• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
Countries.png

Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
Locations 1.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
Religion.png

This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
Markets.png

The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
Population 1.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
 
  • 192Like
  • 69Love
  • 7
  • 4
  • 3
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
Will we have an event to get free Ragusa (Republic of Dubrovnik) since it would historically spawn in 1358. by Hungarian conquest of Dalmatian coast and The peace of Zadar.
We received some early feedback, and we made the Republic of Ragusa a subject of Venice.
 
  • 61Like
  • 3
  • 1Love
  • 1
Reactions:
The plan is to have different game rules for dynamic naming and different layers of dynamic names. So, let's say, the locations in the Kingdom of Hungary could potentially have 3 or 4 different names for them, depending on the language.
And what are the intentions for default location names? So that we would know whether to correct inconsistencies or are they as intended.
 
I am from Požega in Croatia, so I would like to give you some input on how to make my region more accurate.

Firstly, Požega should be made into hills province instead of Pakrac. Požega sits in a valley and is surrounded on all sides by five hills which meant it was hard to invade and later retake for the Ottomans. Pakrac on the other hand sits outside the valley, though next to the hills surrounding Požega which are to its east. However west of Pakrac are simple plains and it wouldn't be hard to invade it from that direction.

Another thing, next to Požega is a small town called Kutjevo, famous for its wine which has been produced in the region since 1232. Everyone in Croatia knows about it and I always make sure to order it, especially when I'm with people who aren't from the region. Therefore, I think it makes sense to have Požega be a wine producing province, or at the very least a fruit producing one, since that is also common here.

As far as other parts of Croatia, Varaždin should also definetlly be hills. It is a famously hilly are and there are a lot of somewhat isolated villages there which often have their own dialects, precisely because they are seperated by many hills. Pakras seem to be a tad to big and Virovitica should be expaned into it a bit. Virovitica in general was much more important historically and it feels a bit too small here. Compare with this map of counties in the later Kingdom of Croatia. Vaska as well is a name of a small village, I think it should be reshaped and renamed to Osijek, which was a place where the famous Suleimans bridge was before it got burned down and is today the biggest city in this part of the country. The province of Pecs as well I would think about splitting into Pecs and Baranja, though I admit I am not sure how historical that would be.

Thank you for taking into account my suggestions!
 
  • 17Like
  • 3
Reactions:
For suggestions;
I would just bring back EU4's colour for Croatia & Naples. Switched colours between Albania and Serbia. Made Bulgaria dark green and Bosnia less bland yellow.
 
  • 7
  • 3Like
Reactions:
considering moldavia is gonna spawn in 1340 (only 3 years after game start), i think it's better to have them at the start of the game so that you can start the game playing with moldavia. it would be pretty weird to have to wait 3 years just so that you can play them.
maybe have an event for neighbouring countries or the golden hoard that let's you switch to them when they form
 
  • 4
Reactions:
My suggestion is, if you go with Aetolia and Acarnania, Attica kai Beotia you could change them to Aetoloacarnania and Atticobeotia which are commonly used in modern greek times.
That is, if you want to get rid of the "and".
 

Attachments

  • Provinces.png
    Provinces.png
    2,4 MB · Views: 0
  • 4Like
Reactions:
I could get behind the idea of Wallachian and Transylvanian being separate cultures only if, once Moldova is estabilished through a series of events, their culture will also change from Wallachian to Moldavian. I think having the 3 cultures separate, Wallachian, Moldovian and Transylvanian, would end up in an interesting scenario. It would be pretty much the same thing done all other cultures in past maps. Besides this, I think that Transylvanian should extend more than it does in this map, and that Wallachian/Moldavian culture should be less predominant in the lands of Moldavia. Some provinces could also benefit from being split into 2, or in some extreme cases, three.
 
  • 5Like
  • 3
  • 3
Reactions:
I'm hoping Ragusa is fully independent, because they were at the time and all the way until early 19th century. In 1337 they only paid a small tribute to Venice. Also, their color is way too similar to that of Venice, their big rival.
 
  • 6
  • 1Like
Reactions:
General request: could you make Bulgarian, Greek and Turkish culture colours more different?
Good suggestion, we'll most likely do it.
 
  • 58Like
  • 4
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I think they're just going for as granular as possible. They split the French cultures into like 10+ and they split Czech into Bohemian and Moravian, which to me, as a Czech, also looks jarring and makes no sense. The description says they divided them based on dialects.
Yeah I think they’re doing this because as far as we’ve seen they have no mechanical way to spawn new cultures in the middle of the game but a small culture can always be integrated and wiped out.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions:
I am once again most humbly requesting you make the Byzantine Empire more akin to the map color it has in CK3.
or at the very least flip its color here with that of Cephalonia, that purple really doesn't suit it

Also the Chalkidiki peninsula does not traditionally include the city of Thessaloniki, that province should probably be renamed to that instead


Also also, Tripolitsa in Byzantine times was called Drompolitza, Demetrias/Volos was called Golos, and Clairence/Glarentza was far more prominent than Andravida in Achaea at the time
 
Last edited:
  • 6Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I know what i'm about to suggest is probably minor, but i implore you to change it as i tuink that every single bit is important to make a fully functioning masterpiece.

About the location of Ravno, it was a settlement/small fort built very near the river Great Morava, to be more precise upon the entrance of the river Ravanica into that river. These lands were/are rather fertile and the place previously served as a granary "Horreum Margi" for the romans. It was destroyed in the fifth century by Hunnic conquests, only for it to once again serve as foundation for a settlement.

It is pretty much a pretty wide valley sandwiched between the Serbo-Macedonian massif(hills) and the Balkan mountains(slowly rising into tall mountains). The land was filled with trees and quite dense forest, but it was by no means hill.

The name ravno means flat. It was, and still is a flat valley. Otherwise, it is correct. Thank you for reading all of that if you've reached this far..
TL;DR: Ravno is not anything else except flst. It is flatland. Flat.
Attached to the message is the picture of the town where ravno used to be. As you can see, swamp forest around the river, elswhere forest and flatland.
 

Attachments

  • Ćuprija_odozgo.jpg
    Ćuprija_odozgo.jpg
    2,8 MB · Views: 0
  • 6Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Great map as always! Here's some suggestions from a friend who's very knowledgeable on the region:

Peć, not Peč
ăĂ not ǎǍ
Dubočica, not Glubočica
Spelling ηΗ as iI but then retaining αι as -ai- is inconsistent
Borui/Boruy, not Boruj
Harsovo/Hirsovo, not Hârşova (for the period at least)
Tulitsa, not Tulcea (for the period)
Shkodër or Skadar, not Shkoder
lots of places in Thrace are missing an accent in Greek (so Roúsion instead of Rusion) for some reason
 
  • 5Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Couple of points after glancing over the map of Transylvania:
1. Koloszvár is spelled Kolozsvár
2. I believe Korosbanya should be Kőrősbánya, unless the accents are only missing because of the zoom level. Korosbanya would mean old hag, while Kőrösbánya means Kőrős mine, named after the Kőrös river.
3. While my heart skipped a beat to see my hometown represented as a location, Kézdivásárhely in the southeastern corner is a bit anachronistic for the time period, it should be named Torjavására and maybe change name through a DHE later.
4. Are the naming inconsistencies between Romanian, Hungarian and German intentional, or would you like input on those too?

Calling the Transylvanian Saxons as Transylvanian Germans feels a bit weird, and calling the Romanian population of Transylvania Transylvanian seems also wrong. I am by no means knowledgeable on the subject, but I don't think there ever was enough difference culturally between Romanians living in Transylvania and Romanians living outside the Carpathian Basin to warrant splitting them into multiple cultures. Not to mention Transylvanian and Transylvanian German/Saxon next to each other of awfully confusing to read on the map too.
I giggled at Korosbanya lmao
 
  • 8Haha
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions: