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Tinto Maps #13 - 2nd of August 2024 - Maghreb

Hello, and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps, where we assemble several maps for the shake of it (well, also to gather feedback, I guess). After the nightmarish maps of last week, we’re showing a much less fragmented region this week, the Maghreb. Let’s take a look at it, then.

Countries:
Countries 1.jpg

Countries 2.jpg

This week I’m showing two versions of the country map, one without colored wastelands, and another with them colored (please take into account that some work still needs to be done regarding the coloring of the corridors). Only four new countries are to be shown this week (as Fezzan already appeared some weeks ago). First is first, there are dynamic keys for them similar to the Mamluks, so their full name in the game are ‘Marinid Sultanate of Morocco’, ‘Zayyanid Sultanate of Tlemcen, and ‘Hafsid Sultanate of Tunis’ (Tripoli starts with a random ruler, as we weren’t able to find which was the reigning dynasty in 1337). The main power in this period is the Marinid dynasty, ruling from Fās, after grabbing the power from the Almohads almost a century ago. They start at war with the Zayyanids of Tlemcen, and its capital is close to falling to the mighty Sultan Abu al-Hasan ‘Ali. They also have a foothold in Iberia, around Algeciras and Ronda, which may lead to future campaigns about the control of the Strait of Gibraltar.

Diplomacy.jpg

And this is the starting diplomatic situation between Morocco and Tlemcen, with the capital of the latter almost surrounded by the former...

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Here we have the three main dynasties of the Maghreb in 1337, the Marinids, the Zayyanids, and the Hafsids. Apart from those, the dynasties of Tripoli and Fezzan are randomly generated, as we don’t know who was ruling in those places at that specific time.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png
Here are the maps of the locations. In the first, you may see the corridors (the non-named locations) connecting the Maghreb with the Saharan inner lands and oases. Regarding the location density, we might want to increase it in a few places (that Siṭṭāt location is too big compared to its neighbors, for instance).

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We’re open to suggestions for the provinces, as usual.

Areas:
Areas.png

The areas of the Maghreb correspond to their historical division (al-Aqṣā, al-Awsat, al-Adna, and Tripoli). The northern section of the Sahara is split in two areas, the Western Sahara, and the Sahara Oases.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Better late than never!

Cultures:
Cultures.png

The cultural division of the region is very, very interesting, we think. The first thing that I want to stress is that we’ve divided the most Arabized zones from the more traditionally Berber ones. The more Arabized cultures are the Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian, Lybian, and the Hassaniya tribe, in the western Sahara. Meanwhile, the Berber-speaking peoples are divided into Masmuda, and Sanhaja in al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā; the Zenati in al-Maġrib al-Awsat; the Kabylian, Chaoui, and Mozabite in al-Maġrib al-Adna; and the Eastern Berber (a name that we will probably change, given the feedback already received in the Egyptian Tinto Maps) in Tripoli. The Berber-speaking Tuareg and the Saharan-speaking Toubou inhabit the central Saharan Oases.

Religions:
Religions.png

Most of the region’s population practices Sunni Islam, with a very important zone where Ibadism is the majority, more or less corresponding with Mozabite and Eastern Berbers. Although it’s not shown on the map, there are two religious minorities present, the Mustaʿravi Jews, in a bunch of urban centers across the region, and some native Christians spread through al-Maġrib al-Adna.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The Maghreb is very rich in different materials, especially Morocco (which was used a long time ago as a ‘RGO-gameplay’ testing ground by our QAs). The Saharan corridor is way less productive, but it’s somehow important for the next map…

Markets:
Markets.png

The market centers of the region are placed in Fās and Al-Jazā'ir, which makes for good market access and distribution for the start of the game, in general terms. You might notice that trading happens across the corridors, which makes for a real connection between the markets to the north and south of the Sahara in 1337. This means that we can effectively simulate the trading of Saharan and sub-Saharan goods (salt, alum, gold, ivory) to the north until maybe some European countries decide to explore down the African coast and make direct trading in the Gulf of Guinea, avoiding the Maghrebi intermediaries.

Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png
The population of the region is around 5,5M, with an interesting distribution: al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā and al-Maġrib al-Adna have more or less a similar population, with al-Maġrib al-Awsat having half of them, and Tripoli and Saharan Oases being way less populated.

And that’s all for this week! The next one we will travel across the Sahara, and take a look at the region of Western Africa. See you!
 
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the Berber-speaking peoples are divided into Hassaniya
I'm assuming this a typo but Hassaniya is an Arabic dialect spoken by Arab and Arabized tribes. It should not be grouped as Berber. The majority of Mauritania + Western Sahara should be "Western Berber" speakers of the Sanhaja confederation. Whether you assign them Sanhaja culture or a unique one is up to you (I'd predict a unique one given how you separated out Mozabite and Chaoui) but they can not be Hassaniya.

On the topic of culture:
- I do not like the term Kabylian, and I'd prefer simply Kabyle.
- I am surprised to see this extent of Amazigh demographic dominance in the period, and would love to know your sources (not because I doubt you, but because it's a hard topic to find information on). However, I am surprised to see the Moroccan Atlantic plains as Sanhaja. I would have expected Masmuda, given that they presumably descendants of the Barghwata. The Middle Atlas like Khenifra, Mrirt, Azrou and so forth being Sanhaja is absolutely correct though.
- I am sure you are aware that Chaoui and Mozabite are tribally and linguistically Zenata, and you've made them separate probably for the purpose of certain tags having cores in those areas. Similarly, Kabyles are mainly Sanhaja.
- Like I said in the Levant/Egypt TM, in my opinion Tripolitanian is a more historical name for Libyan culture. Afaik the modern name of Libya was (re-)invented by an Italian in the early 1900s.
- You've painted the Eastern Zenati languages of southern Tunisia (such as Djerba and the adjoining mainland) as Eastern Berber when this is linguistically wrong. They're Zenati languages like Chaoui and Mozabite. I don't actually mind it as it's not the most important distinction in the world and they are geographically close, just wanted to make sure you guys were aware. Whatever culture they are, I think they should also be present in Madjul, where they were spoken in some small towns up until the 20th century.
- Shouldn't Zuwarah, Libya be majority Eastern Berber? It's a mainly Tamazight-speaking city even today (speaking one of those Eastern Zenati dialects I mentioned above).
- The areas around Bechar (Beccar), Timimoun and Adrar speak dialects belonging to the Mzab-Wargla group, thus Mozabite culture would probably make more sense than Zenati.

Like with the Levant + Egypt week, I have to say that your Arabic (and Tamazight) transliteration is all over the place, but I'm confident you guys are going to clean that up eventually. So, I'll just limit myself to actual errors:

- Walila should be Walili. Think this is a typo. Although, Walili/Volubilis proper was basically deserted at this point, and the nearby Moulay Idriss Zerhoun was much more relevant.
- Jarsif needs to have a G instead of J. It is pronounced with a /g/ and is variously written as ڭرسيف or جرسيف. Moroccan Arabic is inconsistent with the pronunciation of ج, it is mostly /ʒ/ but there are many words where it's /g/. Obviously the modern Latin spelling is Guercif due to French influence, but Garsif would be fine too. Just not Jarsif, please.
- The spelling of Ğelfa makes it look like you're representing /ʁ/ when it's /dʒ/. Dj or J would be better.
- It would be nice to take into account the local accents of Arabic more often. Just as you have Stif instead of Setif, Settat/Sittat could just be Sttat.
- Assuming Chaous is referring to الحوز, it's a bad transliteration. You can be creative with the vowels if you want but Ch and S are just wrong, they need to be H and Z. The standard spelling today is El Haouz.
- The historical names of El Jadida and Essaouira are Mazagan and Mogador/Amegdul respectively. I believe El Jadida especially was only invented in the 1800s.

Location suggestions:
- Dila, south of Khenifra, the center of the Zawiya d-Dila2iya.
- El Hajeb, southeast of Meknes, known in those days as Jame' el Hamam

This region is looking great! I'm very excited for West Africa, please keep up the good work!
 
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@Pavía
Have you considered sub-dividing the climate even further?? I imagine that Belarus and Russia would have way more severe winters that for example Bohemia or Hungary, and yet they are all classified as 'Continental'.. I really want climate to be a significant factor in the game as it would have been historically.. Stuff like frozen rivers in the winter and a shorter growing season for crops are things which has historically played a big part in why Russia had a harder time developing than Western Europe.. I just feel like a complex climate system(coupled with complex terrain) would be very beneficial for the game..
 
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I believe that there should be remnants of Roman Christian settlements in North Africa. There shouldn't necessarily be so many of them that they would be visible on a cultural map, but there should be. They should be in the same cultural group as the Sardinians and Corsicans.
from wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Romance
In their quest to conquer the Kingdom of Africa in the 12th century, the Normans were aided by the remaining Christian population of Tunisia, who some linguists, among them Vermondo Brugnatelli [it], argue had been speaking a Romance language for centuries.[48]

The final attestations of African Romance come from the Renaissance period. The 15th century Italian humanist Paolo Pompilio [it] makes the most significant remarks on the language and its features, reporting that a Catalan merchant named Riaria who had lived in North Africa for thirty years told him that the villagers in the Aurès mountain region "speak an almost intact Latin and, when Latin words are corrupted, then they pass to the sound and habits of the Sardinian language".[49] The 16th century geographer and diplomat Leo Africanus, who was born into a Muslim family in Granada and fled the Reconquista to Morocco, also says that the North Africans retained their own language after the Islamic conquest which he calls "Italian", which must refer to Romance.[50] A statement by Mawlâ Aḥmad is sometimes interpreted as implying the survival of a Christian community in Tozeur into the eighteenth century, but this is unlikely; Prevost estimates that Christianity disappeared around the middle of the thirteenth century in southern Tunisia.[3]
We already took a look into this, but kt has two issues:
1. We don't know where exactly they inhabited.
2. We don't know about their size, apart from most likely being a tiny minority.
 
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Tripoli would have been ruled by Muhammad ibn Thabit from 1327-1348, the dynasty was Banu Thabit (also known as Banu 'Ammar, or 'Ammarids for consistency with Hafsids etc.)

Source: Encyclopedia of Islam, Second Edition

there's also further reading and secondary sources on the "Banu Thabit" Wikipedia page, if needed
 
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I think having Sanhadja & Zenati & Masmuda while also having Kabyle & Chaoui on the map might be a tad anachronistic. It's like if you had a culture called "Romance" next to a culture called "French". Kabylia should be Sanhadji and Chaoui should be Zeneta with some Sanhadji.
 
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Very interesting TM as always! I really love the corridors between oasis locations such as 'Ayn Şalih and their capability to simulate trade between north and south of the Sahara, even if not controlled by any country. I think it perfectly fits for this place and probably other ones around the globe, it's very pleasant to have those and not just a simple unconnected huge Sahara wasteland instead.
 
3. We're aware of the debates about how to correctly name them, but we've decided upon the most common terminology in English (and if it ends up changing, we would be glad to address that, as with other people).

That's like calling the Inuit "Eskimo" or the Sami "Lapp", and grouping Chinese Muslims into "Hui".

Might have been acceptable when EU4 was developed, but not today
 
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Hi pavia I want to give my feedback:
So the berbers actually call themselves The "Amazighs" instead of berbers that's because the Greeks or the Egyptians called the amazighs berbers which possibly translates to "barbarians"
So I suggest to change the names that has the word "berber" like eastern berbers to "eastern amazigh" or amazighian
 
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I hope there will be content about Aruj and Hayreddin Barbarossa and maybe different choices depending continue piracy as independent Sultanate or joining Ottoman Empire
 
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Is Guanche culture in the same culture group as the Berber ones?

Edit: Nevermind, answered already by Pavía:
4. We've tried to portray these people in the most granular way ever in a GSG, with 9 different cultures (the 8 mentioned in the DD, plus Guanche).
 
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hmmm shouldnt Fes be one of the biggest cities on earth in this period ?
its considered one of few cities who got the title as "biggest city on earth for a period of time" and it surely did after fall of baghdad so why it only have 170k ?
fall of baghdad was not that long ago from the start date , and Fes did become like the new capital of science and knew a golden age in this time period.
 
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I believe that there should be remnants of Roman Christian settlements in North Africa. There shouldn't necessarily be so many of them that they would be visible on a cultural map, but there should be. They should be in the same cultural group as the Sardinians and Corsicans.
from wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Romance
In their quest to conquer the Kingdom of Africa in the 12th century, the Normans were aided by the remaining Christian population of Tunisia, who some linguists, among them Vermondo Brugnatelli [it], argue had been speaking a Romance language for centuries.[48]

The final attestations of African Romance come from the Renaissance period. The 15th century Italian humanist Paolo Pompilio [it] makes the most significant remarks on the language and its features, reporting that a Catalan merchant named Riaria who had lived in North Africa for thirty years told him that the villagers in the Aurès mountain region "speak an almost intact Latin and, when Latin words are corrupted, then they pass to the sound and habits of the Sardinian language".[49] The 16th century geographer and diplomat Leo Africanus, who was born into a Muslim family in Granada and fled the Reconquista to Morocco, also says that the North Africans retained their own language after the Islamic conquest which he calls "Italian", which must refer to Romance.[50] A statement by Mawlâ Aḥmad is sometimes interpreted as implying the survival of a Christian community in Tozeur into the eighteenth century, but this is unlikely; Prevost estimates that Christianity disappeared around the middle of the thirteenth century in southern Tunisia.[3]
there is already that Walili is Volibilus capital of mauretania tingitana
there is also Qusantinah in algeria who is constantine .
they only got arabised names but many of the cities in this map are roman or phoenician or punic in origin like Tanger who was founded by phoenicians around like -800Bc
 
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Hi pavia I want to give my feedback:
So the berbers actually call themselves The "Amazighs" instead of berbers that's because the Greeks called the amazighs berbers which possibly translates to "barbarians"
So I suggest to change the names that has the word "berber" like eastern berbers to "eastern amazigh" or amazighian
If they are other people that agree with me react with the thumbs up emoji
Amazigh and Berber are both acceptable in English and French. In arabic, Amazigh is more acceptable, while Berber can be considered a sort of slur. And Amazighian and Amazighs are simply gramatically incorrect, it's Amazigh and Imazighen respectively.

It's actually debated wether or not Berber actually does directly come from Greek and originally meant barbarian in practical use - I'd suggest reading Ramzi Rouighi's "Inventing the berbers" on this issue he argues that the term actually moved from an East African association with slaves to the modern berbers, and in fact the term barbar is sometimes still used to describe Nubians in Egypt and Sudan. In any case the term is more than it's etymology, and most berbers use it as a demonym today. Eastern Amazigh and Eastern berber would both be correct in this case.
 
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Are Africans/Afri (that is to say, Romanized Berbers) still a thing or were they mostly culturally Arabized/(re?)Berberized? I see some Catholic pops around Tunis (I know many Afri were Muslims though).
 
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