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Tinto Talks #30 - 25th September 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the time of the week when we give you new information about our entirely super secret upcoming game with the codename Project Caesar.

Today we will talk about how conquest works and how integrating the new locations you have conquered will work. With conquest, we are talking about how you take territory through warfare. For how the actual military campaigns work, I recommend reading Tinto Talks 22, 23 and 24.

Casus Belli
To start a war many feel that you need a casus belli for it, which we will refer to a CB for the rest of this talk. If you lack a CB and start a war you will gain some aggressive expansion and lose some stability. Now while this may not be something you may always want, it is a more lenient way to recover instead of spending precious paper mana like in EU4. However, there are multiple ways to get a CB in this game.

Now, Project Caesar does not have a ‘Fabricate Claim’ button that magically creates a CB on any nation, nor do we have a system of claims, but you have several different options to get a CB.

First of all, there is the super old school way of getting one from an event. This may not cater to everyone's playing style, as it is way too random, but if it was good enough for your parents back in 2001, it is good enough for.. Eh, n/m.

Secondly, we have the option of calling a Parliament and asking them to come up with a valid reason for war against a nearby country. This is powerful, but unless you have a high Crown Power, you may need to negotiate with your Estates for their backing. And Parliaments can not be called every month either, democracy is not even invented yet.

Finally we have the way of creating a CB, when there is a more or less legitimate way to one. First of all, creating a CB on a country requires you to have a spy network in the target country, similar to how claim fabrication works in EU4, but you also need to have some sort of reason to create the type of CB you want. If you let's say play Denmark and want to take back Skåne from Sweden, as you have cores on it, then you can create a ‘Conquer Core’ CB on them, or if they have used Privateers in sea zones where you have a Maritime Presence, you can create another CB on them. There are 50+ different CB you can create depending on circumstances, including everything from ‘Flower Wars’ for countries of Nahuatl religion, ‘Dissolving the Tatar Yoke’ for the tributaries under that International Organization, or ‘Humiliating Rivals’.

war_overview.png

31 allies and subjects for Bohemia, hmmm…

Just remember.. No CB is best CB!


War Goals
Whether you decide that a small border adjustment is needed, or you wish to wage a total war, you need to pick which War Goal you wish to pursue. Different casus belli will allow you to pick different War Goals and the War Goal you pick impacts the cost of conquest as well. A conquer CB will make taking land cheaper, while a ‘humiliation CB will make them more expensive.

A War Goal for a province requires you to occupy that entire province, while a Naval Superiority War Goal will give you a bonus score for blockading the enemy, and defeating their navy if possible.

If your War Goal is fulfilled then the warscore from it ticks up to a maximum of 25, and the total impact from battles in this game can be worth up to 50, while occupations and blockades have no cap and can reach over 100 warscore if possible.

In Project Caesar, therefore, not every war is necessarily a total war like some previous games we have made.

If the War Goal is not fulfilled, it is only possible to get 100% War Score if the winning side controls all of the losing side's locations, and the losing side controls no towns or cities.

This means that if you have your wargoal taken care of, winning some important battles and occupying some land, you will be able to force a reasonable peace on someone.

war_goal.png

Give me liberty or ehh.. annexation?


Integration
So what do you do then, when you have signed a peace and got some new land to your country?

First of all, it is not as simple as a location being a core or not, as Project Caesar introduces a new system of integration for locations. There are four states of integration in this game, first of all the conquered locations, which have a high separatism, lower control, and make pops unlikely to convert or assimilate. This is the state of any location you conquer that is not a core of yours. When a location becomes integrated, separatism drops to one fifth of the previous levels, and control has a higher maximum. When a location becomes a core, the minimum control is higher, and your primary and accepted cultures grow more, while minorities become stagnant. We also have the colonized status, which is after you have colonized a location, and it is not yet a core. A colonized location has lower maximum control.

What is separatism then? Well, it is the reduction of satisfaction for pops that are not of the primary culture. This is very likely to make the locations very unproductive for quite some time.

A location becomes a core automatically if it's integrated OR colonial, and at least 50% of the pops are of the primary or accepted cultures of that country.

core.png

It is beneficial to get your locations to become your cores…

How do you integrate a location then? Well, this is the challenge in Project Caesar, as you do not have any magic paper mana to spend on it, but instead you need to use one of the members of your cabinet to integrate it. At the start of the game, a cabinet member can integrate an entire province at once, but in the Age of Absolutism you have an advance that will let you integrate an entire area at once.

This integration is not instant, but depends on many factors, like the status and the population living in the locations affected, but on average integrating a province may take between 25 and 50 years.

integration.png

And what are all of these factors then?


Stay tuned, as in next week's Tinto Talks, we will talk about how peace treaties themselves work, and which ones we have.
 
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I assume, for modding purposes, that we can just script up various CB and wargoal types as before, except CBs rather than spelling out a specific wargoal now require a list of possible wargoals?

yeah, they are 100% scriptable.
 
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speaking of mongols can we do their tricks for war ? near 95% of mongol wars were not a mongol agression but a reaction to their envoys being killed for being too agressive and insulting . you can say its the no CB trick in asia , the japanese did same to invade korea.
i would like to have some means to trigger a diplomatic incident than just going as " no CB"
 
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Given that integrating a province can take 50 years, can we pause it, have the cabinet member do something more urgent and then return to it, or would he have to start from the beginning?

yes, it can be "paused"
 
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@Johan
Because there is a warscore does it mean we can conquer only a limited amount of land in a single peace conference? What about some full conquest CB, where an attacker can conquer whatever land he conquered in any with simple force?

Also, why tie integration into a single cabinet guy as if we have only 1 guy in the entire counrty? Wouldn't it he much more realistic to just spend money for increased bureaucratic presence alongside some base free comparativly small ontegration from one cabinet guy?
 
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I hesitantly agree, but it might be too early to say. It'll certainly carry a steep opportunity cost.

@Johan What happens if the integration gets interrupted, for example the cabinet member dies during the task? Do we lose all progress, or do we pick it up where it was? Can you willfully interrupt an integration to do something more pressing, then go back to it without losing progress?

If cabinet member dies, all that happens is that the progress is a bit slower until you assign a new member.. that is true for ALL cabinet actions.
 
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What is separatism then? Well, it is the reduction of satisfaction for pops that are not of the primary culture. This is very likely to make the locations very unproductive for quite some time.

What about pops that have a different religion, don't they get a reduction in satifcation?

yes.

culture / religion already gets that. separatism is on top of it
 
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calling a Parliament and asking them to come up with a valid reason for war against a nearby country
Will the difficulty of the task be somewhat related to "actual" reason, or will your estates demand the same if you're asking for reasons to attack a long standing ally (with which your noble may have family ties) or a big enemy that killed tons of nobles 50 years ago ?
 
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Do the current tags start with all their owned locations 100% cored, or will different tags have different levels of integration to represent pre-1337 conquests?

no.

many have locations at conquered status and some at integrated.
 
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So war will be easier, in that you can take 100% peace deals from countries with less effort. But also less profitable, as the conquered land will take decades longer to be productive and cause problems in the meantime. I think this is a good balance.

Conquest will be easier, but you’ll want to do it less often. Alleviating two problems: frustrating EU4 total wars and snowballing. Quite ingenious!
 
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Will Agressive Expansion/infamy differ between nations? Like say the Spaniards conquering a trillion native tags will probably make them very unpopular in Mexico, but their other European neighbors might not care as much.
 
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If the attacker gets their wargoal, they win without total war. But how does the defender win as quickly? Is there a time limit from which they start winning if the goal has not been taken?

In EU3 it took 50 years, which was like 1/5th at release.

EU3 has a lot less tiles too.
 
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I don't understand why/how a cabinet member integrates a province, even as an abstraction.

Why doesn't it happen organically over time as long as the citizens are happy, prospering, and kept in control?
 
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If you conquer a single location in a province you don't have integrated (in a place like Ireland, for example), can you integrate that province with just that one locations?

If you have a province integrated and you conquer the one location in it you didn't control, does that location immediately become integrated?
 
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Overall these mechanics looks great to make war a more difficult choice to make compared to eu4, were blobbing is always the better option.


Will we have the ability to make a vassal of the new conquered land, instead of waiting to integrate them?

Does the hordes have special mecanics to declare war faster, or just can recover the penalties caused by no-cb war more easely?

And will Chinese nations have special CB to unite China faster, like The "Unify China CB" in Eu4 that give core on occupied provinces?
 
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I don't understand why/how a cabinet member integrates a province, even as an abstraction.

Why doesn't it happen organically over time as long as the citizens are happy, prospering, and kept in control?
I suppose you could say he reminds / organises everyone who's their new lord, does some propaganda / setup all the governing structure for that new terriotry, puts or "convinces" the existing authorities to properly respects the new customs, that sort of things. It makes sense a newly taken province needs some attention to "be a proper part" of your country
 
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I don't understand why/how a cabinet member integrates a province, even as an abstraction.

Why doesn't it happen organically over time as long as the citizens are happy, prospering, and kept in control?
The people being happy doesn't mean that their administrative apparatus is integrated into the state. Take, for example, Serbian conquests of Greece. Usually the administrative approach was "leave the administration of the place in Greek hands", with very little influence from the state proper. The result was that Greece was not following the same principles of governance, not following the same laws, not using the same language of administration as the rest of the Serbian Empire.

An integrated part of your country isn't just because the people there are happy for a while. It's because you actually put in the effort to convert the previous administrative apparatus in that region to that of your state, rather than whatever they were doing previously.

Which is also why the culture and religion of the location conquered matters so much: the closer in similarity the preexisting administration was to your own state, the easier it is to migrate those systems over. Still takes time, though.
 
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Given that integrating a province can take 50 years, can we pause it, have the cabinet member do something more urgent and then return to it, or would he have to start from the beginning?
I dont think it would be a good idea, as you need high administrive efficiency to make your cabinet member fully focus on task again