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Tinto Maps #25 - 8th of November 2024 - South East Asia

Hello, and welcome to another week of fun unveiling of the map of Project Casar. In this week’s Tinto Maps we will be taking a look at South East Asia, so without further ado let’s get started.

Countries
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Quite a variety of countries in the area. The regional power in the decades before 1337 was the Khmer Empire, although at this point they are already in decline and have lost much of their previous hegemony. On the west, the fall of the Burmese Pagan Kingdom and the following Mongol invasions gave rise to the disunited kingdoms of Pinya, Sagaing, Prome, and Toungoo, while in the south the Mon kingdom of Hanthawaddy (also known as Pegu) also split apart. On the center, the decline of the old Lavo Kingdom and its subjugation to the Khmer gave way to the emergence of the Kingdom of Sukhothai when Khmer started its decline too, and Sukhothai is emerging as the dominant Thai kingdom in the area. However, Ayodhya is already gestating the rise of another great kingdom, as King Ramathibodi, the founder of the Ayutthaya Kingdom is already poised to gain power in the region. On the east coast, the Kingdom of Đại Việt is under the orbit of the Yuán, with constant conflict with the southern Hindu kingdom of Champa.

Societies of Pops
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A region very rich in Societies of Pops, which will make it definitely an interesting area.

Dynasties
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The dynasty of the old Pagan Empire is still alive in Prome, with many other dynasties in the region having ties with it, while the different Thai dynasties also have ties among each other.

Locations
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Provinces
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Areas
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Unfortunately, currently the name of the sea area encroaches too much into the land (this will be fixed, don’t worry), but the blue area that gets underneath that name is Chao Phraya.

Terrain
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Tropical and jungle almost everywhere, with quite a bit of comparison between the southern flatlands and the northern mountainous areas.

Development
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Not as developed as the surrounding India or China, but the main centers of power (like Angkor, Pagan, and Sukhothai) are a bit more developed.

Natural Harbors
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Cultures
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A quite variety of cultures, although the southern areas haven’t had their minorities done yet so there will be even more variation there.

Languages
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As an addition from this week one, we have a new map to show with the languages. Keep in mind that this area hasn't had any language families or dialects done yet, so there is a bit of grouping.

Religions
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Again, keep in mind that minorities are not done, so there will be more variation added inside the Theravada block, as there has to be still quite a bit of Hinduism presence in Khmer (its conversion from Hinduism to Buddhism at that point was one of the causes of its decline), and quite a bit more of Satsana Phi among all the Tai peoples.

Raw Materials
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Quite a variation of resources, although dominated mainly by lumber and rice.

Markets
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The commerce is dominated by those countries benefiting from sea trade routes, but the emergence of a strong Ayutthaya Kingdom in the middle will for sure cause a change in the balance of powers.

Population
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Khmer is still the most populated, but other countries around don’t fall that far behind, especially when they manage to unify their areas a bit. There’s also a couple of locations appearing as 0 population that is definitely a bug that will have to be fixed.

That is all for this week. Join us next week when we set sail to take a look at the maritime part of South East Asia by taking a look at all the archipelago of Indonesia (including the Philippines). Hope to see you there.
 
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We will have to find colors that don't get confused (or give them a "same color cb" to fight it out)
In Mongolian world view in 16th century, Mongols are blue, Solonggas (Koreans) are white, Sartagul (turks) are yellow, Tubed (Tibetans) are black, and Kitad (Chinese) are red. Considering Koreans, who even called themselves white-clad folk, nowadays also favor white, I think white could be the color for Goryeo.
 
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Is that population of Dai Viet too underestimated? Arcording to The History of Ming, volume 321, after the successful conquest of Annam:
"六年六月,輔等振旅還京,上交阯地圖,東西一千七百六十里,南北二千八百里。安撫人民三百一十二萬有奇,獲蠻人二百八萬七千五百有奇,象、馬、牛二十三萬五千九百有奇,米粟一千三百六十萬石,船八千六百七十餘艘,軍器二百五十三萬九千八百。於是大行封賞,輔進英國公,晟黔國公,餘敍賚有差。"

Ming commanders literally claimed that they appeased 3.12 million people and also suppressed 2.0875 million "barbarians." These numbers make the 847k seem irrelevant, and it is hard to understand how Dai Viet's population increased to about 5M people just 70 years later.
 
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Proposed religion: Natism should be included as the religion of the Bamar, Rakhine, Kachin and other related groups. This would create interesting religious gameplay by representing the conflict between indigenous nat centered beliefs and Buddhism allowing the player to try to crush Natism as was attempted historically or learn to accept it in parallel with Buddhism (as actually happened historically). It would also allow for alt historical playthroughs as a nonbuddhist Burma helping replayability.

Also just want to say that I don't think any Miao groups like the Hmong were present in Southeast Asia yet. I remember that they started moving there after the three feudatories uprising, but I can't find that information again. Worth looking into.
 
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In Mongolian world view in 16th century, Mongols are blue, Koreans are white, turks are yellow, Tibetans are black, and Chinese are red. As Koreans nowadays also favor white, I think white could be the color for Goryeo.
Is there a data source for 16th century Mongolian worldview? Personally, I think it's interesting. And Goryeo is, um... Personally, I think the same color (deep blue) as Korea in eu4 is familiar and good.
 
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Please no, not the ugly EU4 color for Ming.

Blue Yuan, Red Ming, Golden Qing. This is the ultimate setup. Goryeo/Joseon can just be a darker shade of blue than the Yuan would be.
What makes you say they yuan should be blue?

I want it to be red, idk why but it feels like the best for yuan,

What type of blue are you talking about?
 
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I looked up what Launggyet was, because the name didn’t sound familiar.
1731089979745.png

Now this is just wikipedia’s article for it, but just to make sure, the country of Arakan has a dynamic name after the ruling dynasty? In that case it makes sense.
 
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Okay, but why is Orang Asli culture grey instead of orange? Literally unplayable.
 
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I think in Nan - Pua area, resource could be changed to salt since Bo Kluea salt production was established around 800 years ago
 

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I'm sure many people have said this but change the border fading to nothingness already! Maps convey information the climate map is really unclear because of this design choice. Same for the locations one! It looks cool for countries maybe.
 
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Ultimately inconsequential complaint, but I'd refer to the country as "Cambodia" since it's what it called itself (កម្វុជ, Kambuja), while also being more familiar to modern audiences. "Khmer Empire" is a modern historiographical convention. It's also nice that you guys fixed the name order issue though ("[adjective] Empire" rather than "Empire of [country]").
While on the topic of tags: In EU4 I always thought it was weird that Taungoo was just Taungoo, even in the Konbaung period. Any Burmese history experts can tell me if it would make sense for there to be separate tags? Perhaps there should be a single "Burma" tag? Will there also be an event for Đại Việt becoming Việt Nam, as just a comestic thing rather than as a tag switch?
 
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