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Pavía

Content Design Lead PDX Tinto
Paradox Staff
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Jan 3, 2006
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Hello, and welcome to another new Tinto Maps! I’m back to duty, after the review of Italy that we posted last Thursday, and Johan taking care of Scandinavia last Friday. Today we will be taking a look at Germany! This region comprises the modern territories of Czechia, Austria, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein. However, for most of the timeline in Project Caesar, it was better known as the Holy Roman Empire. This organization once was a feudal empire elevated from the Kingdom of the Germans, but by 1337 was mostly disaggregated into a multitude of temporal and ecclesiastical jurisdictions, with only a tenuous feudal relationship with their Emperor.

Let’s start diving deep into this nightmare, then…

Countries:
Countries.png

I’m showing here a bit more of what the region is, so you can have a clear depiction of how it looks compared to the neighboring regions we’ve previously shown (and so that the Reddit guy who is patchworking the world map has an easier day ). What I can say about this when the map speaks for itself… The lands of Germany are highly fractured among different principalities, making for an extremely complex political situation. The Emperor in 1337 was Louis IV von Wittelsbach of Upper Bavaria… Because, yes, Bavaria is also divided. He is married to Margaret of Avesnes, daughter of Count William of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeleand, while his son Louis is the Margrave of Brandenburg. But probably the strongest power of the period is the Kingdom of Bohemia, whose king John also Duke Luxembourg and rules over both lands in a personal union, while also being overlord of the Margraviate of Moravia, ruler by his son Charles, and the Silesian principalities. The third contender probably is the Duchy of Austria, ruled by Albert II von Habsburg. He also rules over some lands in the formed Duchies of Swabia and Carinthia. There are also plenty of medium and small countries all over the region, with very different forms of government, which will probably make this HRE a very replayable experience…

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The dynastical map of the HRE gives a nice picture of the situation explained in the previous one. The von Wittelsbach, de Luxembourg (John of Bohemia is considered of French culture, therefore it uses the French toponymic article ‘de’; if he would change to the German culture, then it would be the ‘von Luxembourg’ dynasty), and von Habsburg cover much of the map; you may note that the Wittelsbach rule over five different countries (Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria, the Palatinate of the Rhine, and Brandenburg); while the House of Luxembourg also control the Archbishopric of Trier through Balduin, uncle of King John. Other important dynasties, although in a secondary position, are the Welfen, von Mecklenburg, and Gryf, present in multiple countries to the north; the Askanier, who happen to control half of Upper Saxony, while the rest is in the hands of the von Wettin; and the von Görz, who rule over the Duchy of Tirol and the County of Gorizia.

HRE:
HRE.png

We obviously have to repost the HRE IO map again here. The purple stripes mark the imperial territory, while the different types of members use different colors. We currently have these divisions in the IO: the Emperor (1, dark blue), Prince-Electors (4, light blue), Archbishop-Electors (3, medium blue), Free Imperial Cities (23, light green), Imperial Peasant Republics (2, orange), Imperial Prelates (44, white), and Regular Members (280, dark green). So, yeah, that make for a total of 357 countries that are part of the HRE. And before you ask: No, we won’t talk about its mechanics today, that will happen in future Tinto Talks.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png

Locations 5.png
Germany has the highest density of locations in the world, as we wanted to portray the historical fragmentation of the HRE at the most detailed level of any Paradox GSG. There are a couple of things that we are aware of and we want to rework: the location connections (as in some places they are not obvious at all, and we want to make warfare in the HRE not impossible); and the transition between the German locations and those at their east, making it smoother (something that we will be doing in the review of Poland, Hungary and this region [e.g. for Bohemia]). A final comment: if you click on the spoiler button, you may be able to see 4 more detailed maps of the region.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Map of provinces. As usual, suggestions are welcomed.

Areas:
Areas.png

Areas. We are currently not happy with the area borders (or at least, one of our German content designers isn't, and let me note it while preparing the DD... ;) ), as they reflect more modern areas so we will be looking into an alternative setup for them with your feedback. They also currently use their German names, which will change to English ones to be in line with other areas, as usual.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain mapmodes. The region is quite forested, in comparison to other parts of Europe.

Culture:
Cultures.png

Let’s open the Pandora box and take a look at the cultures! The German cultures have come through a couple of reworks, until we’ve found a spot in which we’re kind of happy (or, at least, our German content designers do not complain!). The German cultures are very linguistically related, as we thought that it would be the best starting point for 1337. Please let us know about your thoughts on them.

Religion:
Religion.png

Boring religion map this week, as the region is overwhelmingly Catholic. There are Ashkenazi Jews in a bunch of places (a quick account: they’re present in 204 locations all over Central and Eastern Europe), and you may also see the Waldesians we added in the review of Italy last week.

Raw Materials:
Raw materials.png

Raw materials! Plenty of!

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Cologne, Lúbeck, and Prague. We have reviewed them a couple of times, and this is the configuration that makes for a good setup historical and gameplay-wise. And you may also see Bruges, which has been reinstated as the main market of the Low Countries, after some tweaks.

Country and Location Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Populations 4.png
The population of the HRE is… Fragmented. In that regard, Bohemia starts in a very strong position, with a strong competitor to its south (Austria) and north (Brandenburg).

And that’s it for today! I hope that we didn’t drive you into madness with this map… Next week we will take to a very different region, the Maghreb! See you then!
 
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SILESIA MAP FIX (Based off of the current location borders):
Duchy of Żagań should only cover Żagań, Kożuchów, and Zielona Góra locations, it looks shifted westward.
Duchy of Jawor in Jawor, Lubań locations. (Not under Bohemian vassalage.)
Kingdom of Bohemia in Głogów, Wschowa locations.
Duchy of Ścinawa in Wołów location.
Duchy of Świdnica in Świdnica, Ząbkowice Śląskie locations. (Not under Bohemian vassalage.)
Duchy of Wrocław in Wrocław location.
Rename Duchy of Oels to Oleśnica.
Duchy of Brzeg in Brzeg, Oława locations.
Duchy of Nysa in Grodków location. (Not under Bohemian vassalage.)
Duchy of Namysłów in Racibórz location. (Wrong location name.)
Duchy of Koźle in Koźle location.
Duchy of Opava (Opava, Bruntál, Krnov locations) should be independent in a personal union with Racibórz (Rybnik location, rename to Racibórz), when the former's Piast prince died in 1336 and got replaced by a Premyslid. You could make an achievement for Premyslid throne reclamation, kind of like in EU4 with Piast.
Please repost this in Tinto Maps #4 (if it's not already there).
 
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@Pavía Can you please provide a zoomed in screenshot of the locations in north and south Germany respectively? It's kinda difficult to read the location names. Thank you!
Have you checked the more detailed location maps under the spoiler button?
 
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What map or maps are used for the borders? Trier and Cologne look weirdly shaped from the maps I know.

Is Gelre supposed to be connected to its Southern Lands?
1. Too many, TBH.
2. Yes, it's connected (we already reviewed it after Tinto Maps #1).
 
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Are you willing to change some of the names. For example why Danube-Bavarian and not Austrian and likewise for southern bavarian and not Tyrolean?
We're always open to suggestions, yes. In this particular case, we discussed quite in-depth (we have a Bavarian content designer in the team, actually). We thought that the tripartite division portrayed quite well the situation in 1337, and when we discussed the naming, we agreed that this would be the more fitting/less weird, given their extent.
 
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Could you start addind region/subcontinent/continent mode screen to those posts? I'm pretty curious how it's handled in this game.
Not yet. Most of our regions are currently 'working regions' (that is, divisions to make for a smooth workflow), and we still have to balance them a bit.

Maybe when we end all the Tinto Maps, we may present all of these.
 
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Maybe it's just me but it feels like there's too many locations in the Alphes and that'd make it annoying to play and to conquer, which I get it whould be annoying to conquer it but the players might just get frustrated and the fix is to simply decrease number of locations. They're not high dev or pop to begin with so not that much of a lose. I'm sure you'll do a bunch of playtesting and will see if I'm right or not then.
We might do the German Alps a bit more functional after the review, as we did with the French and Italian areas.
 
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Why is there no Austrian culture while we already have German Prussian and German Silesian at the start? German migration to Austria started like 3 centuries earlier.
Because we think that this portrays the situation of 1337 more accurately.
 
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What is the reasoning behind Silesian German existing at the start? It was a recent migration after all
That there were plenty of German already in 1337 in Silesia, we had to portray them in a certain way, and trying to make a detailed account of their origins was not easy at all. We followed a similar approach for all the Eastern Europe Germans, for consistency.
 
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If someone makes a post about a region yet to be tentatively finalized - say, some hypothetical region called uh "Bindia", do people take a look at it or leave it till the Tinto Map feedback time?
The second.
 
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Hmmm, so I've seen this several times (Notably the Croatian Coast and the Aegean)

Can we assume that "Strait Crossings" aren't a thing?
or is it just the names not counting that as connected land
We have a task to review a bunch of straits crossing, as we made some of the regions before we had the functionality available.
 
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Very nice:D

I'm assuming the market borders will change significantly upon the promised major-river review?

Also slightly disappointed that none of the Wadden islands qualified to be its own location :p
Not necessarily, @Johan could go today and code completely different market access values for the existing rivers. But we want to do the river rework first, so we don't have to make more balance passes than those needed after that's completed.
 
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And to think that the first Tinto Maps comprised of just Low Countries. Was it a test run or only after posting it you realized that in such a speed it will take you ten years to go through the entire world map?

Also: do you have somewhere total population of HRE? At least approximate? I'm curious how it compares to other regions in Europe.
We wanted to start with a smaller region, so people could get used to the granularity of the map and the feedback workflow we wanted to implement, before going into wider regions.

I'd have to check in detail, but approximately 10-12M.
 
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noooo, don't remove locations from there, have mercy. wider Slovenia region is always crap in paradox games density wise (province density). don't make alpine regions suffer even more ;( keep the location density please :(

and Carinthia was important :c
We haven't removed any locations from there, we've just made them more clear to understand for the player. ;)
 
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