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Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
Countries.png

Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
Locations 1.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
Religion.png

This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
Markets.png

The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
Population 1.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
 
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That IIRC the're the Maniots, a sub-group of greek peoples that inhabited the peninsula of Mani.
No, they're not, Mani is the middle peninsula. The green thing on the western peninsula is Venetian.

That being said, Mani was basically an independent pirate republic at the time, I'd love to have it portrayed as thus.

I'm sure I've got a book about their history, will probably look up the 14th-15th century stuff during the weekend.
 
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Spelling mistakes with hungarian province and location names:
Provinces:
Maramaros. Correct one: Máramaros.
Bácsa. Correct one: Bácska
Locations
Györ. Correct one: Győr
Jakeb-Szállása:. Correct one: Jakabszállás
Koloszvár. Correct one: Kolozsvár
Korosbánya. Correct one: Körösbánya
 
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Hello There! I'm wandering how location boarders are shaped/designed with respect to nations which exist later in "Project Caesar's" timeframe.

i.e. for countries such as the German Empire & Austria-Hungary be able to have their beautiful historical borders recreated accurately?

I saw another comment regarding Opole (IIRC) and it's shape, for example.

Cheers!
 
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this doesnt match some ancient descriptions of the region . if the Huns and magyars loved that plateau it was because it was to them like the great steppes south of Russia and kazakhstan .
if it was a true swampfest no nomadic tribe would ever care about it yet this region + south Russia and ukraine are the 3 regions most preffered by nomads for having enough flat lands for their horse cultures
Respectfully disagree, we have actual evidence of large areas along the Tisza and Danube being seasonal swamps, just like how great areas of the Pontic Steppe are also wetlands, along the great rivers
 
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Can't wait to work on a location suggestion for my own region, but as a first piece of general feedback, the population of Serbia, Bosnia and especially Bulgaria seem far too low.

The below is an academic paper by Čedomir Antić (one of the most respected historians in Serbia), which you can Google translate. Key findings:

-Bulgarian population just before the Ottoman conquest was ~2.6 million people. This is more or less within the exact borders shown here, but would be a significant increase.

-Serbia in 1390 had 670k-800k people, but that was in the borders of Prince Lazar's Moravian Serbia - so, not including Montenegro, Macedonia (densely populated before Ottoman conquest) and most of Kosovo (population about 75 000, under Vuk Branković) or Raška. Given the additional regions owned in 1337, and it predating the Black Death and the early Ottoman conquests, the population of Serbia should also be higher than 900k, probably in the 1.2-1.5 million at least (depending on the population of Macedonia)
Moravian_Serbia.png


The population of Bosnia on the other hand (in slightly larger borders, tho I think the population estimates excludes Dalmatia), is given as 500-600k. Though Bosnia hasn't yet suffered as much from Ottoman invasions by 1390, this also feels like it warrants a population increase in 1337, to ~0.45-0.5 million.
800px-Bosna_1390-1.jpg


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...IQFnoECBIQBg&usg=AOvVaw1J2r7SHSqh7AgPHkPpRCBY - the link to the paper "ИСТОРИЈСКИ ПРЕГЛЕД ДЕМОГРАФСКИХ
ТЕНДЕНЦИЈА СРПСКОГ НАРОДА", as I can't upload a PDF file
 
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Finally a point I already made in a separate thread. I think the locations in the Kingdom of Hungary, Moldavia and Wallachia are absolutely massive compared to every single surrounding area. I think it looks absolutely atrocious.

The reason I think in the case of the Kingdom of Hungary is that you have chosen the counties as locations. Thats I think a very bad decisions - the counties should be the provinces. There never existed a somogy province encompassing all of southern Transdanubia. Somogy county was your Segesd and Somogyvár location.

I suggest a rework of the kingdom of Hungary based on this map depincting the Kingdom during the reign of Louis I (1342-1382):
View attachment 1158678

Edit: I want to stress that I want province sizes and density comparable to Poland and Serbia. Absolutely not Germany or Italy.
What do you think about the suggestion by @Fehervari in his thread:

I assume he will also post it here, but I wanted to highlight that someone has already made a redrawing of locations and provinces.
 
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Do y’all still look over old tinto talks and tinto maps or just the latest ones?
We'll stop when we consider a region 'reviewed', although we still lurk from time to time, in case a useful comment appears.
 
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I commented before too but I'm posting again to note the presence of a Jewish community that should exist in the city of Ioannina, granted religious freedom by chrysobull of Emperor Andronikos II a couple decades before the game's start.
There are 771 Romanyoti Jews in Ioannina (3.5% of the population).
 
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We didn't have the proper tools to portray them correctly, I think. Maybe we could have them, but there are a couple of things that we'd need to have first, and I'm not entirely sure if we'll get them.
The problem with romani pops are that they are practically nomadic, not a settled population.
 
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Good work with the map.
 
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View attachment 1158688\
Staničenje is a village mere kilometers from Pirot, and it was definitely in Bulgarian hands after 1330. Would be extremely bizarre for it to have been under Bulgarian control yet not Pirot. Serbian source, by the way.
Once again Momchilo is recorded to own Pirot, also you have records of the city he built as being part of Serbia after 1330,along with during Lazar's rule, since there we no wars between Serbia and Bulgaria in middle ages since 1330, there no reason to belive that Bulgaria owned the city after 1330. Border was slighly west of Pirot, but that is a dumb logic. Serbia owned Radomir (few km from Pernik) does that mean that Pernik was Serbian?
fsdjihjfds.png
 
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