Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

[Dewit]

Maastricht is absolutely in hilly terrain, there were a million people in the Low Countries thread pointing that out, so it was changed.

it really is not though, there are some sporadic and honestly flat hills here and there around Maastricht but not like around Aachen or south of Liege.

 

[Antimonum]

Aargau location seems to have the modern Borders of the canton (established by Napoleon).

In the 13 hundreds: Northeast part of Aargau location west of the Aare Confluence with Rhein should be a different Location called Frickgau. the East of the Aare Confluence should be Baden Location (not Baden Baden in Germany), as Part of the Zürchgau Province. Southwest Part of Aargau was a princeless Imperial Administration location ruled by the peasants called Freiamt with most important City of Bremgarten (I Think it should be a separate State because of that). Luzern was indeed part of Aargau at that time. As for the rest of Aargau location it should be called Lenzburg (an important castle). Aargau should be only be the bigger Province name without the city of Baden.

 

[ArcticKnight]

Hello,

as I promised to make my proposal for the southeastern part of the Holy Roman Empire, now it is here! There are some changes from the last proposal, as I additionally reviewed the political situation of each location separately. I've added population and culture suggestions.I have taken population numbers from previous Tinto Maps and taken into account the absolute value of provinces or areas. In the event that the values change, I would preserve the relationship between the cultures and increase the number of inhabitants by just a factor, because I recently found out that the modern borders of Slovenia in 1300 should have had from 450,000 to 600,000 inhabitants, which they now have in the game somewhere approx. 250,000. I hope that my efforts have paid off and that at least some of this will be taken into account.


Map of Locations, Provinces and Areas

View attachment 1168072


Political Map

View attachment 1168071View attachment 1168180


Map of Goods

View attachment 1168070


Map of Topography

View attachment 1168069


Map of Vegetation

View attachment 1168068


Localisation, Ownership, Goods, Population and Culture table.

Area	Province	ID Loc.	Location	Owner	Goods	Population	Cultures
Dalmatia/East Adriatic	Istria
	25.500​	1​	Pola (Ita.), Puola (Ist.), Pula (Cro.), Pulj (Slo.)	Republic of Venice	Wine	4.900​	Istriot (Dalmatian) 50%, Croatian 30%, Venetian 20%
		2​	Albona (Ita.), Labin (Cro., Slo.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	Coal	2.500​	Croatian 50%, Rumerian 50%
		3​	Pisino (Ita.), Pixin (Ven.), Pazin (Cro., Slo.) Mitterburg (Ger.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	Olives	4.200​	Croatian 60%, Rumerian 40%
		4​	Rovigno (Ita.), Ruvèigno (Ist.), Rovinj (Cro.), Trebinje (Slo.)	Republic of Venice	Fish	4.700​	Istriot (Dalmatian) 45%, Croatian 35%, Venetian 15%, Slovenian 5%
		5​	Capodistria (Ita.), Koper (Slo.), Kopar (Cro.)	Republic of Venice	Salt	5.300​	Istriot (Dalmatian) 60%, Slovene 20%, Croatian 10%, Venetian 10%
		6​	Piquentum (Ita.), Buzet (Cro., Slo.), Blzet (old Cha.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Fruit	3.900​	Slovenian 40%, Croatian 35%, Rumerian 25%
	Lika
		74​	Fiume (Ita., Hun.), Rijeka (Cro.), Reka (Slo. Cha.)	Lords of Duino	Wool	8.700​	Croatian 90%,Dalmatian 10% (most Burgh.)
Friuli	Trieste
280.100​	39.900​	7​	Trieste (Ita.), Triest (Fri. Ger.), Trst (Slo.)	Commune of Trieste	Horses	15.000​	Slovenian 75%, Friulian 25% (most Burgh.)
		8​	Duino (Ita.), Devin (Slo.), Tybein (Ger.)	Lords of Duino	Lumber	7.400​	Slovenian 95%, Friulian 5% (most Burgh.)
		9​	Aquileia (Ita.), Olee / Acuilee (Fri.), Oglej (Slo.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Wheat	17.500​	Friulian 90%, Slovenian 10% (most Comm.)
	Friuli
	202.300​	13​	Cividale (Ita.), Cividât (Fri.), Čedad (Slo.), Altenstsdt (Ger.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Wine	10.500​	Friulian 60%, Slovenian 40%
		14​	Udine (Ita.), Udin (Fri.), Videm (Slo.), Weiden (Ger.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Wheat	61.500​	Friulian 100%
		14A	Latisana (Ital.), Tisane (Fri.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Salt	23.400​	Friulian 100%
		15​	Gemona (Ita.), Glemone (Fri.), Humin (Slo.), Klemaun (Ger.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Livestock	21.100​	Friulian 90%, Slovenian 10% (most Comm.)
		17​	Spengenberg (Ger.), Spilimbergo (Ita.), Spilimberc (Fri.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Livestock	33.500​	Friulian 100%
		18​	Pordenone (Ita.), Pordenon (Ven., Fri.)	House of Habsburg	Wine	28.600​	Friulian 65%, Venetian 35%
		19​	Portogruaro (Ita.), Porto (Ven.), Puart (Fri.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Wheat	23.700​	Friulian 75%, Venetian 25%
	Carnia
	37.900​	16​	Tolmezzo (Ita.), Tumieç (Fri.), Tolmeč (Slo.), Schönfeld (Ger.), Schunvelt (Tim.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Copper	25.400​	Friulian 80%, Timavese (Southern Bavarian) 10% (most Comm.), Slovenian 10% (most Comm.)
		16A	Forni di Sopra (Ital.), For Disore (Fri.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Stone	12.500​	Friulian 100%
Carniola	Gorizia
128.300​	21.200​	10​	Gorica (Slo.), Gorizia (Ita.), Gurize (Fri.), Gorisia (Ven.), Görz (Ger.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	Clay	12.300​	Slovenian 84%, Friulian 15% (most Comm.), Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		11​	Idrija (Slo.), Idria (Ger., Ita.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Mercury	2.500​	Slovenian 100%
		12​	Tolmin (Slo.), Tolmino (Ita.), Tolmein (Ger.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Livestock	6.400​	Slovenian 100%
	Oberkrain
	39.700​	20​	Ljubljana (Slo.), Laibach (Ger.), Lubiana (Ita.)	House of Habsburg	Wheat	9.200​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		21​	Kamnik (Slo.), Stein (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Stone	7.700​	Slovenian 98%, Southern Bavarian 2% (most Burgh.)
		22​	Kranj (Slo.), Krainburg (Ger.)	House of Ortenburg	Stone	10.600​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		23​	Bled (Slo.), Veldes (Ger.)	Prince-Bishopric of Brixen	Iron	7.000​	Slovenian 100%
		24​	Škofja Loka (Slo.), Bischoflack (Ger.)	Prince-Bishopric of Freising	Iron	5.200​	Central Bavarian 45%, Slovenian 35%, Southern Bavarian 20%
	Innerkrain
	25.700​	25	Postojna (Slo.), Postumia (Ita.), Adelsberg (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Timber	11.500​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		25A	Cerknica (Slo.), Zirknitz (Ger.), Zirconio (Ita.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Fish	8.500​	Slovenian 100%
		26	Prem (Slo., Ger.), Primano (Ita.)	Lords of Duino	Wool	5.700​	Slovenian 100%
	Mitterkrain
	14.300​	27	Ribnica (Slo.), Reifnitz (Ger.)	House of Ortenburg	Timber	9.000​	Slovenian 98%, Southern Bavarian 2% (Comm. and Burgh.)
		27A	Lož (Slo.), Laas (Ger.)	House of Ortenburg	Timber	4.800​	Slovenian 98%, Southern Bavarian 2% (Comm. and Burgh.)
		28	Mahovnik (Slo.), Mooswald (Ger.) *	House of Ortenburg	Wild Game	500​	Slovenian 100%
	Unterkrain
	27.400​	29​	Kostanjevica (Slo.), Landstraß (Ger.) **	House of Habsburg	Wine	11.400​	Slovenian 98%, Southern Bavarian 2% (Comm. and Burgh.)
		30​	Metlika (Slo., Möttling (Ger.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	Clay	10.500​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		31​	Višnja Gora (Slo.), Weixelburg (Ger.)	Prince-Bishopric of Gurk (Salzburg vassal)	Livestock	5.500​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
Styria	Sanntal
263.600​	32.000​	32​	Celje (Slo.), Cilli (Ger.)	House of Cilli	Wheat	13.700​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		33​	Brežice (Slo.), Rann (Ger.)	Prince-Bishopric of Gurk (Salzburg vassal)	Sand	11.100​	Slovenian 99%, Southernl Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		34​	Schönstein (Ger.) Šoštanj (Slo.)	House of Cilli	Coal	7.200​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
	Drauwald
	48.100​	35​	Marburg (Ger.), Marprk (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Wine	12.700​	Slovenian 88%, Central Bavarian 10% (Comm. and Burgh.), Jewish 2% (Burgh.)
		36​	Ptuj (Slo.), Pettau (Ger.)	Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg	Wheat	12.000​	Slovenian 98%, Central Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.), Jewish 1% (Burgh.)
		37​	Bistrica (Slo.), Feistritz (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Fruit	11.300​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		38​	Slovenj Gradec (Slo.), Windischgrätz (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Livestock	5.000​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
		39​	Ivnik (Slo.), Eibiswald (Ger.)	Lords of Duino	Iron	7.100​	Slovenian 50%, Southern Bavarian 50%
	An der Mur
	72.000​	40​	Gradec (Slo.), Graz (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Wool	14.300​	Central Bavarian 100%
		41​	Voitsberg (Ger.), Vojčperk (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Coal	5.100​	Southern Bavarian 100%
		42​	Lipnica (Slo.), Leibnitz (Ger.)	Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg	Stone	4.500​	Southern Bavarian 90%, Slovenian 10% (most Comm.)
		43​	Weiz (Ger.), Vides (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Silver	14.300​	Central Bavarian 100%
		44​	Fürstenfeld (Ger.), Fölöstöm (Hun.), Knežje Polje (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Timber	27.900​	Central Bavarian 100%
		45​	Feldbach (Ger.), Vrbna (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Wheat	5.900​	Central Bavarian 100%
	Mürztal
	21.500​	46​	Bruck an der Mur (Ger.), Most ob Muri (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Timber	12.700​	Central Bavarian 100%
		48​	Mürzzuschlag (Ger.), Muriška Slaka (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Livestock	8.800​	Central Bavarian 100%
	Murtal
	54.100​	49​	Leoben (Ger.), Ljuben (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Iron	20.100​	Central Bavarian 100%
		50​	Judenburg (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Coal	9.000​	Southern Bavarian 95%, Jewish 5% (Burgh.)
		51​	Zeiring (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Silver	6.500​	Southern Bavarian 100%
		52​	Oberwölz (Ger.)	Prince-Bishopric of Freising	Wheat	12.800​	Southern Bavarian 100%
		53​	Murau (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Iron	5.700​	Southern Bavarian 100%
	Ennstal
	35.900​	54​	Liezen (Ger.), Lucen (Slo.),	House of Habsburg	Salt	14.100​	Central Bavarian 100%
		55​	Rottenmann (Ger.), Črmljen (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Livestock	12.300​	Central Bavarian 100%
		56​	Gröbming (Ger.), Grebin (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Iron	9.500​	Central Bavarian 100%
Carinthia	Mittelkärnten
113.000​	30.300​	57​	Celovec (Slo.), Klagenfurt (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Livestock	11.500​	Slovenian 75%, Southern Bavarian 25%
		58​	Sankt Veit (Ger.), Sveti Vid (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Stone	5.800​	Southern Bavarian 85%, Slovenian 15%
		59​	Breže (Slo.), Friesach (Ger.)	Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg	Marble	2.500​	Southern Bavarian 95%, Slovenian 5%
		60​	Krka (Slo.), Gurk (Ger.)	Prince-Bishopric of Gurk (Salzburg vassal)	Timber	3.700​	Southern Bavarian 100%
		61​	Trg (Slo.), Feldkirchen (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Wheat	6.800​	Southern Bavarian 65%, Slovenian 35%
	Unterkärnten
	19.300​	62​	Wolfsberg (Ger.), Volšperk (Slo.)	Prince-Bishopric of Bamberg	Iron	8.800​	Southern Bavarian 85%, Slovenian 15%
		63​	Velikovec (Slo), Völkermarkt (Ger.)	House of Habsburg	Lead	10.500​	Slovenian 99%, Southern Bavarian 1% (most Burgh.)
	Oberkärnten
	50.000​	64​	Beljak (Slo.), Villach (Ger.), Villaco (Ita.), Vilac (Fri.)	Prince-Bishopric of Bamberg	Lead	12.800​	Slovenian 75%, Friuian 15%, Southern Bavarian 10%
		65​	Spittal (Ger.), Špital (Slo.)	House of Ortenburg	Marble	8.200​	Southern Bavarian 95%, Slovenian 5%
		66​	Sovodenj (Slo.), Gmünd (Ger.)	Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg	Wool	5.400​	Southern Bavarian 95%, Slovenian 5%
		67​	Zgornja Bela (Slo.), Obervellach (Ger.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	Copper	7.600​	Southern Bavarian 95%, Slovenian 5%
		68​	Šmohor (Slo.), Hermagor (Ger.)	Patriarchate of Aquileia	Timber	9.800​	Southern Bavarian 70%, Slovenian 30%
		47​	Greifenburg (Ger.), Grabelje (Slo.)	House of Habsburg	Livestock	6.200​	Southern Bavarian 100%
	Iseltal
	13.400​	69​	Lienz (Ger.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	Wheat	8.500​	Southern Bavarian 100%
		70​	Matrei (Ger.), Mater (Slo.)	Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg	Livestock	4.900​	Southern Bavarian 75%, Slovenian 25%
Tyrol	Pustertal
	18.500​	71​	Bruneck (Ger.), Brunico (Ita.), Bornech (Lad.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	What	6.400​	Southern Bavarian 100%
		72​	Innichen (Ger.), San Candido (Ita.), Sanciana (Lad.)	House of Gorizia (Gorizian branch)	Livestock	8.900​	Southern Bavarian 100%
		73​	Taufers (Ger.), Tures (Ita.)	House of Gorizia (Tyrol branch)	Stone	3.200​	Southern Bavarian 100%

Notes:

* The area was almost uninhabited until the beginning of the 14th century, Slovenes lived in the outskirts, such as by the river Kolpa, and the rest of the area was covered by primeval forest. In the first part of the 14th century, Counts of Ortenburg began to settle the forest with Slovenes, then in the second part of the century with Germans from Carinthia and Tyrol. Kočevje (Slo.), Gottschee (Ger.) or Gətscheab (Got.) is mentioned for the first time in 1363, and before that it was called Mahovnik (Slo.) or Mooswald (Ger.).

** In year 1365 Rudolf IV, Duke of Austria established Růdolfswerde (Ger.) or Rudolfovo pristanišče (Slo.) the locals called the place Novo Mesto (Slo.) or Neustadtl (Ger.).

Ita. – Italian name

Ist. – Istriot name

Fri. – Friulian name

Ven. – Venetian name

Lad. – Ladinian name

Slo. – Slovenian name

Cro. – Croatian name

Cho. – Chakavian name

Ger. – German name

Got. – Gottscheerish name

Tim – Timavese name

Hun. – Hungarian name


Istria (Province)

In 1337, the western coast of Istria was in the possession of the Republic of Venice, before that it was part of the Patriarchs of Aquileia, Pula was appropriated in 1150, Koper in 1279 and Rovinj in 1283. Labin and Pazin were in the possession of the Counts of Gorizia (Gorizian branch), Pazin in 1342, it passed into the possession of Albert III of Gorizia (Istrian branch), as he renounced the County of Gorizia. After his death, the property passed into the hands of the Habsburgs in 1374. Labin was owned by the Patriarchs of Aquileia in 1381 and later in 1420 under the Republic of Venice. Buzet was owned by the Patriarchate of Aquileia and also became part of the Republic of Venice in 1420.

In addition to drinks (wine) and food (cheese (livestock farming), olives, fish, fruits), there were also two important raw materials in Istria. In the northwest (location of Capodistria) were or are still one of the largest salt evaporation ponds in this area, and in the southeast, in the location of Albona, there was the largest coal mine in Croatia.

The vegetation in the west of Istria is predominantly agricultural, while sparse forests dominate in the east. The topography is flat in the western part, hilly in the north and more plateau in the east.

Throughout history, Istria has been very culturally mixed, especially in 1337, it was probably very colorful. In the west, the Istriot (Dalmatian dialect or even their own language) dominated, among which the ruling culture (Venetian) was already immigrating, mostly in the form of the bourgeoisie. On the outskirts of the cities, there are already the first Slavic settlements, which are attracted by lucrative opportunities. In the north of Istria, the majority are Slovenes, and in the central part, Croats. In the east of Istria, the Rumerian culture predominates.

View attachment 1168067


Friuli (Area)

Friuli (area) was majority owned by the Patriarchate of Aquileia, which its parts in 1420 became part of Republic of Venice. The exception was Pordenone, which had been owned by the Habsburgs since 1278, but before that it had been owned by the Přemyslids. In 1508 it became part of the Republic of Venice. Next Trieste, which was an independent commune until 1382, after which it submitted to the Habsburgs. Duino was owned by the Lords of Duino, in 1399 with their extinction the property was inherited by the Walseer-Enns lords. In 1466, they also died out and the property came into the possession of the Habsburgs.

In Friuli, the production of raw materials is mostly based on food and wine production, the exception being the two smaller provinces of Carnia and Trieste. In mountainous Carnia, the largest yield of mineral raw materials is found in Tolmezzo, where there were copper mines (Monte Avanza and Timau) and the western part of Carnia was dominated by quarries. In the province of Trieste, above the city of Trieste, horses have been bred since time immemorial, and the Lipica stud farm still exists there. In the location of Duino, one of the main raw materials was wood, as it comprises part of the Karst Plateau, which was covered with an oak forest even before it was cut down to build Venice. The location of Aquileia, like most of Friuli, had wheat as its raw material. In the province of Friuli, in the south, there was one exception in Latisana, where salt was also produced.

The vegetation in the flat part was predominantly agricultural, sparsely dense in the hills, dense forest in the mountains and plateaus.

Friuli was mostly inhabited by Friulian culture, along the borders it mixed with Venetian culture in the west, in the north with Timavese (Southern Bavarian) and in the east with Slovenian culture. Venetian culture came to the Friuli cities later, when Patriarchate of Aquileia became part of the Republic of Venice, so in my proposal there is none in central locations of the area. Trieste also became Venetian during the Habsburg Empire, but before that it was Friulian. The countryside of Trieste remained Slovenian for a long time.


Carniola (Area)

Carniola was dominated by two political powers in 1337, the first, which also controlled a wider area, the Habsburgs, owned Ljubljana, Kamnik, Postojni and Kostanjevica, which they appropriated from the Přemyslids in 1276. The second was the Ortenburgs, who owned Kranj, Ribnica, Lož and Mahovnik (Kočevje). Kranj was acquired in 1102 from the counts of Weimar-Orlamünde. Ribnica was received as a dowry from the Auerspergs in 1263. Lož was acquired in 1335 and Mahovnik in 1336 from the Patriarchate of Aquileia due to a dispute, and the severance was paid with the lordships. The Patriarchate of Aquileia owned Idrija, Tolmin and Cerknica in Carniola. Tolmin and Idrija belonged to the Republic of Venice after 1420, later in 1509 they were conquered by the Habsburgs. In 1395, Cerknica was donated to the Carthusian monastery in Bistra, which was part of the Habsburg territory and thus Cerknica became part of it. The Counts of Gorizia of course owned Gorica (acquired from the Aquileian Patriarchate in 1120) and Metlika (acquired from the Aquileian Patriarchate in 1277). Metlika, in 1342, it passed into the possession of Albert III of Gorizia (Istrian branch), as he renounced the County of Gorizia. After the death of Albert III in 1374 and the failure of the Istrian branch of the Counts of Gorizia, the property passed into the possession of the Habsburgs, who then sold the property to the Counts of Celje in the same year. Smaller players in area were Lords of Duino who owned Prem (acquired from Andechs in 1248), Prince-Bishopric of Brixen owned Bled (acquired in 1004 from the Liudolfingers), Prince-Bishopric of Freising owned Škofja Loka (acquired in 973 from the Liudolfingers) and Prince-Bishopric of Gurk, which owned Mokronog, but due to the insignificance of the place I assigned them Višnja Gora, they got the property from Hemm von Gurk (1045), who was later in 1439 captured by the Counts of Celje during the war with the Habsburgs, they ceded it to them for an agreement.

In Carniola, the raw materials are a little more diverse depending on the landscape. Oberkrain was dominated by mineral raw materials, such as iron and stones, Ljubljana as a flat part, which in the south was mostly marsh, was its biggest source of food (wheat). Gorizia is also strong in terms of mineral resources, as it has a mercury mine in Idrija and clay in the Gorizia location. Tolmin is known for its dairy products. Unterkrain is last which contains mineral raw material (clay). The province is known for its wine and livestock (pork). Mitterkrain is known for its wooden products and its rugged nature, which offers many meaty "fruits". Wood as a raw material continues to be a more important resource also in the province of Innerkrain in the location of Postojna. As an interesting point, there is an intermittent lake in the east (Cerknica), which made it possible to catch large amounts of fish, or literally gather fish. The third raw material in the province was wool.

Most of the vegetation is forest, the locations of Ljubljana and Kostanjevica are more agricultural, as the topography allows. The north is mountainous, the western southern part is dominated by plateaus and karst fields at altitudes of 500 m and above. The east is dominated by hills. Only Ljubljana is a larger plain, but a large part of it is bog.

In the year 1337, Carniola was part of Slovenian culture, except in towns and markets where Germans (Southern Bavarians) were mostly present. In the southern part, there were some small pockets of the German peasant population, so that the name of the villages "Nemška vas" (German village) has been preserved to this day. In the north, or more precisely in Bischoflack, a larger colony of Germans from Bavaria (Central Bavarians) and Carinthia (Southern Bavarians) existed. The Freising bishops settled them there in the 11th century. The location with the smallest number of inhabitants, currently called Mooswald (Mahovnik), was mostly forest in 1337, except by the river Kolpa (Kupa) where a handful of Slovenes lived. It was only at the end of the 14th century that the Counts of Ortenburg settled in South Bavarians and the location was renamed to Gottschee (Kočevje).

View attachment 1168066


Styria (Area)

Styria was almost entirely owned by the Habsburgs, who had appropriated it from the Bambergs in 1246. The Counts of Celje owned Šoštanj (acquired from the Counts of Heunburg in 1322) and Celje (Žovnek was owned since 1130). Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg owned Leibnitz and Ptuj (acquired from the Kingdom of Hungary in 977), then fell back to the Kingdom of Hungary in 1479 and then returned to Salzburg again in 1511, which was then sold to the Habsburgs in 1555. Prince-Bishopric of Freising owned Oberwölz (acquired in 1007 from the Liudolfingers). Prince-Bishopric of Krka, which owned Bizeljsko, but due to the insignificance of the place I assigned them Brežice, they got the property from Hemm von Gurk (1045). The property was then acquired by the Tattenbachs in 1608 and later in 1671 by the Habsburgs. The Duino lords owned Eibiswald, which they acquired in 1325 from the Wildon lords.

There are quite a few deposits of mineral resources in Upper and Middle Styria, such as iron, silver, coal, stones and salt. When I was reading the resources, I was already on the verge that every location would have mineral resources, but in the end it was not like that. Based on the topography and the hairiness, I decided on natural raw materials (wood, livestock, wheat), Graz was especially known to produce wool. In Lower Styria, food commodities dominate, other commodities are coal (Velenje mine), sand (quartz mines in the south of location) and iron (Ivnik Mine),

The majority of Styria is a forest country with a predominant sparse forest. A denser forest is in the north above the Mura River and in Pohorje. The predominant agricultural vegetation is in the location of Graz and Pettau. The topography is very contrasting, Upper Styria has mountains and Middle and Lower Styria hills.

Styria was largely German, except in Lower Styria where Slovenes dominated. Marburg and Judenburg also had Jewish communities, especially Judenburg, which was even named after them. The western part of Early and Middle Styria contains the South Bavarian culture, as there is also a dialect border with the Central Bavarian dialect, which represents a large part of the Styrian culture. Slovenian locations also contain German burghers, just like in Carniola.

View attachment 1168065


Carinthia (Area)

In 1337, the largest landowners in Carinthia were the Habsburgs, who acquired their estates in 1276 from the Přemyslids. Prince-Archbishopric of Salzburg owns Friesach, Gmünd and Matrei. The Counts of Gorizia owned Obervellach (in 1164 from Brixen) and Lienz (acquired before 1090 from the Patriarchate of Aquileia). Prince-Bishopric of Bamberg owned Villach (acquired in 1007 from Prince-Bishopric of Brixen) and Wolfsberg (acquired in 1007 from the Liudolfingers). The Ortenburgs owned Spittal as their capital (acquired from the Counts of Lurn in 1135). The Friulians owned Hermagor, which was then owned by the Counts of Gorizia in 1342. Prince-Bishopric of Gurk, which owned Gurk, got the property from Hemm von Gurk in 1045.

Carinthia is dominated by lead (Mežica and Bleiberg) and marble, followed by iron, copper and stones. Other raw materials are wheat, livestock, wood and wool. (source)

Most of Carinthia is sparsely forested, as the higher areas have pastures, the valleys are cultivated, and the steep areas are covered with forest. Klagenfurt has the largest agricultural areas. The steepest slopes are in the southwestern part of Carinthia, and as a result, the forest there is much denser. Most of the area is mountainous, especially the western part. The east is dominated by hills and one location of with large plain which is on high altitude so that it has more of a plateau character than being a flatland.

In Carinthia, Southern Bavarians and Slovenians intermingle much more. Although the distinct national border runs along the Drava River, both cultures are found in smaller amounts on both sides. The locations which contain 5% of Slovenian culture and the Matrei location with 25% Slovenian culture (the last Slovenian colonization of Carinthia in 1300) represent the last spots of this culture, which were assimilated into German by the 15th century. A small minority of Friulian culture is also present in the Villach location.

View attachment 1168064


More general political changes later:

In 1399, after the extinction of the Duino lords, the entire Duino lordship passed into the hands of the Walseer-Enns lords. When the Walseer-Enns died out in 1466, the estate became part of the Habsburgs.

After the death of the Ortenburgs in 1420, all their property passed into the hands of the Counts of Celje. After their extinction in 1456, the entire Principality of Celje passed into the hands of the Habsburgs.

In 1363, after their extinction, the estates of the Counts of Gorizia of the Tyrolean branch were became part of the Habsburgs.

The County of Gorizia, which the Counts of Gorizia from the Gorizian branch did not lose until their extinction, passed to the Habsburgs in 1500.

very nice and informative post, thank you! I was just wondering, wouldn't it make more sense to have Austria split? since this wasn't really austria, it was Carniola, Styria and Carinthia, just ruled by the habsburg ruler who also ruled Austria. what is your opinion on that?

 

[PandeStegtePandekager]

Are the red nations below Denmark (Dithmarchen, Brema, Hamburg & Bremen) vassals of Denmark, like Schlesvig, or is it just an unfortunate coincidence?

 

[yusufho]

You've got upper alsace and lower alsace backwards here

 

[Kreigaz]

I dont know if its been suggested yet but i have some improvement for the Area in Mecklenburg Vorpommern namely Rostock and Doberan (im from there).
1. I dont know if its an indicator but in the dynasties is saw "von Rostock" in the picture. I read up on it and Rostock should have no dynasty from 1323 onwards.
2. I think you should rename the province "Doberan" to "Kröpelin". While today Doberan is the way more important city it isnt that way in the 14th century. As Doberan only go city rights around 18/19th century as it got heavily expanded by the duke of mecklenburg. Meanwhile Kröpelin has city rights since the 13th century.
3. I think you should rename the province "Gau Polabi" to just "Mecklenburg". I dont know if it gets changed dynamicly as the Mecklenburg Vorpommern Area gets more germanised but Gau Polabi seems just off to me.
4. (its more a question) will there be a certain event or possibility for Rostock to have a university early on as its one of the oldest universities of europe being founded 1419?

Edit: I read up that Rostocks main export that time was beer btw. I dont know if you want to change that to produce beer or if its rather manufactured in buildings.

 

[Inzano]

very nice and informative post, thank you! I was just wondering, wouldn't it make more sense to have Austria split? since this wasn't really austria, it was Carniola, Styria and Carinthia, just ruled by the habsburg ruler who also ruled Austria. what is your opinion on that?

It is true that the titles were administratively separate, but at that moment two Habsburg Dukes (Albert II and Otto) were in charge. Who inherited the title of Duke of Austria. It is true that from 1329 Otto was more involved in the administration of the Swabian part, but Albert II could not be physically present in three Duchies and one March at once. Unless it could be simulated that Styria, Carniola and Carinthia have their own governor and are still owned by the Habsburgs, something similar to vassalage, except that he cannot resist and can be removed whenever the owner wants.

 

[Pentabyte]

View attachment 1168569

An attempt at Swabia. Please forgive me.

1: Neckarsulm, Teutonic Order
2: Heilbronn, independent
3: Löwenstein, independent under Habsburg cadet branch
4: Schwäbish Hall, independent
5: Limpurg, independent
6: Ellwangen, independent
7: Schwäbisch Gmünd, independent
8: Heidenheim, Württemberg
9: Ulm, independent
10: Urach, Württemberg
11: Teck, Württemberg
12: Stuttgart, Württemberg
13: Backnang?, Württemberg
14: Maulbronn, independent or Palatinate?
15: Tübingen, Württemberg
16: Calw, Württemberg
17: Freudenstadt?, Württemberg
18: Rottweil, independent
19: Hohenberg or Zollern, independent
20: Baar, independent as Fürstenberg
21: Durlach, Baden
22: Oettingen, independent

There is also the matter of spelling, as Johan has said that historical spellings are prefered. Württemberg could be Wirtenberg or Wirtemberg. Calw was often spelled Calb which is how the name is pronounced. Schwäbisch Hall and Schwäbisch Gmünd were typically refered to without the Schwäbisch part.

I like your post and I think many provinces make sense, apart from Baar since it is actually located next to Donaueschingen south of Villingen. I just did a long post on introducing Fürstenberg as an independent tag, if you are interested.

 

[Chieron]

Beer is a produced good. I guess that fish is a reasonable

I dont know if its been suggested yet but i have some improvement for the Area in Mecklenburg Vorpommern namely Rostock and Doberan (im from there).
1. I dont know if its an indicator but in the dynasties is saw "von Rostock" in the picture. I read up on it and Rostock should have no dynasty from 1323 onwards.

As I wrote earlier, Rostock should just be part of the duchy of Mecklenburg, the lordship was no longer independent. And it was not really part of Denmark either.

2. I think you should rename the province "Doberan" to "Kröpelin". While today Doberan is the way more important city it isnt that way in the 14th century. As Doberan only go city rights around 18/19th century as it got heavily expanded by the duke of mecklenburg. Meanwhile Kröpelin has city rights since the 13th century.

I'm a bit torn about this. The monastery was important, also for the duchy itself. It dominated quite a bit of the area. But Kröpelin was the most important town here at that point.

3. I think you should rename the province "Gau Polabi" to just "Mecklenburg". I dont know if it gets changed dynamicly as the Mecklenburg Vorpommern Area gets more germanised but Gau Polabi seems just off to me.

Totally agree, the province names in Mecklenburg and Vorpommern are just wrong. I have a feeling that someone got that map of the March of the Billungs where the area around and south of Schwerin is marked as "Polabi" and ran with it, failing to realize that it just names the tribe in that area.

4. (its more a question) will there be a certain event or possibility for Rostock to have a university early on as its one of the oldest universities of europe being founded 1419?

Maybe the underlying conditions should give rise to a generalized event, not just for Rostock. The university being founded by the then-prosperous city rather than the duke is somewhat special. Some event with strong burghers founding a university?

Edit: I read up that Rostocks main export that time was beer btw. I dont know if you want to change that to produce beer or if its rather manufactured in buildings.

Beer is a produced good. I guess that fish is a reasonable basic good for the region, unless we want to go with a wheat/sturdy grains.

 

[MrGrindor]

My main feedback for the map is splitting up the location of Eisenach into Eisenach and Gotha.

Gotha was a fairly important location during the games timeframe. I am gonna quickly outline a few reasons of why Gotha should be included.

• Gotha was first mentioned in 775 as a village and received the city right in the middle of the 12th century. So it already existed for a long time before game start source
• Income Statements from 1378 show that Gotha was one of the most important cities in thuringia. The local lord demanded a tax of 590 Mark silve per year. source (only in german)
• In the 14th century several 4 surrounding local courts were subordinate to the court in Gotha. It was therefore a local judicial center Source page 135 (only in german)
• Gotha was positioned along vital road which meant to was actually quite prosperous due to the trade passing through source
• The Castle Grimmenstein which was part of the city was a significant fortification in the area until it's destruction in 1567. source (only in german) It was replaced in 1643 by the Castle Friedenstein which is one of the largest and earliest baroque palaces in germany ever built. source
• From 1640 till 1825 it was the residence of the duchy of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg source
• During the 17th century Gotha would become one of the earliest countries in germany to institute general compulsory education. It was established in Saxe-Gotha in 1642 source (only in german)
• In the end of the 18th century it was host to one of the first theaters in germany with a fixed ensemble source (only in german)
• Also towards the end of the 18th century it would become the center of the german publishing industry under justus perthes source, publishing books like the Almanach de Gotha which was a directory of europe royalty and nobility source
• In the early 19th century many european monarchies would be ruled by rulers tied to Gotha. A member of the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was voted to be the belgian King. Queen Victoria married Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. A member of the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha-Koháry would become the monarch of portugal through marriage in 1837. In 1887 a member of the house of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha-Koháry became the Prince of Bulgaria and later Tsar of Bulgaria

I think the city of Gotha should be represented by splitting the location of Eisenach in two. With Eisenach to the west and Gotha to the east.
The local vegetation at the time was dominated by villages and agriculture. According to a source I found there were basically no forests around the city fairly early on [Source in german p. 40]. Therefore a vegetation of either grasland of farmland would be most reasonable. In terms of population I'd recommend splitting the existing population of the location into two. Either half/half or a slightly larger amount going to Eisenach. At the start of the game Gotha was also ruled by the Ludowinger just like Eisenach, therefore the political setup will need no adjustments.

I hope you will consider my suggestion. Despite it's small size Gotha had a large impact on european history. With many former and still existing monarchies tracing their roots back to the city. Beyond that Gotha is the origin of german compulsory education, publishing industry and modern insurance. It was also a center of culture through the Ekhof theater, the writer Gustaf Freytag who resided often in the city, and the extensive ducal collection of art works.

 

[Slicer]

First of all, a lot of respect for how detailed the HRE is presented.
I would like to add something about Freiburg im Breisgau. In my opinion, the city should produce silver, as there is a relatively large silver mine in the Schauinsland (Freiburg's local mountain) that has made the city rich.
From Wikipedia: "For over 700 years, silver, lead and zinc were mined from the Schauinsland. In the Middle Ages, mining was very productive, so much so that in the 14th century a number of contractors of the Dieselmuot mine could afford to donate glass windows to the Freiburg Minster. The miners lived right next to the mines on the Schauinsland in two settlements, which were abandoned during the 16th century. The silver obtained was traded and used for minting coins. The mining tunnels are spread over 22 levels and amount to a total of about 100 kilometers (62 miles). At the beginning of the 20th century, about 250 miners were employed in the Schauinsland mines. Production ceased in 1954 due to the mine not yielding enough economy."

There is even one of the oldest mining regulations in Europe, the Dieselmuoter Bergweistum (from 1372), which regulated mining in the Schauinsland region under Count Egino III of Freiburg.

 

[peter814]

How is danish culture in Kiel not being represented (replace slavs with germans and i dont see how this would be any different compared to 1337

 

[TheDungen]

And even this is inconsistently applied, as Johan mentioned a cap of 500 m above sea level for flatlands, while the Chilterns don't even reach 300 m.

Hopefully this will be remedied with community feedback such as @SulphurAeron's impressive solution, and maybe Tinto can be convinced to introduce rolling terrain as a softer tier between flatlands and hills.

Yeah there has really been some pretty awesome feedback with regards to that. I had like 10 posts about it i my bgi reply thread basically just telling them all they were awesome but then I relaized it would get too long.

 

[aki-chan desu]

I like your post and I think many provinces make sense, apart from Baar since it is actually located next to Donaueschingen south of Villingen. I just did a long post on introducing Fürstenberg as an independent tag, if you are interested.

You are of course correct in that the town of Donaueschingen is physically south of the town of Villingen in reality. However my redrawing of the in-game map was based on my opinion that the locations were wierdly drawn to begin with, so I replaced Villingen and Tuttlingen with the new Baar location, while leaving the southern part of former Villingen open to become something else (maybe St. Blasien?).

 

[TheDungen]

I think united Niedersachsen is even more irrelevant as it is way to modern.
View attachment 1168582View attachment 1168583

Here you can see a historical division of Niedersachsen, though in the other way around. This can also be a great suggestion for division

I would prefer either choice, but proposed by you is very modern, and based on kingdom of Hannover

I don't nessecerily disagree but it being more modern is only partially true, Nidersachsen, holstein and wesphalia also very much map to the medival kingdom of Saxony.

Aren't Brandenburgish and Markish the same thing?

Yes I thought so too, I suspect it might be the german pomeranians and that cultures in this game can change name. When the slavic pommeranians go away the markish become pommeranian.

To the point of having 2 different cultures? I know that the HRE is far from united but I know that all lower german languages have a lot in common

I don't know what is the point of breaking up low saxon in low saxon, angrian, wesphalian, eastphalian and holsatian? Seems a bit to overly granular with the cultures at the moment to be honest. Also it seems they added all these to justify the fact that that had westphalian in Eu4. (Despite me arguing agaisnt it for 11 years).

maybe I'm gonna get criticized about this by half of the german speaking world... but what the f*uck is that Danube Bavarian/Southern Bavarian division?!?
To be clear I'm not saying that linguistically or culturally they have no differences or that they should be the same, but why not just divide those 2 vertically between with Bavarian(Bavaria proper, Tyrol and maybe Saltzburg) and Austrian(Austria proper, Styria and maybe Saltzburg)?
Culturally speaking they are very similar to this day just like they were in 1337(I assume that's the reason you divided it like that) but dividing it in this way makes more sense from a gameplay perspective so to not incentivize Austria to expand into Bavaria and instead consolidate the eastern lands(especially if Styria ends up being a separate tag) like they did historically and it also looks waaaay better visually to have Austria being Austrian instead of Danube Bavarian.

At least Bavarian didn't get broken up into five diffrent cultures. Unlike low saxon.

 

[Aeelie]

I see Obw. on the map in the swiss area and I would suggest to change Obwalden to Unterwalden, because that was the name of the swiss founder state in 1315, that has basically always been divided in the two Halbkantons: Obwalden and Nidwalden (Unterwalden ob den kernwald and Unterwalden nid dem kernwald). hls-dhs-dss.ch/de/articles/007409/2013-03-05/

 

[DaeJyn]

Hello,
Is there going to be events to show "cultural evolutions" like an event with the creation of the Dutch culture or another with the separation of Bavarian and Austrian culture ?

 

[Swiper]

First of all, the HRE looks amazing! While there have been some really nice proposals about the modern-day Slovenia Area, I decided to add my two-cents.
I am suggesting 4 new locations, all of which are culturally and historically significant, as well as having or receiving town status at the start of the game.

Ordered by significance (my subjective opinion), the new locations are as follows:
1. Kranj / Krainburg - the historical capital of Carniola should be a location, taking the northern part of the Ljubljana location. This solves another grievance I had previously with Ljubljana being mountainous. By splitting the province, the Kranj part can remain mountainous, and the Ljubljana part can be changed to flatlands, representing the Ljubljana basin, the largest populated area of modern Slovenia. Kranj was granted town rights in 1256 and is the 3rd largest city in Slovenia.

2. Ptuj / Pettau - an ancient town tracing its origins even before the Roman Empire, under which its population (10.000 + 30.000 surrounding) even exceeded that of London and Vienna. The town was also the home of the largest Jewish minority in the territory of Slovenia, until their expulsion by the Salzburg archbishop in 1397. In 1337, the town was in the domain of the Salzburg archbishopric, which granted it town rights in 1376. The terrain for Ptuj should also be flatlands.

3. Koper / Capo d'Istria - as its name at the time suggests (Capo d'Istria) the capital of Istria I argue that the 5th largest Slovenian town and its most significant port should be its own location. Koper was granted town rights in 1035 and was part of the Republic of Venice from 1278 to 1797. Koper was the major port on the north-eastern Adriatic until 1719, when Trieste was designated a free port by the Habsburgs. Koper even had a census before (8.000) and after the plague (1.800) giving us a rough estimate for its starting population. This location would also represent the trifecta of Slovenian coastal towns (Piran, Izola, and Koper), all of which were towns ruled by the Republic of Venice. For this reason, I would set the starting population of Koper to 10.000 and set it to urban. I would even argue it should be a trade center instead of Trieste, due to its bigger significance at the start of the game (and majority of the game-span).

4. Slovenj Gradec / Windischgrätz - the administrative, economic, and cultural center of the modern Slovenian Carinthian region, used to be a part of Styria. It was granted town rights in 1267 by the Aquilean archbishop, who controlled the town by game start.

Adding these provinces would also mitigate the issue of low Slovenian pops mentioned in previous posts which I am unable to link.


Here is the map with the added new provinces and a slightly reworked Celje-Maribor (now Maribor and Ptuj) border, based on the URN:NBN:SI:IMG-QCIFFSYT map.
1. Kranj is split from Ljubljana
2. Ptuj is split from Maribor
3. Koper is split from Trieste and a sliver of Rovinj
4. Slovenj Gradec is split from the northern part of Celje
5. I slightly extended the Gorizia province to connect it with Buzet (based on the above mentioned map)

Here is also the updated political situation with the overlayed province names (Kranj - Austria, Ptuj - Salzburg, Koper - Venice and Slovenj Gradec - Aquilea):

Sadly, I suggest we remove the Slovenia area in favour of splitting it into Steiermark and Carniola (which was composed of Upper, Inner, and Lower Carniola, which could be provinces). I also tried to make a sensible area from Istria (North-Adriatic Coast - Severno Jadranska Obala) or Istria and Lika. Not 100% on that one and open to suggestions.


RGOs and POPS based on a previous post by @Inzano and slightly modified by me.
1. Kranj: RGO: Stone / Iron POPS: 15.000 Culture: Slovene
2. Ptuj: RGO: Wheat POPS: 12.000 Culture: Slovene with Jewish minority
3. Koper: RGO: Salt / Olives POPS: 10:000 Culture: Istriot with large Slovene minority
4. Slovenj Gradec: RGO: Livestock POPS: 5.000 Culture: Southern Bavarian with large Slovene Minority

I am also inserting this to reiterate that Ljubljana and Ptuj should both be flatlands:


To summarize, I am suggesting four new provinces in the modern Slovenian area based on their historical and cultural significance as well as town statuses. This would also slightly increase the population count in the Slovenian region, which was also highlighted by other users. I hope my feedback helps and at least some of the suggestions are taken into account.

Thanks to @ArcticKnight, @Inzano, @Znikii (and others) for their suggestions in this thread. Once again, amazing HRE and hoping some of these suggestions, which I believe are realistic and in line with density of other areas are taken into account.

​

 

[Flixbube]

please fix Dithmarschens northern location border. Dithmarschen ends at the river Eider, always has. its also the border of the HRE, so its quite important.
Also as much as i love Dithmarschen, im am sure there have not been living 96k people in Dithmarschen in 1337. even today, after a lot of land-reclamation and population growth there are only 130k people living here.

 

[Palando]

While looking into a comment, regarding the location of Offenburg being rather big for a free city and being a candidate for a split, in this post:



I went down a rabbit hole on the dynasty of Fürstenberg.
I remembered that the region to the sout-east of Offenburg (the Kinzigtal) was and is still known for its silver deposits, found in the cities of Haslach (biggest city), Biberach and Prinzbach.
The City of Haslach was likely founded already in the 12th century by the Dynasty "von Zähringen" as a silver mining city with its first mentioning in 1241.
(info #dot_here# haslach #dot_here# de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/historische-fachwerkaltstadt/geschichte)
Today there is actually still an 800 year old silver mine there that you can visit.
(info #dot_here# haslach #dot_here# de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/besucherbergwerk-segen-gottes)
In the early 13th century Kaiser Friedrich II. used the silver of this region to mint coins in the close-by Offenburg.
(de #dot_here# wikipedia #dot_here# org/wiki/Offenburg#Freie_Reichsstadt)
So if you were to split Offenburg into two regions maybe consider introducing Haslach or the Kinzigtal in the South-East of it.

Then I looked into who was controlling Haslach back then and I learned about the dynasty of "von Fürstenberg" starting from 1215 stemming from the Dynasty "von Urach).
They were not unimportant in the region and while being close allies to the Habsburgs were not considered subjects of them.
(fuerstenberg-kultur #dot_here# de/geschichte-der-fuerstenberger/)
During the 1337 start date they owned the following principalities:
- Baar/Fürstenberg (inbetween Villingen and Schaffhausen)
- Haslach
- Wolfach
- Hausach
- Wartenberg
(de #dot_here# wikipedia #dot_here# org/wiki/F%C3%BCrstentum_F%C3%BCrstenberg#Bestandteile_des_F%C3%BCrstentums)

They also had control over Oberkirch until 1303 and Villingen until 1326, which they sold to Straßburg (due to being short on money) and Austria (somewhat involuntary due to revolts) respectively.
In 1488 they acquired Donaueschingen from a the "von Habsberg" dynasty (not Habsburg mind you) and made it their seat.
(fuerstenberg-kultur #dot_here# de/geschichte-der-fuerstenberger/)

HRE map of the black forest from 1400:

View attachment 1168685

Over the time they continued to acquire more and more land in south-west germany through strategic marriages and buying land.

View attachment 1168686

They survived a fairly long time in the HRE as this cutout map portraying the HRE in 1789 shows:

View attachment 1168687

Finally the Fürstentum was incorporated in large parts into Baden in 1806.
I think for that long history and the sake of more silver in south-west germany (lol) they should deserve their own tag.

So how to incorporate them into the map.
As their seat in Fürstenberg at 1337 is a fairly small location I would rather introduce the location of Donaueschingen inbetween Villingen Waldshut and Schaffhausen and give it to them from the start.
Fürstenberg is directly next to Donauesching and as the dynasty (von Habsberg) in Donaueschingen at that time does not seem all to important and seemingly died out with the acquisition of the town I think it would make sense gameplay-wise to place Fürstenberg there.
(Someone please correct me if I am wrong on the von Habsberg dynasty).
Also it would be cool to inplement Donauesching as it is the origin of the mighty Danube river.
Secondly as mentioned above I would introduce the location of Kinzigtal, south-east of Offenburg, that basically incorporates all the other principalities listed above.

Kinzigtal
Materials: Silver
Terrain: Hills, Forest, Oceanic
Population: 2000-4000 (guess)

Donaueschingen:
Materials: Wheat (Beer production since 1283) or stay with Wool
Terrain: Hills, Woods, Continental
Population: 3000-5000 (guess)

Both locations belonging to the Fürstentum of Fürstenberg.

I tried drawing them onto the location map but you or someone else might have better ideas and resources on how to shape them:

View attachment 1168689

Some additional information on that region:

Triberg was not owned by Austria until 1355 when they bought it from Hohenberg.
(triberg #dot_here# de/stadt-triberg/stadt-triberg/geschichte)

The following post mentioned that the dynasty in Baden should be changed to "von Zähringen" but that is incorrect as this dynasty died out in 1218.
The Dynasty "von Baden" does stem from the Zähringer but was its own thing since 1112, so your Dynasty map is correct.
(de #dot_here# wikipedia #dot_here# org/wiki/Haus_Baden)



As mentioned already in a post by someone else (can't find it right now), you overdid it a bit with the forest in Germany (at least in south-west germany).
Especially in the Oberrheingraben there is a fair amount of arable land.
I get the idea because there is also the black forest there so let's put some forest there.
But most of the bigger cities like Durlach, Offenburg and Freiburg are mostly in the arable depression next to the rhine river.
So please consider changing some locations to at least woods or perhabs even farmland.

View attachment 1168690

While looking into a comment, regarding the location of Offenburg being rather big for a free city and being a candidate for a split, in this post:



I went down a rabbit hole on the dynasty of Fürstenberg.
I remembered that the region to the sout-east of Offenburg (the Kinzigtal) was and is still known for its silver deposits, found in the cities of Haslach (biggest city), Biberach and Prinzbach.
The City of Haslach was likely founded already in the 12th century by the Dynasty "von Zähringen" as a silver mining city with its first mentioning in 1241.
(https://info.haslach.de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/historische-fachwerkaltstadt/geschichte)
Today there is actually still an 800 year old silver mine there that you can visit.
(https://info.haslach.de/sehenswuerdigkeiten/besucherbergwerk-segen-gottes)
In the early 13th century Kaiser Friedrich II. used the silver of this region to mint coins in the close-by Offenburg.
(https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offenburg#Freie_Reichsstadt)
So if you were to split Offenburg into two regions maybe consider introducing Haslach or the Kinzigtal in the South-East of it.

Then I looked into who was controlling Haslach back then and I learned about the dynasty of "von Fürstenberg" starting from 1215 stemming from the Dynasty "von Urach).
They were not unimportant in the region and while being close allies to the Habsburgs were not considered subjects of them.
(fuerstenberg-kultur #dot_here# de/geschichte-der-fuerstenberger/)
During the 1337 start date they owned the following principalities:
- Baar/Fürstenberg (inbetween Villingen and Schaffhausen)
- Haslach
- Wolfach
- Hausach
- Wartenberg
(https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fürstentum_Fürstenberg#Bestandteile_des_Fürstentums)

They also had control over Oberkirch until 1303 and Villingen until 1326, which they sold to Straßburg (due to being short on money) and Austria (somewhat involuntary due to revolts) respectively.
In 1488 they acquired Donaueschingen from a the "von Habsberg" dynasty (not Habsburg mind you) and made it their seat.
(http://fuerstenberg-kultur.de/geschichte-der-fuerstenberger/)

HRE map of the black forest from 1400:

View attachment 1168685

Over the time they continued to acquire more and more land in south-west germany through strategic marriages and buying land.

View attachment 1168686

They survived a fairly long time in the HRE as this cutout map portraying the HRE in 1789 shows:

View attachment 1168687

Finally the Fürstentum was incorporated in large parts into Baden in 1806.
I think for that long history and the sake of more silver in south-west germany (lol) they should deserve their own tag.

So how to incorporate them into the map.
As their seat in Fürstenberg at 1337 is a fairly small location I would rather introduce the location of Donaueschingen inbetween Villingen Waldshut and Schaffhausen and give it to them from the start.
Fürstenberg is directly next to Donauesching and as the dynasty (von Habsberg) in Donaueschingen at that time does not seem all to important and seemingly died out with the acquisition of the town I think it would make sense gameplay-wise to place Fürstenberg there.
(Someone please correct me if I am wrong on the von Habsberg dynasty).
Also it would be cool to inplement Donauesching as it is the origin of the mighty Danube river.
Secondly as mentioned above I would introduce the location of Kinzigtal, south-east of Offenburg, that basically incorporates all the other principalities listed above.

Kinzigtal
Materials: Silver
Terrain: Hills, Forest, Oceanic
Population: 2000-4000 (guess)

Donaueschingen:
Materials: Wheat (Beer production since 1283) or stay with Wool
Terrain: Hills, Woods, Continental
Population: 3000-5000 (guess)

Both locations belonging to the Fürstentum of Fürstenberg.

I tried drawing them onto the location map but you or someone else might have better ideas and resources on how to shape them:

View attachment 1168689

Some additional information on that region:

Triberg was not owned by Austria until 1355 when they bought it from Hohenberg.
(https://triberg.de/stadt-triberg/stadt-triberg/geschichte)

The following post mentioned that the dynasty in Baden should be changed to "von Zähringen" but that is incorrect as this dynasty died out in 1218.
The Dynasty "von Baden" does stem from the Zähringer but was its own thing since 1112, so your Dynasty map is correct.
(https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haus_Baden)



As mentioned already in a post by someone else (can't find it right now), you overdid it a bit with the forest in Germany (at least in south-west germany).
Especially in the Oberrheingraben there is a fair amount of arable land.
I get the idea because there is also the black forest there so let's put some forest there.
But most of the bigger cities like Durlach, Offenburg and Freiburg are mostly in the arable depression next to the rhine river.
So please consider changing some locations to at least woods or perhabs even farmland.

View attachment 1168690

The situation of ownership was rather more complicated:
The city of Donaueschingen was held by the Lords von Blumberg. The Lords von Blumberg held Donaueschingen as a fief of the Lords of Fürstenberg. So Fürstenberg held Donaueschingen already indirectly. Via inheritances after the local Blumbergs went extinct, the Fürstenbergs bought Donaueschingen to control it directly. It's therefore more than reasonable to have them start with Donaueschingen because we can't represent local lords and haven't done so in othe cases (like in Austria where local nobility held most of the cities as fiefs).

Btw, all our quotes don't really work.