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Pavía

Content Design Lead PDX Tinto
Paradox Staff
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Jan 3, 2006
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Hello, and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps, where we assemble several maps for the shake of it (well, also to gather feedback, I guess). After the nightmarish maps of last week, we’re showing a much less fragmented region this week, the Maghreb. Let’s take a look at it, then.

Countries:
Countries 1.jpg

Countries 2.jpg

This week I’m showing two versions of the country map, one without colored wastelands, and another with them colored (please take into account that some work still needs to be done regarding the coloring of the corridors). Only four new countries are to be shown this week (as Fezzan already appeared some weeks ago). First is first, there are dynamic keys for them similar to the Mamluks, so their full name in the game are ‘Marinid Sultanate of Morocco’, ‘Zayyanid Sultanate of Tlemcen, and ‘Hafsid Sultanate of Tunis’ (Tripoli starts with a random ruler, as we weren’t able to find which was the reigning dynasty in 1337). The main power in this period is the Marinid dynasty, ruling from Fās, after grabbing the power from the Almohads almost a century ago. They start at war with the Zayyanids of Tlemcen, and its capital is close to falling to the mighty Sultan Abu al-Hasan ‘Ali. They also have a foothold in Iberia, around Algeciras and Ronda, which may lead to future campaigns about the control of the Strait of Gibraltar.

Diplomacy.jpg

And this is the starting diplomatic situation between Morocco and Tlemcen, with the capital of the latter almost surrounded by the former...

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Here we have the three main dynasties of the Maghreb in 1337, the Marinids, the Zayyanids, and the Hafsids. Apart from those, the dynasties of Tripoli and Fezzan are randomly generated, as we don’t know who was ruling in those places at that specific time.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png
Here are the maps of the locations. In the first, you may see the corridors (the non-named locations) connecting the Maghreb with the Saharan inner lands and oases. Regarding the location density, we might want to increase it in a few places (that Siṭṭāt location is too big compared to its neighbors, for instance).

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We’re open to suggestions for the provinces, as usual.

Areas:
Areas.png

The areas of the Maghreb correspond to their historical division (al-Aqṣā, al-Awsat, al-Adna, and Tripoli). The northern section of the Sahara is split in two areas, the Western Sahara, and the Sahara Oases.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Better late than never!

Cultures:
Cultures.png

The cultural division of the region is very, very interesting, we think. The first thing that I want to stress is that we’ve divided the most Arabized zones from the more traditionally Berber ones. The more Arabized cultures are the Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian, Lybian, and the Hassaniya tribe, in the western Sahara. Meanwhile, the Berber-speaking peoples are divided into Masmuda, and Sanhaja in al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā; the Zenati in al-Maġrib al-Awsat; the Kabylian, Chaoui, and Mozabite in al-Maġrib al-Adna; and the Eastern Berber (a name that we will probably change, given the feedback already received in the Egyptian Tinto Maps) in Tripoli. The Berber-speaking Tuareg and the Saharan-speaking Toubou inhabit the central Saharan Oases.

Religions:
Religions.png

Most of the region’s population practices Sunni Islam, with a very important zone where Ibadism is the majority, more or less corresponding with Mozabite and Eastern Berbers. Although it’s not shown on the map, there are two religious minorities present, the Mustaʿravi Jews, in a bunch of urban centers across the region, and some native Christians spread through al-Maġrib al-Adna.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The Maghreb is very rich in different materials, especially Morocco (which was used a long time ago as a ‘RGO-gameplay’ testing ground by our QAs). The Saharan corridor is way less productive, but it’s somehow important for the next map…

Markets:
Markets.png

The market centers of the region are placed in Fās and Al-Jazā'ir, which makes for good market access and distribution for the start of the game, in general terms. You might notice that trading happens across the corridors, which makes for a real connection between the markets to the north and south of the Sahara in 1337. This means that we can effectively simulate the trading of Saharan and sub-Saharan goods (salt, alum, gold, ivory) to the north until maybe some European countries decide to explore down the African coast and make direct trading in the Gulf of Guinea, avoiding the Maghrebi intermediaries.

Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png
The population of the region is around 5,5M, with an interesting distribution: al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā and al-Maġrib al-Adna have more or less a similar population, with al-Maġrib al-Awsat having half of them, and Tripoli and Saharan Oases being way less populated.

And that’s all for this week! The next one we will travel across the Sahara, and take a look at the region of Western Africa. See you!
 
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What's the reason for the huge Sevi over Fez market?
As the market center is coastal, it's easier to get market access spread through maritime presence than Fez. Take it as WIP, as market spread calculations is something in constant rebalance.
 
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How will the uncolonised/passage terrains work in the Sahara? Do countries exert control over them or just onto the locations on either side of them, similar to a strait crossing? Would be interesting to know how they impact trade and troop movement.

They appear to have both culture and religion values, is this just taken from whichever of those values makes up the largest percentage of the pops in the locations bordering them?
1. Countries can't control corridors but can control locations at each end of the corridors (thus making Saharan oases quite strategic, as they were in history.
2. Troops can move through them, if in any other location.
3. They are used for trading calculations.
4. We found while preparing the DD that there are some 'old remnants' of when they were locations, instead of corridors (and thus, they have culture and religion, but 0 pops). Those will be addressed, I already created a ticket for that.
 
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What about the canary islands? I'm guessing they hadn't been conquered/colonized by Spain yet

I only mention them because I'm not sure what other geographical region you would slot them into
They're inhabited by their native population, the Guanches. It will be shown along with the other Macaronesian islands later on.
 
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Any chance at seeing the terrain map modes?
Lol, I completely forgot them, for a reason this DD looked lighter compared to last week's HRE one... Give me 10-15 minutes, and I'll upload them, sorry.
 
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Would it be better to not have the corridors covered by wasteland (unless colonised, of course) in order to see them more clearly, or possibly make them more visible in comparison to the impassable region?
We have to make some improvements to the graphical representation of the corridors, I already created some tickets after the Egyptian Tinto Maps.
 
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I think there should be a large Andalusian diaspora in the Maghreb
Yes, I think that we're completely missing it, and we should portray they post-1267 diaspora there. I'll try to gather some sources for it. ;)
 
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I'm very curious how native/tribal nations will work. I kinda expected to see the Mzab (and other Saharan communities) be represented here. It's a very striking omission compared to eu4.
We will talk a bit more about this in a Tinto Talks in a few weeks.
 
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I love the maps so far, but I do think that this game's release would be a great time to stop calling the sub-saharan peoples, such as the Tamazight, "barbarians."
1. Technically, they would be 'on-Saharan', as they're to the north, middle, and south of the Sahara. ;)
2. We have other Saharan peoples apart from the Berbers.
3. We're aware of the debates about how to correctly name them, but we've decided upon the most common terminology in English (and if it ends up changing, we would be glad to address that, as with other people).
4. We've tried to portray these people in the most granular way ever in a GSG, with 9 different cultures (the 8 mentioned in the DD, plus Guanche).
5. This is what the description of the Berber culture group says:

"The Berber people, or Amazigh, are an ethnic group from North Africa. Their strong sense of identity clashes with the Arabic invaders that have been shaping their home regions since centuries ago."
 
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I believe that there should be remnants of Roman Christian settlements in North Africa. There shouldn't necessarily be so many of them that they would be visible on a cultural map, but there should be. They should be in the same cultural group as the Sardinians and Corsicans.
from wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Romance
In their quest to conquer the Kingdom of Africa in the 12th century, the Normans were aided by the remaining Christian population of Tunisia, who some linguists, among them Vermondo Brugnatelli [it], argue had been speaking a Romance language for centuries.[48]

The final attestations of African Romance come from the Renaissance period. The 15th century Italian humanist Paolo Pompilio [it] makes the most significant remarks on the language and its features, reporting that a Catalan merchant named Riaria who had lived in North Africa for thirty years told him that the villagers in the Aurès mountain region "speak an almost intact Latin and, when Latin words are corrupted, then they pass to the sound and habits of the Sardinian language".[49] The 16th century geographer and diplomat Leo Africanus, who was born into a Muslim family in Granada and fled the Reconquista to Morocco, also says that the North Africans retained their own language after the Islamic conquest which he calls "Italian", which must refer to Romance.[50] A statement by Mawlâ Aḥmad is sometimes interpreted as implying the survival of a Christian community in Tozeur into the eighteenth century, but this is unlikely; Prevost estimates that Christianity disappeared around the middle of the thirteenth century in southern Tunisia.[3]
We already took a look into this, but kt has two issues:
1. We don't know where exactly they inhabited.
2. We don't know about their size, apart from most likely being a tiny minority.
 
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The location of Ain Salih seems to be more white than grey on the political maps compared to the surrounding 'locations', is that an uncolonized province being distinguished from its surrounding corridor locations? If so why is the location of Timmoun dark grey like the rest of the corridors, even though it appears to be colonisable? ALSO Why do some corridors have names - like Tabelbalt, but others like the one next to it also connecting Timmoun doesn't have a name?
General answer -> game is under development.

1. The location appears colored differently because of a graphical glitch, caused when you hover over a location when changing the mapmode. It's reported, it will be fixed.
2. Tabelbalt is a location, as there's some pops (4.290 tribesmen) inhabiting it.
 
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Is there a way for us to turn off the localized names of those provinces? It seems very strange to have "Al-Magrib al-Adna" right next to "Tripoli"
Right now the areas only have one name.
 
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Here you have the Terrain maps, and I'll also just upload them to the main post (along with the 'fixed' Dynasty map); sorry for the delay:

Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png
 
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Will these names change if these countries get a different dynasty? I've been meaning to ask about dynastic tags.
We have a system allowing for dynamic country name changes depending on the ruling dynasty, but for now these countries specifically don't have it hooked to them, and use a custom name. But yes, potentially we could the 'Wattasid', 'Saadi' or 'Alaouite' Sultanates appearing
 
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How do we colonize the oasis?
As with any other regular location (please note that I'm not talking about the corridors, which are not ownable).
 
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Well, please give Seville and Fez more contrasting colours. They clash easily.
They're automatically generated (from the color of the owner of the market center, you may notice); I'll report making for a better contrast.
 
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