Tinto Maps #27 - 22nd of November 2024 - Oceania

[King of Zoot]

Why did you go with the Turrubal culture for the Brisbane area plus hinterlands over the Jagera?

 

[GeneralUrist]

On top of all the other arguments for making Tu'i Tonga playable, I suggest adding a market center in that area. The polynesians did maritime trade, it makes no sense for them all to have zero market access due to being leagues away from the nearest center in Indonesia.

 

[FaeKissed]

My take is there should be a gamerule that centralizes, at the very least, Hawaii so the historical centralization and unification can happen. I'd also throw in the Kaurna, Tonga, and probably at least one of the New Zealand societies so that New Zealand has something.

 

[Freshplayer]

For religions, has the dreamtime ended?

 

[Droobler]

1. Very happy with the density of the cultures although I would like to know what sources have been used to make distinctions here, although I recognize many somewhat educated guesses have to be made

2. I would love to see some playable countries in the region (especially Polynesia) it can be a little disheartening to open up the map and see nothing but blank space especially since the idea of 'Terra Nullius' was used to justify the colonization of Australia. perhaps this issue could be fixed by displaying the existence of Pops in some way on the default map mode //australian.museum/learn/first-nations/unsettled/recognising-invasions/terra-nullius

3. I'm not sure if this has been discussed yet but how does culture shifting work in this game. (If it's even possible) would it be possible for a player to start as Majapahit, colonize say Tiwi and then shift primary culture to Gunbalangi for instance.

 

[ZigTheNorweigan]

We have plenty of ideas, but the feasibility of them is very low at this stage, to be brutally honest. We'll confirm it in due time, but we prefer to be honest with the community, and not create non-realistic expectations.

I do feel that if SOPs end up non playable on release you have to lower the minimum viabillity of what can be landed states because your just going to end up with swathes of Africa, the new world and the literal entirety of Oceania to be quite literally unplayable

 

[Big_birdy]

i think the torres strait islands should be a SoP (preferably 5 SoPs but the islands are too small to be more than 1 location)

 

[GuSR_]

Would it be possible to keep the 'X People' names for SoPs (to specify that they're an SoP) in diplomacy, or wherever interact with them, but to remove the 'People' part from the map? Takes up space and just feels unnatural.

 

[Raaritsgozilla]

Otepoti should be the province to the south as it is the Maori name for Dunedin. Otakou is an area within Otepoti. Could I suggest a change from Otepoti to Waitaki, which is the region North Otago is in?

Also, if you are sticking with Maori names, Timaru should be spelt Te Tihi-o-maru.

Excited otherwise though!

 

[jakadaka]

I have noticed a fairly major mistake with most of the Australian culture/religion names. You have seemed to have invented your own demonyms/ethnonyms instead of using the currently accepted ones; and it looks like you have done this by modifying them? An example is 'Eoran' instead of the correct 'Eora'. It would be like saying Swedishian instead of Swedish. I can't find any sources using the names you've used, so this is my only assumption. I can understand how this mistake could have been made — as the names of Aboriginal groups do not share the same suffix (or any suffix for that matter) typically found in demonyms in English (like the '-n' you have added above) — but that does not give you the right to invent ones yourself to follow English rules.

Just looking over the map it appears you have done this to a majority of them. I would highly implore you to correct all of these mistakes, otherwise it might be interpreted as you westernising Aboriginal names.

Some more examples:
- Bidwelli instead of Bidwell
- Boon-wurrungi instead of Boonwurrung
- Nari-narian instead of Nari Nari
- Yorta-yorran instead of Yorta Yorta
- Wikan instead of Wik
- Mbaran instead of Mbara
The list goes on...

I've attached the AIATSIS map of indigenous Australia as a source you could use among many others.

 

[hisnkayfa]

I'm pretty sure Kangaroo Island/Karta Pintingga (literally island of the dead) was depopulated by 1337, so it shouldn't have a language or culture.

 

[cymart69]

Slight changes to the topographic map adding more hills to the rugged coast and passages inland.
Major changes needed to the vegetation map, removed almost all jungle, changes some to woods or forest, removed more forest to grasslands or sparse, added desert, and changed some sparse to grasslands.

I don't know how the vegetation map for Australia is so far off from the real world. This should be a lot closer.

 

[pgeorge]

Aotearoa/New Zealand. A few comments largely reinforcing what others have said:

South Island - the location density and playable/wasteland split feels about right (as a local). Could probably even merge a couple of the southerly West Coast locations without losing much in terms of gameplay or historicity. Possibly some tweaking of location names and geographical boundaries as others have suggested, but nothing major.

The lack of natural harbours in the South Island does seem wrong though. Akaroa location (inc. Akaroa and Lyttelton harbours) seems like a natural candidate, and probably Otago harbour as well. You could also make an interesting case for the Whakatu location (Nelson/Marlborough) to have a natural harbour representing Totaranui (Marlborough Sounds), which was an important anchorage both during European exploration (Cook spent ~6 months there in total), and also possibly for earlier polynesian trade, according to some sources.

North Island - the location density seems a bit low. While we get that game is inevitably old-world centric, it does seem off when e.g. Ireland (84k km2) has 80+ locations while the north island (114k km2) only has 18

 

[RohenTahir]

Society mechanic seems to be very good for "countries" from EU4 which were crazy like those in Australia or many other low dev areas in the world. I hope you will look more for Africa cuz there are far too many countries which should be societes able to create their own country instead being simple tribe.

 

[korandder]

Does anyone have a good source for pre-contact vegetation in Australia? A lot of the national parks in the state of Victoria in areas marked sparse on the map above are forested which would suggest much of the land was forested before the white fellas showed up.

 

[Big_birdy]

Does anyone have a good source for pre-contact vegetation in Australia? A lot of the national parks in the state of Victoria in areas marked sparse on the map above are forested which would suggest much of the land was forested before the white fellas showed up.

before i go to bed ill drop this map of Australian vegetation in 1788 and the mid 1980s

Spoiler: 1788 vegetation

View attachment 1220003

Spoiler: mid 80s vegetation

View attachment 1220004

 

[pastalinguini8888]

I highly disagree with your decision to make the area south of Taupo (central north island) a wasteland of any sort. Perhaps it wasn't settled by any specific tribe at the start date but the area was fought over by tribes as early as the 15th century. The tribe Ngāti Hotu is documented to be in that location until their expulsion during a war with Ngāti Tūwharetoa. A battle with the Whanganui tribe also was is estimated to have occurred circa 1450 called "The battle of the five forts."

Additionally, the mountains in the region are not very high and they aren't very dense like they are on the south island.

 

[Orinsul]

View attachment 1220290

Otepoti should be the province to the south as it is the Maori name for Dunedin. Otakou is an area within Otepoti. Could I suggest a change from Otepoti to Waitaki, which is the region North Otago is in?

Also, if you are sticking with Maori names, Timaru should be spelt Te Tihi-o-maru.

Excited otherwise though!

Otepoti was a minor fishing kaik where the dunedin downtown is now, it wasnt an important centre, it likely wasn't even a permanent settlement just effectively boatsheds and fishing houses for use by the bigger settlements up the hills, Wakari was more significant and had a pa, it really shouldn't be a province name as it just wasn't that important. There's a reason it's the land that got sold by Tūhawaiki and the rest had to be stolen, there was nothing there.

I'd go with Arowhenua for the Timaru' province, as it's both one of the most important Huirapa, Rākai, Waitaha and Kāti Mamoe seats, maybe THE most important, as it's where the Arowhenua movement started and was the Pā that many hapu consolidated in to after the 1820s measles outbreak

And Matakaea for the province named Otepoti on this map as Matakaea/Shag Point was a major settlement both historically for Māori, and archaeologically bot Moeraki would also be a good choice because boulders/recognisability

Maybe Awarua for Waihopai? again just the using of a modern name for a modern place? Bluff or Awarua were historically more important centres than invers

also as in earlier posts, there just should be a province for the Wanaka-Wakatipu-Te Anau lakes district as it had consistently higher population and economic/political importance than plenty of the places that do, and would give the island a landlock province.

 

[44655:EarthToaster426]

Hi, @Pavía

Just wondering if you could consider changing the climate type from cold arid and oceanic to Mediterranean, these would be the coastal locations as well as some inland locations of these 3 provinces. These provinces are Narangga, Karta-Pintingga and the western half of Buandig (they're in the areas of south Australia and southeastern Australia). I would also ask that the location of Gnowoo in the province of Kooapudna be changed to Mediterranean as well (Also in the area of south Australia). As someone who has been to most of these locations in person (excluding Gnowoo). I'm hoping this feedback would make the region as a whole feel more accurate to how the climate actually is in this area. I've also included this source (which it wouldn't let me link because this is my first post) which I believe to be a better representation of the main areas I spoke of.

Thanks

 

[Big_birdy]

why is fish an rgo in tasmania even though tasmanians didnt fish