• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #30 - 25th September 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the time of the week when we give you new information about our entirely super secret upcoming game with the codename Project Caesar.

Today we will talk about how conquest works and how integrating the new locations you have conquered will work. With conquest, we are talking about how you take territory through warfare. For how the actual military campaigns work, I recommend reading Tinto Talks 22, 23 and 24.

Casus Belli
To start a war many feel that you need a casus belli for it, which we will refer to a CB for the rest of this talk. If you lack a CB and start a war you will gain some aggressive expansion and lose some stability. Now while this may not be something you may always want, it is a more lenient way to recover instead of spending precious paper mana like in EU4. However, there are multiple ways to get a CB in this game.

Now, Project Caesar does not have a ‘Fabricate Claim’ button that magically creates a CB on any nation, nor do we have a system of claims, but you have several different options to get a CB.

First of all, there is the super old school way of getting one from an event. This may not cater to everyone's playing style, as it is way too random, but if it was good enough for your parents back in 2001, it is good enough for.. Eh, n/m.

Secondly, we have the option of calling a Parliament and asking them to come up with a valid reason for war against a nearby country. This is powerful, but unless you have a high Crown Power, you may need to negotiate with your Estates for their backing. And Parliaments can not be called every month either, democracy is not even invented yet.

Finally we have the way of creating a CB, when there is a more or less legitimate way to one. First of all, creating a CB on a country requires you to have a spy network in the target country, similar to how claim fabrication works in EU4, but you also need to have some sort of reason to create the type of CB you want. If you let's say play Denmark and want to take back Skåne from Sweden, as you have cores on it, then you can create a ‘Conquer Core’ CB on them, or if they have used Privateers in sea zones where you have a Maritime Presence, you can create another CB on them. There are 50+ different CB you can create depending on circumstances, including everything from ‘Flower Wars’ for countries of Nahuatl religion, ‘Dissolving the Tatar Yoke’ for the tributaries under that International Organization, or ‘Humiliating Rivals’.

war_overview.png

31 allies and subjects for Bohemia, hmmm…

Just remember.. No CB is best CB!


War Goals
Whether you decide that a small border adjustment is needed, or you wish to wage a total war, you need to pick which War Goal you wish to pursue. Different casus belli will allow you to pick different War Goals and the War Goal you pick impacts the cost of conquest as well. A conquer CB will make taking land cheaper, while a ‘humiliation CB will make them more expensive.

A War Goal for a province requires you to occupy that entire province, while a Naval Superiority War Goal will give you a bonus score for blockading the enemy, and defeating their navy if possible.

If your War Goal is fulfilled then the warscore from it ticks up to a maximum of 25, and the total impact from battles in this game can be worth up to 50, while occupations and blockades have no cap and can reach over 100 warscore if possible.

In Project Caesar, therefore, not every war is necessarily a total war like some previous games we have made.

If the War Goal is not fulfilled, it is only possible to get 100% War Score if the winning side controls all of the losing side's locations, and the losing side controls no towns or cities.

This means that if you have your wargoal taken care of, winning some important battles and occupying some land, you will be able to force a reasonable peace on someone.

war_goal.png

Give me liberty or ehh.. annexation?


Integration
So what do you do then, when you have signed a peace and got some new land to your country?

First of all, it is not as simple as a location being a core or not, as Project Caesar introduces a new system of integration for locations. There are four states of integration in this game, first of all the conquered locations, which have a high separatism, lower control, and make pops unlikely to convert or assimilate. This is the state of any location you conquer that is not a core of yours. When a location becomes integrated, separatism drops to one fifth of the previous levels, and control has a higher maximum. When a location becomes a core, the minimum control is higher, and your primary and accepted cultures grow more, while minorities become stagnant. We also have the colonized status, which is after you have colonized a location, and it is not yet a core. A colonized location has lower maximum control.

What is separatism then? Well, it is the reduction of satisfaction for pops that are not of the primary culture. This is very likely to make the locations very unproductive for quite some time.

A location becomes a core automatically if it's integrated OR colonial, and at least 50% of the pops are of the primary or accepted cultures of that country.

core.png

It is beneficial to get your locations to become your cores…

How do you integrate a location then? Well, this is the challenge in Project Caesar, as you do not have any magic paper mana to spend on it, but instead you need to use one of the members of your cabinet to integrate it. At the start of the game, a cabinet member can integrate an entire province at once, but in the Age of Absolutism you have an advance that will let you integrate an entire area at once.

This integration is not instant, but depends on many factors, like the status and the population living in the locations affected, but on average integrating a province may take between 25 and 50 years.

integration.png

And what are all of these factors then?


Stay tuned, as in next week's Tinto Talks, we will talk about how peace treaties themselves work, and which ones we have.
 
  • 207Like
  • 74Love
  • 17
  • 16
  • 9
Reactions:
Maybe there needs to be another tier introduced between conquered and integrated locations/provinces. This status could be called "consolidated", maybe. The status doesn't give all the benefits "integrated" would give, but it can be acquired passively, without cabinet action. Upon loss of province, this "consolidated" status would tick down much quicker than "integrated" status would, or maybe it could be lost immediately.
Meanwhile, making a province "integrated" could remain still just as time consuming and in demand of cabinet action, but maybe the status itself could add perks slightly closer to "core" status compared to its current state, and have a slower decay upon loss of province.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Will there be a access-CB for getting a land-connection to an exclave? Or a access for a landlocked Nation or exclave?
Like in History, when prussia wanted to connect eastern prussia to the German hearthland? Or how modern day Ethiopia talks about waging war to get access to the coast.
 
no.

Accepted cultures never convert, as accepted cultures are a part of your nation.
Just my 2 cents

1. People should be able to selectively discriminate and/or assimilate any culture or religion that they want. There is no reason that some of the French cultures can't assimilate other neighboring cultures while at the same time not trying to assimilate people in Asia. While some of the worst discrimination in reality happened against what will presumably seen as "accepted" cultures in the game. It's a really complicated matter in reality, and the game would benefit from allowing selective treatment of any culture or religion. Always found it weird how Ukrainian is accepted culture in Vicky games, hence not being assimilated(yeah right).

So for example it should be totally possible for Croatia or Serbia to get south Slavic cultures as accepted, while at the same time assimilating each other, but not assimilating Bulgarians, or the other way around.

2. Treating a culture or religion badly in your empire should give a CB to another empire who has that culture as accepted or has that religion. There should definitely be more downfall from converting cultures or religions, maybe even giving you some infamy/AE.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
I'm pretty sure we'll be conquering more than 1-2 provinces per 25-50 years on many occasions so we definitely need far more cabinet members to integrate anything whilst ever being able to use them for any other task. Only having 2 cabinet members at start whilst needing to spend 25-50 years to integrate a single province early on means you'd be able to integrate a total of 2-4 provinces in an entire 100 years whilst using your other cabinet member on literally every other task. I don't know if integrating will even be worth it if you're spending so much time for a single province hogging up one of your precious cabinet members. As it is it seems like conquest is kinda pointless if I'm understanding this correctly, which would be a complete failure of the system.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I'm pretty sure we'll be conquering more than 1-2 provinces per 25-50 years on many occasions so we definitely need far more cabinet members to integrate anything whilst ever being able to use them for any other task. Only having 2 cabinet members at start whilst needing to spend 25-50 years to integrate a single province early on means you'd be able to integrate a total of 2-4 provinces in an entire 100 years whilst using your other cabinet member on literally every other task. I don't know if integrating will even be worth it if you're spending so much time for a single province hogging up one of your precious cabinet members. As it is it seems like conquest is kinda pointless if I'm understanding this correctly, which would be a complete failure of the system.

That's how I feel about it too. Why even waste precious time and resources going to war if territories are such a worthless burden to acquire and integrating them is so ridiculously costly? Players would tend to avoid expansion wars at all costs, which kinda screws up one of the fundamental aspects of a game in which war itself is such a strong feature.

Perhaps territories with accepted cultures and religions could be way faster and easier to integrate, making it more viable to expand on regions with your cultural identity. Make something realistic like the more similar a population is to their conquerors, the easier it is to embrace the new status quo. This would at the very least make it more interesting and viable to play small nations in fragmented regions, like Italy or Germany.
 
Maybe there needs to be another tier introduced between conquered and integrated locations/provinces. This status could be called "consolidated", maybe. The status doesn't give all the benefits "integrated" would give, but it can be acquired passively, without cabinet action. Upon loss of province, this "consolidated" status would tick down much quicker than "integrated" status would, or maybe it could be lost immediately.
Meanwhile, making a province "integrated" could remain still just as time consuming and in demand of cabinet action, but maybe the status itself could add perks slightly closer to "core" status compared to its current state, and have a slower decay upon loss of province.

This is an excellent idea!

Let's say upon conquering a province it has the status of "Conquered" with very low maximum control (like 25%) and high separatism. You can then start the process of consolidating it, which will take 5 to 25 years and not demand any cabinet member, representing the conquering nation's garrison forces building the necessary infrastructure to exert proper dominance upon the conquered locations. When that is done, the province is upgraded to the "Consolidated" status, having 50% maximum control and perhaps even more separatism from the pops feeling subjugated.

Then the Consolidated province can be integrated through the cabinet member, who will only have to spend the rest of the 5 to 25 years remaining to achieve the "Integrated" status. This way there isn't such a huge burden on the cabinet and the integration of the conquered provinces becomes a more gradual process, which renders expansion something still hard and cumbersome, but less of a crippling endeavor.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Probably too late to comment, but I have a couple of thoughts on the topic.

Integration and coring:
  • Integration should not magically reduce separatism from 50% to 10% in one day, but just start the gradual process of the separatism reduction. Integration should take a bit shorter time (25-30 years instead of 50, literally one generation with nostalgia), and then another 25-30 years of gradual separatism reduction from 50% to 10% (the next generation that gradually accepts living under new power).
  • Coring should not magically reduce separatism from 10% to 0% in one day, but just start the gradual process of the separatism reduction during let's say 5-10 years.
Aggressive expansion (more optional, valid mainly for European countries):
  • When you fully annex another country, there can be additional aggressive expansion penalty, higher at the start, lower in the late game (20-25% declining to 0-5% or whatsoever). It would not apply if you vassalise or leave at least one location. This may simulate some transition from Feudal relationships in Europe to national states and blobbing empires a bit better.
  • Maybe vassal annexation should have some kind of minor aggressive expansion penalty too (let's say 10-20% of the AE you would get if you had conquered the respective provinces).
 
Finalmente, tenemos la forma de crear un CB, cuando existe una forma más o menos legítima de hacerlo. En primer lugar, para crear un CB en un país es necesario tener una red de espías en el país objetivo, de forma similar a cómo funciona la fabricación de reclamaciones en EU4, pero también es necesario tener algún tipo de razón para crear el tipo de CB que quieres. Si, por ejemplo, juegas con Dinamarca y quieres recuperar Escania de Suecia, como tienes núcleos en ella, puedes crear un CB "Conquistar núcleo" en ellos, o si han utilizado corsarios en zonas marítimas donde tienes presencia marítima, puedes crear otro CB en ellos. Hay más de 50 CB diferentes que puedes crear según las circunstancias, incluyendo todo desde "Guerras florales" para países de religión náhuatl, "Disolver el yugo tártaro" para los tributarios de esa organización internacional o "Humillar a los rivales".

Esta integración no es instantánea, sino que depende de muchos factores, como el estatus y la población que habita en las localidades afectadas, pero en promedio integrar una provincia puede tomar entre 25 y 50 años.
Me estás diciendo que aun teniendo núcleos en una provincia, tengo que ponerme a fabricar la reclamación de conquistar ese núcleo cuando en EUIV ya eso por si solo es un CB. Es como si hiciera doblemente la reclamación o el CB.

Otra, la integración de una provincia 25 y 50 años??? Eso significa que podrías tener provincias sin integrar por años y estar acumulando más y más de otras guerras y eso solo traería problemas en un futuro cuando en 25 años puedes fácilmente hacer 3 o más guerras de conquista.