Tinto Maps #25 - 8th of November 2024 - South East Asia

[Streamlet]

Location suggestions for Laos and Thailand

Some of these were necessary for me to suggest to help with political borders, others are just name changes or some density increases in central Thailand. Names come from either the historical names mentioned on the modern settlement's Wikipedia pages, and a few others are from the sources linked in my last post on country suggestions.

I think Thailand could definitely do with more locations as it's one of the more heavily populated regions in-game, and I'm guessing would be one the more popular areas for players too.

I noticed that a lot of the original Thai locations on the map mispelled "mueang" as "mueng", which is something that should be corrected as it completely changes the pronunciation of the word in the usual transliteration system. The 'Wikipedia standard' is "mueang", I've also seen "müang" and "meuang", but never "mueng" except for one very old document where it seemed like a mistake. For Lao locations it should be "muang", and "möng" for Shan locations.

 

[Streamlet]

A couple comments on the new culture setup, there probably won't be updates until after the actual review so this is kinda just a reference which I'll repost later.

Firstly, I'd actually reconsider the way Tai Nüa and Tai Long (?) are split. In some of my original posts I did say this would be one way of doing it, but I think there are some important reasons to do it a different way which I mistakenly didn't consider at the time.
1. Exact internal categorization and its history is a more recent field, so having a split in this way is pretty speculative. Having a single 'Shan' culture would avoid the issue of speculation, and also wouldn't be inaccurate in a different way because proto-Shan/old-Shan (the ancestor language of modern Shan, Tai Nüa, Ahom, etc.) is usually agreed to have been spoken around the 10th-15th centuries.
2. It could lead to some inconsistencies with other cultures in the region which haven't been internally split. For example, northern and southern Burmese dialects.
3. Having a unique Ahom dialect would be good for flavour reasons, as their ruler names are often spelled in a specific way it would be easy to create a name list. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahom_dynasty#Swargadeo_dynastic_lineage

Basically, I think it would make most sense in-game to have a single 'Shan' or 'Tai Long' culture and go back to including an Ahom culture. This also matches with a proposal by the scholar Pittayawat Pittayaporn in 2020 in this video, where the historical split looks like this:

 

[Streamlet]

I've added a simplified version of my location map for Burma and Yunnan, focusing on only names and location borders instead of adding loads of new locations.

I figured that I might as well do it because it doesn't take very long on my end. My intention in my original post was to correct mistakes, add new names, and fix awkward boundaries, but with it seeming like the devs are shorter on time, and from the previews no changes have been made to locations yet, this should hopefully make the process easier by showing the parts which are actually important.

 

[Streamlet]

I've added a simplified version of my location map for Burma and Yunnan, focusing on only names and location borders instead of adding loads of new locations.

I figured that I might as well do it because it doesn't take very long on my end. My intention in my original post was to correct mistakes, add new names, and fix awkward boundaries, but with it seeming like the devs are shorter on time, and from the previews no changes have been made to locations yet, this should hopefully make the process easier by showing the parts which are actually important.

To find the information about each name and location, go to the original post and Ctrl+F search for the name under the spoiler.

View attachment 1306189

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This version of the map only adds a single location which was necessary to include. Gengma/Küngma, split from Mengding/Möng Ting (in China near the modern border), since the original location included the capitals of 2 separate countries.

Tbh, I do actually kind of prefer this version, and it's probably what I'd use if I was developing the game map myself, but I'll keep the old map up for reference and because it has all the actual details and possible new additions if those are wanted.

Added the names from multiple languages to this map, like the detailed one, instead of just one name.

As a general guideline, default English names should be:

• Burmese names in modern Kachin State, Sagaing Region, and around Momeik.
• Kachin names around Putao, and north of modern Myitkyina.
• Tai names in modern Shan State.
• Chinese names in modern China.

An exception could be made for locations which are the capital and namesake of their respective countries, e.g. making the default name Möng Kawng instead of Mogaung, or Möng Mao instead of Mengmao, to match the default country names.

---

Shan States in 1337

1337 is only a couple years before the rapid rise of Möng Mao, which would go on to conquer most of these states between 1340 and 1360.

Modern historians place the states based on a mixture of Chinese and Burmese sources, along with local Tai chronicles when they all agree with eachother. The sources I've used can be found at the bottom of the post, and I've added page references to my explanations under the Country details spoilered section. For the most part, modern scholarly papers which compare between and compile together all three histories are the most reliable, relying too much on a single primary source can lead to significant errors.

View attachment 1304580
The borders here are traced from my simple version location map:
View attachment 1304581

Also added more embedded sources to the explanations in this post.

Some areas are different to the feedback preview seen on the map recently and some of my initial posts on the area, so I hope this can be checked over again before the official feedback post, along with my recent suggestions for Laos, central Burma, and Thailand.

 

[Aramenian]

It seems that there have been some changes in Indochina

map source:

Tinto Maps #26 - 15th of November 2024 - Indonesia

Hello, and welcome to another week’s edition of the maps of Project Caesar. I hope you have your boat prepared, because today we’ll be doing some island hopping looking at all the archipelago of Indonesia. Countries A very wide area filled...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[kagami1999]

It seems that there have been some changes in Indochina

Wow, look at all those chiefdoms in Southern China. That's what I like to see, smash the blobs.

 

[Aramenian]

Wow, look at all those chiefdoms in Southern China. That's what I like to see.

South China looks much better now than it did at the beginning.


I just hope this map is out of date and there have been some bigger changes in Indochina. Forum user Stremlet did a really good job of proposing a rework of this region.

Tinto Maps #25 - 8th of November 2024 - South East Asia

Hello, and welcome to another week of fun unveiling of the map of Project Casar. In this week’s Tinto Maps we will be taking a look at South East Asia, so without further ado let’s get started. Countries Quite a variety of countries in the...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[Streamlet]

South China looks much better now than it did at the beginning.


I just hope this map is out of date and there have been some bigger changes in Indochina. Forum user Stremlet did a really good job of proposing a rework of this region.

Tinto Maps #25 - 8th of November 2024 - South East Asia

Hello, and welcome to another week of fun unveiling of the map of Project Casar. In this week’s Tinto Maps we will be taking a look at South East Asia, so without further ado let’s get started. Countries Quite a variety of countries in the...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

It was probably done long before my more major country suggestions, I already noticed some changes in a random map which was posted a couple weeks before mine.

 

[old rabbit]

Regarding the map of Vietnam, i think there should be some changes. The Tran divided North Vietnam into "lộ", "phủ", and "trấn" - however, these are really small, and thus best represented as locations rather than provinces. For North Vietnam, I think we should go with Lê Thánh Tông's division, since these provinces would remain relatively unchanged (except for their names) from 1466 till the 19th century, and are still the base for Vietnam's modern provinces (ie, the current ones are split from these). For the Southern part, I really don't know: the Vietnamese only reached the Mekong delta in 18th century, and it was sparsely populated and not very well organized until the Nguyen dynasty in 19th century. However, I also don't know how the Khmer and Champa organized these territories either, so I guess the compromise is Vietnamese province border, but with Khmer/Champa names? Anyway, the South is pretty much open to suggestions.

Belows is the crude map of the suggested provinces - it's not 100% correct, but it would give a general idea where the provinces were:

Province names:

NORTH VIETNAM
Frontier provinces ("Phiên Trấn"), frontier provinces loosely controlled through allied tribal chiefs
1 - Ngưu Hống. I actually don't know what this area called during the Le dynasty, or was it even part of Dai Viet by 1466, but it's part of the old Ngưu Hống state, and I think it's better than the ingame name "Tru Viện", which I'm not sure even exist in history.
2 - Hưng Hóa
3 - Tuyên Quang
4 - Cao Bằng. While it's not an original province in the 1466 division, I think it should exist as a state because Cao Bằng would become the Mạc rump state, which existed for almost a century.
5 - Thái Nguyên
6 - Lạng Sơn

Core provinces ("Trấn"). The 8th to 11th provinces are very important and should be represented ingame, since they are the 4 core provinces of the Vietnamese during Lý - Trần - Lê dynasty.
7 - An Bang / Yên Bang
8 - Sơn Tây
9 - Kinh Bắc
10 - Hải Dương / Nam Sách
11 - Sơn Nam / Thiên Trường

In the middle is a red dot - Thăng Long (Hà Nội nowadays). Historically, it's a special administrative area like Washington DC, but then it would be too small to be a province by itself. I think it should be included as a location in either Sơn Nam or Kinh Bắc province. Altenatively, it could get parts from each core provinces (which surround Thăng Long) to become a province by itself.

NORTH CENTRAL VIETNAM
12 - Thanh Hóa
13 - Nghệ An
14 - Thuận Hóa. The Nguyễn would further divided Thuận Hóa into 3 provinces, but it's not because Thuận Hóa was an especially large and populous province; rather, it's because Thuận Hóa is the neighbor of the capital Phú Xuân, and the Nguyễn split it up to match the old 4 cores around Thăng Long of the North. Hence I will keep Thuận Hóa as a whole.
The Southern third of Thuận Hóa province (together with part of northern Quảng Nam province) can be made into a separated Phú Xuân / Quảng Đức province, which would be the capital of the Nguyễn Lord and Nguyễn dynasty. However, I think it should be in conjunction with Thăng Long, which is a much more important capital during this time period: if Thăng Long is a separate province, then Phú Xuân can be made; if Thăng Long is part of Sơn Nam or Kinh Bắc, then Phú Xuân should remain a part of Thuận Hóa.

SOUTH CENTRAL VIETNAM - this is the Vietnamese name to be used when Đại Việt actually core this area. Before that, it should be in Cham name.
15 - Quảng Nam. I just combined Nguyễn's Quảng Nam & Quảng Ngãi - again, I feel the Nguyễn was overzealous about splitting the central states into too small provinces.
16 - Not part of Vietnam back then. Not sure what to call them. I guess North Central Highland is ok
17 - Bình Định. Also combined from Bình Định, Phú Yên & Khánh Hòa.
18 - South Central Highland. Not original part of Vietnam by that point.
19 - Bình Thuận

SOUTH VIETNAM - again, this is the Vietnamese name to be used when Đại Việt actually core this area. Before that, it should be in Khmer name.
Somehow South Vietnam seems really sparse here - the area equivalent of 6 imperial provinces (Nam Kỳ Lục Tỉnh) are combined into just 2 massive provinces of 6-7 locations each (compared with the North, where a province only have 2-3 locations). I think they should be split.
20 - Biên Hòa
21 - Gia Định
22 - Định Tường
23 - Vĩnh Long
24 - An Giang
25 - Hà Tiên

Overrall:
- North Vietnam need rework to at least included the 4 core provinces of Sơn Tây, Kinh Bắc (not yet exist) + Hải Dương (Nam Sách ingame) + Sơn Nam (Thiên Trường ingame). Thiên Trường province should be larger. I would be happy if Cao Bằng got added, but it's not a big deal.
- North Central Vietnam need rework in the Thanh Hóa - Nghệ An area. Diễn Châu should be location, while Hoan Châu is basically a different name for Nghệ An. Thanh Hóa should be larger.
- South Central Vietnam is generally ok
- South Vietnam need to be split into smaller provinces.

I don't know much about the smaller division border ("phủ" or "huyện") so I can't offer much help, but because these provinces will be split into the modern province division, I suggest that you can use the modern provinces's border and name if you can't find historical source.

 

[Celo4all]

Hello, and welcome to another week of fun unveiling of the map of Project Casar. In this week’s Tinto Maps we will be taking a look at South East Asia, so without further ado let’s get started.

Countries
View attachment 1210268View attachment 1210269
Quite a variety of countries in the area. The regional power in the decades before 1337 was the Khmer Empire, although at this point they are already in decline and have lost much of their previous hegemony. On the west, the fall of the Burmese Pagan Kingdom and the following Mongol invasions gave rise to the disunited kingdoms of Pinya, Sagaing, Prome, and Toungoo, while in the south the Mon kingdom of Hanthawaddy (also known as Pegu) also split apart. On the center, the decline of the old Lavo Kingdom and its subjugation to the Khmer gave way to the emergence of the Kingdom of Sukhothai when Khmer started its decline too, and Sukhothai is emerging as the dominant Thai kingdom in the area. However, Ayodhya is already gestating the rise of another great kingdom, as King Ramathibodi, the founder of the Ayutthaya Kingdom is already poised to gain power in the region. On the east coast, the Kingdom of Đại Việt is under the orbit of the Yuán, with constant conflict with the southern Hindu kingdom of Champa.

Societies of Pops
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A region very rich in Societies of Pops, which will make it definitely an interesting area.

Dynasties
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The dynasty of the old Pagan Empire is still alive in Prome, with many other dynasties in the region having ties with it, while the different Thai dynasties also have ties among each other.

Locations
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Spoiler: A closer look

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Provinces
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Spoiler: A bit closer

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Areas
View attachment 1210279
Unfortunately, currently the name of the sea area encroaches too much into the land (this will be fixed, don’t worry), but the blue area that gets underneath that name is Chao Phraya.

Terrain
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Tropical and jungle almost everywhere, with quite a bit of comparison between the southern flatlands and the northern mountainous areas.

Development
View attachment 1210283
Not as developed as the surrounding India or China, but the main centers of power (like Angkor, Pagan, and Sukhothai) are a bit more developed.

Natural Harbors
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Cultures
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A quite variety of cultures, although the southern areas haven’t had their minorities done yet so there will be even more variation there.

Languages
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As an addition from this week one, we have a new map to show with the languages. Keep in mind that this area hasn't had any language families or dialects done yet, so there is a bit of grouping.

Religions
View attachment 1210286
Again, keep in mind that minorities are not done, so there will be more variation added inside the Theravada block, as there has to be still quite a bit of Hinduism presence in Khmer (its conversion from Hinduism to Buddhism at that point was one of the causes of its decline), and quite a bit more of Satsana Phi among all the Tai peoples.

Raw Materials
View attachment 1210287

Spoiler: A closer look

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Quite a variation of resources, although dominated mainly by lumber and rice.

Markets
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The commerce is dominated by those countries benefiting from sea trade routes, but the emergence of a strong Ayutthaya Kingdom in the middle will for sure cause a change in the balance of powers.

Population
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Spoiler: Pop distribution

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Khmer is still the most populated, but other countries around don’t fall that far behind, especially when they manage to unify their areas a bit. There’s also a couple of locations appearing as 0 population that is definitely a bug that will have to be fixed.

That is all for this week. Join us next week when we set sail to take a look at the maritime part of South East Asia by taking a look at all the archipelago of Indonesia (including the Philippines). Hope to see you there.

This population map needs to be fact checked. For example:

1- The Khmer Empire's population in the 14th century is difficult to pinpoint with exact precision, but it was likely in the millions. While the empire reached its peak population of around 700,000 to 900,000 at Angkor in the 13th century, it had declined by the 14th century, likely due to the influence of environmental factors. Environmental factors such as the "Little Ice Age," which began around 1300 CE, are believed to have played a key role in the empire's decline. So by 1337 or 1444, the population of Khmer cannot be any more than 1mil.
2- By the 14th century, the Đại Việt kingdom began experiencing a long decline. The population is estimated to have grown from 1.2 million in 1200 to perhaps 2.4 million in 1340.
3- In the 14th century, the population of Yunnan province, China, was significantly affected by the transition from the Yuan dynasty to the Ming dynasty. While the total population of China as a whole dropped to around 75 million in 1391, Yunnan faced both the effects of the Black Death and subsequent Ming dynasty policies of colonization and resettlement.

 

[Streamlet]

Another culture and population post!

I know that minorities likely hadn't been done yet in this version, so I'm just using it as the most up-to-date version of development we've officially seen.

Going back to the Shan / Tai people in Burma, one thing that should be changed is how they form a majority in regions like the modern southern Shan State and Sagaing Region of Myanmar, while they form more of a minority population in the modern Dehong region of China. This should actually be the opposite situation in 1337, Tai people had been long established around the Shweli River but had only very recently began significant migrations into further regions.

Generally, there should be more Chin, Kadu, and Palaung pops in the regions below:

I'll elaborate more on this below. The safer option is to have a baseline 55:45 ratio of Shan:Native populations in further regions, while having a higher concentration of Shan pops and development around the Shweli River valley.

To the south (i.e around southern Hsenwi and Möng Nai), there would be a large population of Karenic or Palaungic peoples. The Riang (Yang) people spread as far north as Möng Yai, and from what I can tell in 1900 they still made up about 15–35% of the population of various regions in the southern Shan states (according to the GUBSS). While they may have formed a majority in 1337, a lot of the early history is speculative and different scholars would have different ideas, it's also possible that the Riang can be merged into the already existing Palaung or Karen cultures in-game.

GUBBS, pt. 1, vol. 1

To the west (i.e. around Kale, Möng Yang, northern Sagaing kingdom), according to Luce the Kadu/Sak peoples were the dominant population before the 13th–14th centuries, but were in decline and the Chin/Zo people had expanded into the Chindwin River valley. Shan people became dominant in this region coinciding with the Mongol invasions in the 1200s, which destroyed the remaining political independence of the Kadu people in Tagaung, and allowed further expansion into Kale, so these were still very recent arrivals and it's unlikely they would form a majority. In 1900, according to the GUBSS, the Kadu population was still about half the size of the Shan population in the Katha district.

Luce, 1985	(these are just small excerpts, he says a bit more about the topic in the linked book)

Around the Shweli River, especially Möng Mao (i.e. modern Ruili) the Shan population would be dominant. Möng Mao/Ruili had a relatively dense population comparable to the density in Lan Na (currently 20k–30k per location in-game), shown both by ruins and local traditions, and Yuan-era records state that the core region of Luchuan (Ruili) and Pingmian (Longchuan) had an almost entirely Shan ("Baiyi") population. Traditions also assert that many Tai populations began to spread out from the region after the expansion of Möng Mao (Luchuan) in the 1300s, and historians believe that its political expansion can be partially attributed to the need for more territory to accommodate a high Tai population. Additionally, the army numbers of the Luchuan-Pingmian campaigns also show the manpower resources which Möng Mao had access to, at the time of these campaigns they had lost most of their territory outside of a relatively small area spanning between modern Dehong and Mohnyin, though the Baiyi Zhuan notes that Möng Mao's armies utilized a huge proportion of the civilian population:

	GUBSS, pt. 1, vol. 1
	Sun Laichen, 2000	Note: the translation of the Baiyi Zhuan I have access to says tens of thousands of households rather than just thousands:
	Daniels, 2018 (Mäng Maaw = Möng Mao)

While some of those population figures seem somewhat doubtful, I think it's clear that Möng Mao's core region (i.e. modern Ruili and Lomgchuan) had a much higher population than a couple thousand, and it would be an inaccurate representation for them to only have a population of a few thousand (as shown in the original population map) especially considering they were able to subdue all the neighbouring Shan states and conquer territory from the Yuan dynasty within 10 years of 1337.

 

[Streamlet]

Some comments on the current country setup in the Shan states which was seen yesterday (I know it's not official until the map review, but I wanted to write it now in case it's still ongoing or so that I don't have to write it later).

Before starting, I would suggest looking at my main updated post on the Shan states to get an idea of all the sources used, and an idea of why I'm now suggesting the removal of countries which aren't mentioned at all in those sources. It is difficult to be certain about the setup, which is why I've changed my suggestions a couple times, but at this point there is probably no further information to be included until more scholarly research is done in the future, so I'm much more confident about this version.

This is mainly about a few countries, Hkamti, Bhamo, Wuntho, Möng Köng, and Hsawnghsup.

I want to stress that the inclusion of Hkamti, Möng Köng, and Hsawnghsup is entirely my own mistake, as I misinterpreted a list of provinces as a list of previously independent states and then communicated that same mistake here as if it were true. Not only is it just a list of provinces, it's an extremely questionable source which was written hundreds of years later, based on local legends, and the historical facts and dates entirely disagree with contemporary Burmese and Chinese sources, modern scholarly works, and even other local legends.

This is the original source, just a list of place names. By the same logic, there would also be many more states that need to be included.

Wuntho and Bhamo also have a very questionable existence in 1337, but were included in the original Tinto Maps post. They are not mentioned in any contemporary sources, only local legends which were written hundreds of years later. If they did exist at all, then they should at least be vassals of neighbouring countries, because it seems impossible for them to have been notable independent powers when they are the only states which are never mentioned in contemporary Chinese and Burmese sources. There were about 5 different tusi states set up around Bhamo during the early Yuan dynasty, all with unclear locations, so I think it makes most sense for it to be part of Möng Mao (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Möng_Mao) which has already been represented as expanding and larger than its initial city-state size in 1330, and which we can be certain governed Bhamo within the first couple decades of the game.

I also think it'd make more sense for the Waingmaw location to be owned by Möng Kawng rather than Möng Mao, as it's much much closer to the capital of Möng Kawng and not cut off by mountains (and would also look more aesthetically pleasing lol).

 

[Lt.Bromhead]

I want to stress that the inclusion of Hkamti, Möng Köng, and Hsawnghsup is entirely my own mistake, as I misinterpreted a list of provinces as a list of previously independent states and then communicated that same mistake here as if it were true.

Kudos to you for owning up to and correcting your mistake!

 

[Goblin Slave]

Cai Tinglan's description of the national products/resources of Vietnam in the 1830s, taken from the book Miscellany of the South Seas

https://www.amazon.com/Miscellany-South-Seas-Chronicle-Shipwreck/dp/0295751673

"Farmers do not fertilize the fields (because they do not dare to eat vegetables that have been covered in filth), nor do they use well sweeps to transport water (because they do not have wooden barrels for home use, they use ceramic containers to draw water). When there is a drought, they allow the sprouts to naturally wither. They do not distinguish between early and late rice paddy, they just continually harvest and reap. In the highlands, they plant millet and peanuts (also called “tudou”), and to a lesser extent they grow sweet potatoes, but no sorghum, beans, or wheat. Their local products include gold and pearls, tortoiseshell, coral, rare hardwoods, aromatic woods, incense, cinnamon, ebony, sappan wood, pepper, styrax benzoin, antelope horn, ivory, rhinoceroses and tigers, apes, baboons, peacocks, silver pheasants, tree kingfishers, boas, ant eggs, jackfruit, cane sugar, coconut oil, peanut oil, potato vine, betel nut, cotton, homespun cloth, crepe, patterned silk, finespun, mother-of-pearl inlays, and other products.

The land is divided into thirty-two provinces: Phú Xuân (the location of the royal palace), Quảng Nam, Quảng Ngãi, Bình Định, Phú Yên, Cao Miên [in present-day Cambodia], Khánh Hòa, Bình Thuận, Biên Hòa, Gia Định, Hà Tiên, An Giang, Định Tường, Vĩnh Long, Quảng Trị, Quảng Bình, Nghệ An, Hà Tĩnh, Thanh Hóa, Ninh Bình, Nam Định, Hưng Yên, Hưng Hóa, Sơn Tây, Tuyên Quang, Hà Nội, Hải Dương, Thái Nguyên, Bắc Ninh, Quảng Yên, Lạng Sơn, and Cao Bằng.

It is somewhat more than five thousand li from north to south, but not even forty li across, all stretched out along the coast. Only the two provinces of Hà Nội and Gia Định have large territories and bountiful products. (Hà Nội produces many luxury items; Gia Định produces a lot of rice, paper mulberry, sugar, and oil.) Besides these two provinces, the goods produced by Vietnam do not surpass those produced by a single Chinese prefecture.

Once you enter the interior mountains of the southwest, then it is all high ridges and remote forests. These mountains extend for several thousands of miles without a trace of human beings. Only [the legendary walkers] [Da] Zhang and [Shu] Hai could ever penetrate it.

I, Tinglan, through the peril of wind and wave, journeyed in a foreign land. Although the details were lost in translation, I fortunately encountered many émigrés from my home province and was able to visit them and ask them about things everywhere I went and learned that our dynasty’s enlightening influence can make even the most wild locales look eagerly toward civilization. China and foreign countries are truly one family. I was gifted the resources I needed to return to my home soil. How could it not be that the sagely Son of Heaven’s lofty generosity gave rise to this? I am therefore offering my limited observations of my expedition, chronicled here in outline.

Master [Zhou] Yungao’s commentary: When writing of foreign places, he accurately records things as they happened, and the ethos of the foreign people is apparent. Through his ups and downs there, he completely rose to the occasion, and this is what we call being appropriate."

Spoiler

 

[ArVass]

Wow, look at all those chiefdoms in Southern China. That's what I like to see, smash the blobs.

All those Tusi are going to be a NIGHTMARE to manage, lol.

The colour of Yuán, Khmer, and Muang Sua still need to be sorted out somewhat, because they are still rather similar shades of yellowish green, especially because it makes Vientiane's deep red jarring as it's surrounded by lighter colours from all directions. I would go with a teal or blue Yuan (hot take), and a somewhat deeper green (darker and more saturated) for the Khmer Empire.