Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

[Pavía]

Lovely map as always. What are the two different shades of blue stripes in the Peloponnese? Wallachians down there?

Sclavenes.

 

[Pavía]

Hey, it seems Empire of the Romans starts with a solid road across it.

View attachment 1158656

Oh, you've spotted the Via Egnatia?

 

[Pavía]

It was a fairly small minority, but will the Carpathian Germans in Upper Hungary be represented in game?

Yes, we have Carpathian Germans represented.

 

[Pavía]

Hello! I have a question... It is not necessarily related to this TM, but rather TM#4, sorry for that.

Since Poland and Baltic region is going to be reviewed for some more time, I wanted to ask, is there a releasable country "Lauenburg and Bütow Land", from the locations of Lębork (Lauenburg) and Bytów (Bütow)? It is holds importance to me, so I wanted to know if it will make an appearance in Project Caesar...
And if it is not implemented yet, can I post some info about it in the TM#4 thread, will it still be relevant?

Feel free to post there that, yes.

 

[Pavía]

And what are the intentions for default location names? So that we would know whether to correct inconsistencies or are they as intended.

The default will most likely be 'Wikipedia standard' (that means, either English or their current endonym). There might be some exceptions for this, of course, but we also want to have a game rule set for 'full English' play, if some players prefer that to the cultural dynamic names. Feel free to post inconsistencies, and we will try to have them incorporated.

 

[Pavía]

Is Thasos marble? I can't quite read it, but if it isn't it definitely should be.
I'm also surprised at how seemingly passable the Pindos mountains are. I've driven through the area a few times and thems some big mountains.

Yes, it's marble.

 

[Pavía]

Finally a point I already made in a separate thread. I think the locations in the Kingdom of Hungary, Moldavia and Wallachia are absolutely massive compared to every single surrounding area. I think it looks absolutely atrocious.

The reason I think in the case of the Kingdom of Hungary is that you have chosen the counties as locations. Thats I think a very bad decisions - the counties should be the provinces. There never existed a somogy province encompassing all of southern Transdanubia. Somogy county was your Segesd and Somogyvár location.

I suggest a rework of the kingdom of Hungary based on this map depincting the Kingdom during the reign of Louis I (1342-1382):
View attachment 1158678

Edit: I want to stress that I want province sizes and density comparable to Poland and Serbia. Absolutely not Germany or Italy.

Citing myself:

A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome.

Thanks for the feedback, nonetheless.

 

[Pavía]

Hi @Pavia, I'm wondering if the southeastern part of the Holy Roman Empire (Austria and Slovenia) will be considered part of the presentation of the Holy Roman Empire Tinto maps? In the event that yes, I would not mind commenting on this area and making suggestions in this tread, I would prefer them when this is addressed. Otherwise, the maps look good, maybe only Hungary does not have the same density of provinces compared to the Balkans, and the colors of the cultures of Bulgarians, Greeks and Turks are indistinguishable. Maybe I would give the Bulgarians light purple, the Greeks light apricot, and the Turks light teal.

Yes, it will be part of the HRE Tinto Maps.

 

[Pavía]

Question, are the balkans involved in any situation at the start of the game or will they be involved in any?

It mostly depends on the Ottomans...

 

[Pavía]

Do y’all still look over old tinto talks and tinto maps or just the latest ones?

We'll stop when we consider a region 'reviewed', although we still lurk from time to time, in case a useful comment appears.

 

[Pavía]

I commented before too but I'm posting again to note the presence of a Jewish community that should exist in the city of Ioannina, granted religious freedom by chrysobull of Emperor Andronikos II a couple decades before the game's start.

There are 771 Romanyoti Jews in Ioannina (3.5% of the population).

 

[Pavía]

Why are there two Bavarian cultures

Double the problem.

 

[Pavía]

Good stuff! May we perhaps see a little glimpse of the Caribbean at some point?

One day, yes.

 

[Pavía]

This is a problem in other games too, I just assumed that the letter ő is not in the paradox alphabet.

We have it in Project Caesar, there is a Küküllővár location present on the map, in Transylvania.

 

[Pavía]

For Carpathian germans I would suggest: Zipser
A wiki article:

Zipser Germans - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And for the Transylvanian ones: Siebenbürger

If you are able te get better names for the Baltic and Silesian Germans, we might have a deal.

 

[Pavía]

There were also small groups of German miners in Kosovo and Bulgaria. Not many, but they greatly boosted the local economies.

There are also Transylvanian Germans in Srebrenica, Budimlja, Mitrovica, and Novo Brdo.

 

[Pavía]

Will red Ottoman Empire be a thing that starts with this game or will they keep their green regardless? Also, will flags be changed to fit country colors like how the Venetian flag was changed to be blue?

1. It will most likely stay as green.
2. We're doing the flags for this game as historically as possible; our flag artist is great, by the way!

 

[Pavía]

A few things I noticed regarding locations in modern Serbia borders, from north to south:

1. Change Zenta to Subotica (don't know the Hungarian name), Subotica is more important and one of the bigger cities in Vojvodina
2. Can't read the location name above Kovin, west of Timisoara, what is it?
3. Kovin is even today a small town, not bigger than 10k inhabitants, better to change it to Pančevo (wiki link - Pančevo was first mentioned in 1153 and was described as an important mercantile place)
4. Debrc is a small village south of the Sava, only known because of a medieval church and nothing else. The location should either be changed to Novi Sad, or Srem (Syrmia, Szerem), as Srem is geographically right in between Sava and Danube
5. Instead of Jagodina (not sure if it is, but looks like it), place Kragujevac, it was a settlement already settled by the end of 12th century
6. Ravno - first time hearing of this, Zaječar much better suited, 3 Roman emperors were born there
7. Trgovište - not to be confused with Romanian Targoviste, Ras or Raška would be much much better
8. Peč should be Peć
9. Glubočica can be Leskovac instead, Leskovac is just center of the area. If not, then Dubočica is most commonly used

Provinces:

1. Donji-Kraji sounds very unnatural, maybe just Krajina?
2. Usora and Soli - Slavonija?
4. As per the current locations - Syrmia - existing + Debrc, Mačva - Krupanj, Valjevo, Gradac, Belgrad, Šumadija - Smederevo, Rudnik, Jagodina, Žiča, Braničevo - existing + Stalać, Niš - existing + Kruševac, Toplica can be scrapped
5. Podrinje can be renamed to Hercegovina
6. Serbian / Slavic version of Illyria is Ilirija

2. It's Nagybecskerek (Zrenjanin).

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Pavía]

Just curious if there are/will be Slovak variation names for Hungarian and other locations?

Also wouldnt it make sense to "extend" the range of Mountains type locations just a bit more west towards Trenčín, and similarly make some mountains into hills in eastern Slovakia ?

Not currently, but potentially we could add them, yes.

 

[Pavía]

Are there "Arvanites" pops in southern Greece? An albanian group that settled in Greece around 1300s-1400s and their language is still preserved today in many communities in Attica, Boetia and Peloponnese.

Also some greek islands were said to be Arvanites-majority at some point

Yes, there are.