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Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
Countries.png

Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
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This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
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Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
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Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
Religion.png

This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
Markets.png

The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
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Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
 
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Is Thasos marble? I can't quite read it, but if it isn't it definitely should be.
I'm also surprised at how seemingly passable the Pindos mountains are. I've driven through the area a few times and thems some big mountains.
 
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really great detailed work.
I would like to know what source you used for the ethnic composition.
I would like to know how the composition of ethnicities is regarding the social class?
I would doubt there were any significant serbian group in Tetovo and Skopje besides the leading nobility. I would like to know in which way serbs are dominant in the Kosovo area and how come no significant albanian is found northern and eastern to the kosovo area.

Topography: the province of novo brdo is rather plateau than mountainous and the province Tetovo is flat as it is a wide valley sourronded by high mountains. I don‘t know what fits most but just recheck that.
Besides, tetovo province i would name pollog (valley)and the main town is tetovo.
I question the ethnicity of the prilep area being with no significant albanian minority at least. The prilep area and also the province of skopje is full of albanian villages all around making up the majority except most of the urban centers (which mostly tend to identify depending the ruling nobility courts‘ language).

Similair circumstances should be checked in other areas, like in southern nowaday montenegro and southern nowaday serbia.

I just saw that the debar province is missing the albanian dynamic naming although it is ruled by albania. Do you need help for albanian geographical names?
Can you explain how come bulgarian is the dominant group in debar?

Thank you in advance for checking.
 
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There are a lot of mistakes here.
Byzantine-Serbian Border is wrong, Serbia should own Sidokastron, Strumitsa, Stip
Serbian border in Albania should be on Mat River. Angevin Albania should only own Durres and Thopia dynasty should have its own tag under nominal vassalage on Angevins. Southern Albania should be held by Byzantines (perhaps as a vassal tag under Muzaka dynasty).
Byzantines should own Philipopolis (Plovdiv) and Karvuna could aready be depicted as a vassal of Bulgarian Empire.
Serbo-Hungarian borders should be mostly on Sava and Danube rivers as Charles I of Hungary lost a war against Stefan Dusan in 1335, likely loosing his possesions in Macva as well. Slavonia should at least be a vassal tag of Hungary if not depicted as a vassal of Croatia.

Culture map around Bosnia is the most problematic part of the diary.
sfadsda.png


Why are there Bosnians west of Drina? Why are Bosnians in Majority in Trebinje or Prijepolje? Why are there majority of Bosnians in Hum? Neither are there records of Bosnians west of Drina neither did Bosnia have anything to do with Hum until Stjepan II took over the region held by Branivojevici dynasty in 1326. Why are there Bosnians in Pagania? All of these things need to be fixed as soon as possible.
Albanians were a small minority in Kosovo (check Decani charter of 1330) so I am not sure how % does a ethnicity need to have crossed lines in the region.
 

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1) Is Moldovan provinces still placeholders? I really don't think there where lands so vast that were only inhabited by 67 people.

2) I fell like 360K population in Wallachia is underwhelming, as contemporary sources agree that in 1400 (so after the Black Death) it was inhabited by some 500k people.

3) How was decided that wallahians and moldovans are the same culture and transylvanians not? I fell like as I, a romanian living in Bucharest have more in common with transylvanians, because Wallachia was formed by a romanian who came from Transilvania, "Descalecarea lui Negru Voda" and became the first ruler of the country ("Voievod or Domn" in romanian). As for the establishment of Moldova it is too a romanian who came from the Transylvania and the people who lived there already didn't see him as a foreigner. So I don't understand the decision.
Furthermore if it is decided to keep the cultures separated the ruler of Wallachia should be transylvanian and the CampulLung Muscel (the place where Negru Voda established the Voievodat) should have a significant "transylvanian" populace (a thing that i don't consider historical, as there where no difference between the romanian people who lived there and the romanian who migrated and then ruled).
 
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May be a bit of a nitpick, but my slovak friend pointed out that the border with Poland is innaccurate, the Zakopane Location is larger than is should be.

I have also attached a map of Hungarian forts during the Anjou era that I found, it also has the county borders, maybe it could be of some help.
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East of Moldova actually is not flat. There a lot of hills. The more you go south the more you get flatlands. And actually in the Province of Iasi(from your map) there are actually a lot of woods. Now there are a lot but back then much more. Based on your map in Targu Lapusnei there is a lot of stone. the capital city of Moldova is called city of white stone because all the buildings in the city and not only are built from that stone. Medieval Moldova is also known for its great horses which were also taken as tribute by the ottomans for their army. I think you should also put this as a resource in Moldova and not only Wallachia.
 
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Yet a week, yet another Tinto Maps avoiding Norway (at this point the only European country we have seen barely anything from). Please Tinto I will litteraly pay you at this point
 
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Finally a point I already made in a separate thread. I think the locations in the Kingdom of Hungary, Moldavia and Wallachia are absolutely massive compared to every single surrounding area. I think it looks absolutely atrocious.

The reason I think in the case of the Kingdom of Hungary is that you have chosen the counties as locations. Thats I think a very bad decisions - the counties should be the provinces. There never existed a somogy province encompassing all of southern Transdanubia. Somogy county was your Segesd and Somogyvár location.

I suggest a rework of the kingdom of Hungary based on this map depincting the Kingdom during the reign of Louis I (1342-1382):
Hungary.jpg


Edit: I want to stress that I want province sizes and density comparable to Poland and Serbia. Absolutely not Germany or Italy.
 
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Why do Cernauti, Hotin, Chilia and Cetatea Alba locations have so low pops? Both Cernauti (Tetina) and Hotin fortresses were already quite established in that time period, while in Chilia and Cetatea Alba there were important ports and centers of trade.
Furthermore, I would split the Soroca location into Soroca and Balti/Baltile (admittedly, Balti was more of a village in that time period).
Bug; we have to review all the pops under the Golden Horde this summer.
 
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I would rename Edirne province to Just lower Thrace. Also, shouldn't Serbian culture be placed more to the west past Montenegro? Didn't serbs moved to Vojvodina only after Ottoman invasions? Also maybe it's better to divide wallachian to include Moldavian culture too.
 
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The bulgarian name for the region around Turnu Măgurele was Holavnic or Holavnik. Could this be represented in game if the region falls under bulgarian rule?
- Example from wikipedia's article on the Turnu Fortress - The medieval fortress of Turnu (English: tower, Turkish: Kule, also known as Nicopolis minor, Holavnic)
 
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Hi @Pavia, I'm wondering if the southeastern part of the Holy Roman Empire (Austria and Slovenia) will be considered part of the presentation of the Holy Roman Empire Tinto maps? In the event that yes, I would not mind commenting on this area and making suggestions in this tread, I would prefer them when this is addressed. Otherwise, the maps look good, maybe only Hungary does not have the same density of provinces compared to the Balkans, and the colors of the cultures of Bulgarians, Greeks and Turks are indistinguishable. Maybe I would give the Bulgarians light purple, the Greeks light apricot, and the Turks light teal.
 
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That looks more like a dry Mediterranean climate similar to Morocco or California than a desert
That's the picture from today, I live very close to that, it's all sand.

The Deliblato is an expanse of Aeolian processes with significant dune-like relief made of powerful sandy deposits. It is a unique feature in this part of the world as the largest exemplar of the true sandy relief. Dunes are 70 to 200 m (230 to 660 ft) tall.

Southeast of the sands is the Kraljevac lake, one of the reservoirs formed around the edges of the region, in an effort to stop moving of the sand. There are floating peat islands on the lake's surface, where numerous waterfowls are nesting.
 
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On the topic of Moldavia, could it be made as a playable non-territorial tag? An alternative would be to create a Maramureș tag which becomes Moldavia (it's more arguable than Transylvania, given the manner in which historical events went), though in either case it'd be nice to be able to play Moldavia from game start instead of starting as Hungary or the Golden Horde and selecting the "I wonder what they're doing in Suceava" option or whatever

Also another thing on the note of terrain types besides lack of marshes along the Danube - Wallachia should be a fair bit more forested in his time period. For example, the area around Bucharest was a forest in this era, yet it seems to be marked as a Grasslands province.
 
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Bulgaria not owning the Timok valley is honestly the most perplexing and bizarre thing to me about this map. Hungary invaded Bulgaria in 1365 and occupied Vidin for 4 years, how on earth did they do that if the two countries didn't share a border? Also, Pirot was in Bulgarian hands in 1337, my post on page 2 has the source.
 
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Not Map related, but a flavour suggestion: could you do a DHE that causes the Albanians to migrate in Italy (expecially Sicily, Calabria and Lucania) if Albania is conquered by an islamic power?
 
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There's two different provinces on the Asian side of the Bosporus that are in Byzantine hands but have Turkish names, I assume that's an oversight
 
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