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Götterdämmerung | Expansion Pass


Aaand there we have it, with the release of this video there can be no more subterfuge: our expansion Götterdämmerung drops November 14th.

Of course, we’ve kept this one under wraps for a bit longer despite some … subtle hints, so now is our opportunity to explain a little about what Götterdämmerung heralds, and what else is coming for Hearts of Iron in the near future.

With the above said, I’d like to draw attention to the fact that Dev Diaries and related events will be arriving with high frequency over the coming six weeks - two or three items per week up until launch. This means today we won’t be diving into extreme detail on each of the headline items, but you won’t have long to wait to see more.

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Note: The original schedule was changed to swap the Raids and the Small Features DD's to give the Devs more time with the Raids DD

Special Projects
A German themed expansion is something many of you have been clamouring for for many years, and as we’ve been quite clear about in previous roadmaps, we’ve also wanted to work on a super-weapons feature since the release of HoI4. Naturally, these two things made sense to tackle together.

War drives all sorts of technological innovation in an attempt to out-do opponents and although many projects ultimately never saw the battlefield, Götterdämmerung aims to tie together existing research systems with a new experimental research mechanic that allows for both historical and less historical but plausible super-projects to be pursued. The research process will become an important part of gameplay, with scientists, map-located experimental facilities, and supporting infrastructure all combining to produce a wide variety of outcomes that can augment your forces or change the very nature of the war you are fighting.

Military Raids
Of course, the story of experimental project development during the war was one fraught with strategic implications. From the secrecy around the Manhattan project, to the dambusters raids or targeted strikes on important facilities such as Peenemunde, there are numerous examples of targeted military strikes that had a severe impact on the nature of the conflict.

The military raids feature aims to add more narrative to your conflict while remaining an inherently strategic tool in your arsenal. Target experimental facilities, important military installations and more with high-risk, high-reward planned operations across multiple disciplines. We’ve aimed to have as much integration as possible here with special projects: raids will be one of your main counterplays to an opponent scheming to develop their own [redacted].

Germany
Germany will be receiving a totally revised historical national focus tree and a host of new alternate historical paths. We’ll go into further detail about exactly what is coming here, but we’ve put a high premium on retaining the core feeling that Germany’s old tree gave the player: a sense that they are the protagonist in the events leading up to the war; that the conflict revolves around their actions.

Austria
Resist the oncoming storm, cast off the shackles of enforced military impotence and retool your nation around your chosen identity. Forge a new history for Austria free of German control, standing as a beacon of resistance or reclaiming your fractured empire.

Revised Hungarian Focus Tree
A completely overhauled Hungarian focus tree, with a detailed historical revision and a completely unique perspective on reforging the Austro-Hungarian Empire, independent of Austrian content.

Belgian Focus Tree
Resist or welcome German supremacy. Draw on the natural wealth of the Congo and build potential for an African government-in-exile. Alternatively, play as the Belgian Congo, and either support the war effort, or throw off your old masters.


And of course that’s not all. With any release there’s a host of other items that will appear, some small, some bigger, and notably some pretty nice improvements to the way the AI will play on a tactical and planning level.

Expansion Pass

With Götterdämmerung we’ll be trying something a bit new. The release will be part of an expansion pass. Expansion passes are our way of both giving you a roadmap for the content that’ll be arriving over the next few releases, and for letting you sign up to get that content when it arrives with a discount of 20%.

The expansion pass will include:
  • Instant unlock of three new 3d tank models and a music track​
  • The Götterdämmerung expansion (Nov 14th 2024) - $24.99/£21.99/€24.99​
  • The Graveyard of Empires country pack (Q1 2025) - $14.99/£12.79/€14.99​
  • Prototype Vehicles unit pack (Q3 2025) - $6.99/£5.89/€6.99​
HOI_ExpansionPassOne_KeyArt.png
To see the Expansion pass on Steam, click the image above or this link https://pdxint.at/EP1Store
Now to get ahead of the game here: we understand that this method won’t appeal to everyone. All items listed above except for the first bullet-point will be available for purchase separately as per usual, or in the DLC subscription.
 
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Just hoping that the devs would cook this one perfectly so that they can quickly move on to the other things, same with Graveyard of the Empires.
 
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Very interested in a lot of what is being offered here.

Would say that the features I would be interested in are:

-German focus tree: cant wait to see but 2 issues with the historicity in my games

a proper carving up of Greece as per the historical occupation which isn't possible currently in the game, as Italy takes it all usually
Same question for Yugoslavia

a way to outright puppet or invade Hungary like what historically happened in 1944

-urban warfare. very curious what you're cooking here

Looking forward
 
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-urban warfare. very curious what you're cooking here

I overlooked that?

The military raids feature aims to add more narrative to your conflict while remaining an inherently strategic tool in your arsenal. Target experimental facilities, important military installations and more with high-risk, high-reward planned operations across multiple disciplines. We’ve aimed to have as much integration as possible here with special projects: raids will be one of your main counterplays to an opponent scheming to develop their own [redacted].

Can I hope that means that linguist, double Agent and master Interrogater has been fixed? Or will I still not get any additional nationalities and will the operation continue to be a penny grave?
 
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While I am happy to finaly see the well deserved Hungary rework, as for thus far I think that the Austrian Focus tree(Empire path, seems a bit small and not really expanded enough as it could be, plus I hope it does add enough content where by the end of 1944 you have stuff to do like colonies or making mexico, spain or the benelux back as your Imperial subject or allies).
I do hope you include a bit of new economic terms like corporatism considering that Austria was historically in that period a corporatist state but unlike italies fascist corporatism it was catholic corporatism which included Zünfte/guilds (I assume if A-O existed would have too supported this form of economy... considering that the Habsburgs still are known as devout catholics).
And why was the Danubian federation it's own path? Or were it possible to make the Austrian Empire into the USGA(United states of Greater Austria) as i believe that no matter how not important realism is here, I think that everybody would like to at least see the option to be able to create that as it makes sense considering if we look at history(although it could be that you are leaving that for the Hungarian part of the focus tree in a way).
Also impotrant note:
Please!!! Please!! make it so that now you dont get mostly claims but cores(Like Galicia, Italian lands like lombardy etc...) or that now you can core these lands, because Mannpower is in general a problem for A-O.
And yeah more national spirits would be nice as other newer monarchist paths steamrole old Austria Hungarians 1 nationa spirit that it gets(and yeah leader trait too would be nice)... and no RNG in general...
 
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Expansion Pass price: 36,99$ - 20% Discount if you purchase it instead of individual DLCs.
- Götterdämmerung: 24,99$
- Graveyard of Empires: 14,99$
- Prototype Vehicles: 6,99$
- Ride of the Valkyries: Bonus
- Supports pack (3 Tank Models): Bonus
so the main expansion will be 25 dollars instead of 20 this year?
 
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While I am happy to finaly see the well deserved Hungary rework, as for thus far I think that the Austrian Focus tree(Empire path, seems a bit small and not really expanded enough as it could be, plus I hope it does add enough content where by the end of 1944 you have stuff to do like colonies or making mexico, spain or the benelux back as your Imperial subject or allies).
I do hope you include a bit of new economic terms like corporatism considering that Austria was historically in that period a corporatist state but unlike italies fascist corporatism it was catholic corporatism which included Zünfte/guilds (I assume if A-O existed would have too supported this form of economy... considering that the Habsburgs still are known as devout catholics).
And why was the Danubian federation it's own path? Or were it possible to make the Austrian Empire into the USGA(United states of Greater Austria) as i believe that no matter how not important realism is here, I think that everybody would like to at least see the option to be able to create that as it makes sense considering if we look at history(although it could be that you are leaving that for the Hungarian part of the focus tree in a way).
Also impotrant note:
Please!!! Please!! make it so that now you dont get mostly claims but cores(Like Galicia, Italian lands like lombardy etc...) or that now you can core these lands, because Mannpower is in general a problem for A-O.
And yeah more national spirits would be nice as other newer monarchist paths steamrole old Austria Hungarians 1 nationa spirit that it gets(and yeah leader trait too would be nice)... and no RNG in general...
Manpower should be a problem for a memepath anyway.
 
Cause people were *furious* when they did Switzerland but not Austria for BBA, so clearly people want it. Also, Poland, Netherlands, France, Denmark, Norway, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Ethiopia, & Czechoslovakia generally get conquered/annexed before the end of 1940--- should they just not do focus trees for any country that didn't historically make it all the way through? It's a game, not a textbook, people love their alt history.
I think it's a given at that point that all countries get focus tree and I kinda agree with it. But I disagree with those comparaisons, most of those countries historically resisted their invaders and also gameplay wise they don't derail the game nearly as much as Austria refused to get annexed by Germany. Imo Austria is just a bit more relevant than Switzerland in the context of getting a tailored focus tree.
 
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I overlooked that?



Can I hope that means that linguist, double Agent and master Interrogater has been fixed? Or will I still not get any additional nationalities and will the operation continue to be a penny grave?
Hope is free, but as they haven't the slightest interest in fixing old stuff and don't even pretend to, the chance of your hope being realized are between zero and nil.
 
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Expansion Pass price: 36,99$ - 20% Discount if you purchase it instead of individual DLCs.
- Götterdämmerung: 24,99$
- Graveyard of Empires: 14,99$
- Prototype Vehicles: 6,99$
- Ride of the Valkyries: Bonus
- Supports pack (3 Tank Models): Bonus
Will Rid of the Valkyries be an preorder bonus for just Götterdämmerung as well?
 
i undoubtedly believe Czechoslovakia deserves a rework in Götterdämmerung more so than Hungary. DoD Czechoslovak Focus tree in of itself has not aged well and was arguably the worst one in it, which is a shame considering Czechoslovakia has potential and historically were able to stand against Germany if it wasn't for the Munich conference.
Alternatively as Czechs you could Conquer Poland and form Zapadoslavia or Conquer Moravia and Form the Moravian empire.
 
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I'm sorry but I have to ask this:

Being a person who bought the: Together for Victory, Death Or Dishonor, and Waking the Tiger DLCs, shouldn't I get this pass for free? Or at least a discount? I did lose some money at the end of the day.
did they note make all 3 of those free and part of the base game?
 
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I think it's a given at that point that all countries get focus tree and I kinda agree with it. But I disagree with those comparaisons, most of those countries historically resisted their invaders and also gameplay wise they don't derail the game nearly as much as Austria refused to get annexed by Germany. Imo Austria is just a bit more relevant than Switzerland in the context of getting a tailored focus tree.
I mean with historical AI it shouldn't make any difference since Austria will just let themselves be peacefully annexed just like before. Or in MP just make it a rule that nobody plays Austria if you want a historical game.

Italy and Hungary or Switzerland can already prevent Anschluss when historical is off so I don't quite see what the big deal is?
 
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Maybe it'll assign tank generals to tank divisions, not shuffle everyone around left and right, utilize fallback lines if able, and make adjustments as needed.
This would be excellent. If the AI has been taught to use something like spearhead armies, with the necessary changes to the Battleplanner, then that would make this patch cycle have more impact and excitement than any number of NF trees.

why not just user observer mode?
For many years, Observer Mode was broken and produced AI behaviours that were different from games with a human player, hence the popularity of observing as the Dominican Republic or Haiti. Last time I looked into it, Observer Mode was working again but I can understand why people are still inclined to use a small nation to observe...

Though admittedly, the current state of FTs and AI behaviors allows for a nation like Oman to be an observer nation - no one has a WG on them, and its neighbors don't try any sort of justifications on them. You can just... sit there and watch the world burn around you if you want to.
....but that small nation should be a Caribbean island that played no part in the actual Second World War. Or a specially-created pseudo-nation (now that would be a good reason to have Jan Mayen in the game). But I'm not sure why that's relevant to a discussion about the likes of Iraq and Thailand, which should definitely be active participants in diplomacy and warfare, not empty shells used for observation.

Regarding the German national focus tree, I would expect the historic, Kaiser, and democratic paths to be in the free update, but the communist and any enhanced Wonder-waffles branches to be in the paid DLC.

That way what you already paid for is updated, but the new content is still for purchase.
But you don´t lose access to any content you paid for. If you don´t buy this expansion you will keep the WTT German focus tree or maybe even get a reworked Historical if they are adding that for free
Yes or no, will Waking the Tiger and Death or Dishonor owners have access to the full new Germany and Hungary focus trees?
You lost nothing. Everything you paid for is still in the game, as it was when you bought it. It's just not 'extra' anymore, and people who just got the game don't have to pay for it. But, you've had all that stuff in-game since you bought those DLCs up to earlier till whenever they merged them into the base game.
The previous policy has been that stuff people already paid for (in vanilla or DLCs) should remain available to them after reworks, and PDX have been responsible and generous with that policy (like giving quite a lot of Finnish content for free because vanilla had a Sisu NS). So I am optimistic that the implementation of that policy will be, for example, in line with @GrandVezir's summary of how it will work for Germany. But from what I have seen in this Dev Diary, we don't know that for sure, even though some of you are asserting that. The devs might say that only the vanilla NF paths are free, and for Hungary that means you'd go back to the Generic NF tree. We'll find out soon enough.

Although Afghanistan is known as the graveyard of empires, it may not be an interesting choice. Both Egypt and Jerusalem have richer storylines and flavors, why use Afghanistan to restrict developers' freedom of expression?
I think it would be hilarious for them to add a hidden Hapsburg Germany path.

I hope the middle eastern country pack will have some events relating to Israel and Palestine. Obviously probably pretty controversial and maybe not the ideal time to do it. But a lot of history relating to it happened in this time period and it's a little weird that it's just not a thing beyond a hilarious releasable that just releases one or the other.

I mostly would just want to see some events increasing resistance in the region, and the countries of the middle east having some decisions involving it.

I think Afghanistan will be used as a place for India, Iran, and Pakistan to intrigue and fight over there.

I agree that Egypt has a rich storyline and it was a major theatre of the War. But I think the Near East (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and the Maghreb, perhaps together with Arabia and Transjordan) deserve a DLC of their own, rather than being an add-on to a DLC focused around India and the Gulf.

A year ago I might have argued for the inclusion of content covering the Mandate of Palestine in a Near East DLC, but right now I think that might be literally incendiary and the devs should stay well clear. Hopefully by the time we get to the 2026 patch cycles the world is in a better place.

I've said this before: If HOI4 was ONLY limited to the historical gameplay path, it would just be a memory now. I'd have played it a couple times, forgot it existed after a year or less, and moved on, and so would have been a lot of others.
If you don't want anything but historical path, no one's forcing you to pay for the new stuff. It really is that simple.
The game company decides how they're going forward, and what path they take.
We, the customers, can give feedback and say what we would like, ,but the only *real* input is to buy, or not to buy. That is the only real choice you get to make.
You *do not* get to design the game to your own specifications.

I also like alt-history, but one point of these forums is to discuss the future direction of PDX games, with the devs reading on. That's all @Giraffus is doing. They're allowed to say they don't like the plans that have been announced.
 
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did they note make all 3 of those free and part of the base game?
Yes in March, but tbf they have to pay their employees so idk why anyone expects free stuff just because they bought some old expansions 6-8 years ago.

Its very old content that has largely been surpassed in quality and size by the newer focus trees and such and allows them to assume all players own the first 3 dlcs which is good for supporting future content. Link to thread that announced this, which pretty much explains the same stuff:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...rvice-spring-sale-steam-store-update.1630917/
 
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I mean with historical AI it shouldn't make any difference since Austria will just let themselves be peacefully annexed just like before. Or in MP just make it a rule that nobody plays Austria if you want a historical game.

Italy and Hungary or Switzerland can already prevent Anschluss when historical is off so I don't quite see what the big deal is?
The existence of an Austrian NF tree should make a difference in Historical Mode, because the AI is still going to be building something and training someone, and those factories and units will be gifted to Germany. If it's done properly it might actually weaken Germany, since the Austrian generic AI seems to like building factories.
 
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no japan rework. the east has fallen; billions must ask for dev teams who abandoned their japan reworks 3 years ago to update
 
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billions must ask for dev teams who abandoned their japan reworks 3 years ago to update
Billions? HoI4 is way more successful than I thought.

Every intern dev and QA tester on the team must sleep each night on a bed made of pure money...
 
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