colour)should be changed to a darker grey or possibly a green as it looks much better (in my opinion) and fits with other paradox games. Also sticking with colour I think a system like CK3 where the colour of a dynasty changes to the colour of the most important realm would be cool.

Also the Greek culture colour looks very dull and way to similar to Turkish which is especially important to not have considering the cultural mixing in border provinces. I think either I light blue or light purple would be good although not entirely certain how to change the Greek culture colour.
Noted. We don't want green, as that may be too close to Ottomans' color, but grey might do the trick; we'll take a look.

I think that blue for Greek culture was a good suggestion, and we may end up checking that, as well.
 
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Will we have an event to get free Ragusa (Republic of Dubrovnik) since it would historically spawn in 1358. by Hungarian conquest of Dalmatian coast and The peace of Zadar.
We received some early feedback, and we made the Republic of Ragusa a subject of Venice.
 
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General request: could you make Bulgarian, Greek and Turkish culture colours more different?
Good suggestion, we'll most likely do it.
 
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Why do Cernauti, Hotin, Chilia and Cetatea Alba locations have so low pops? Both Cernauti (Tetina) and Hotin fortresses were already quite established in that time period, while in Chilia and Cetatea Alba there were important ports and centers of trade.
Furthermore, I would split the Soroca location into Soroca and Balti/Baltile (admittedly, Balti was more of a village in that time period).
Bug; we have to review all the pops under the Golden Horde this summer.
 
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