Tinto Maps #27 - 22nd of November 2024 - Oceania

[Miffelman]

What is the reasoning behind giving the Nullarbor locations? To my knowledge it's not much more inhabited than the rest of the locationless areas. Seems especially odd given the many other coastlines that have not recieved locations.

Also the otways (the area west of the Geelong location) are a rainforest. They are currently marked as sparce.

 

[kianagamez]

I might be crazy, but location density in Aotearoa/New Zealand (especially the North Island) seems to be a bit lower than in Australia. Is it unfinished, or was there just some lack of information regarding indigenous place names?

 

[rudy69]

I find it really weird that Austroasiatic languages in Indonesia are grouped (Timoric, Celebic, etc.) while the ones in Oceania are not, for example each culture in Caledonia or New Britain has its own language instead of a "Polynesian" language or something like that (though not all languages in New Britain are Austronesian).

 

[Zaragoza]

@Pavía Is there in game any culture or language difference between Torres Strait natives and Australian aboriginal people? They are different enough so the Australian governments had to start naming them separately in official documents.

 

[PresleyYellow]

for North America will English names be shown as well? I really want to see if Keswick is a location right above Toronto-

On that note, single location minor Keswick Empire with super modern technology?

 

[Lamartine]

If you're not already, I suggest consulting the many many maps of Aboriginal Australian peoples

 

[Goalshunter13]

Nan Madol, the Venice of the Pacific, would be a cool addition as a society of pops.

Nan Madol - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[FaeKissed]

I find it a little disappointing that, if SoPs aren't playable, that entire region will just be empty and have no playable tags, especially when Hawaii was able to centralize.

 

[AsceisOCE]

I'm not disputing anything of what you said, and I am in agreement that is indeed the case that they had a very sophisticated culture with a long history of aquaculture, societal developments and settlements. But what I've said still is the case- we need to bear in mind that multiple other hunter-gatherer societies in Africa and in the Americas also had a significant history of very sophisticated aquaculture, permanent settlements made possible through an extensive manipulation of the environment around them, and even chiefs and charismatic leader societies. There are areas in the world that currently have no SOPs and no plans of SOPs, that are home to cultures that practiced wide-scale agriculture and had hereditary chiefs. There are parts of the world outright made into wastelands that had agriculturalists and pastoralists living in them. So it's a case of what about aboriginals make them deserving of having SoPs compared to the ethnic groups in all these other regions? Sure, they undoubtedly had a very complex history and society, but given the standards applied by Tinto, they should not be represented as SOPs. Otherwise, most of the world should be covered by SOPs.

the problem is then we have an entire continental landmass with zero reason for existence other than to be colonised. while i understand parity in this regards, i think taking a case by case basis for the regions and approaching what is best approach for that specific region would lead to a healthier player state - because as an Australian rn, an entire continent is empty land to be colonised as of the current plan, and that is beyond a shame

 

[u1145]

Are you going to include the Moriori, pacifist Polynesians who came to the Chatham Islands from New Zealand around 1500 and were almost wiped out during the musket wars? Might be a minor thing but I think i'd be a cool flavor event/even chain

 

[u1145]

It looks like you used the territorial waters boundary for the "country" of New Caledonia, not the coastline?

View attachment 1220162

View attachment 1220163

I think that the weird shape comes from the atolls around it

 

[ArVass]

Oh god.

I think Paradox either has made both a good Polynesia and a bad Polynesia. I don’t have the time now but know I am incredibly disappointed in the choice of making all of the countries that are definitely organized enough to be settled countries especially those that were present in EU4 to be just Societies of Pops, it’s incredibly disheartening and just a shame.

There’s also a lot more gripes I have but I simply need some more time to process my thoughts because this is… just sad.

- Yasha

For real, it feels like they really did their homework and also haven't done it at all at the same time

 

[Zaragoza]

And I think there may be some minor natural harbours in Queensland (Rockhampton/Gladstone? Cairns? Townsville? Mackay? I guess Cairns may be the more natural for its bay). I'm unsure about Brisbane, since the city itself is inland, in a river and its harbour itself doesn't seem natural.

 

[BlackPrince]

Population
There are some issues with the Population distribution map of the region this week, but I’m letting you know that the total population is 1.885M.

Send official request to Indonesia about the population of Western New Guinea. I'm sure they will gladly answer..

 

[Tahami Tsunami]

Yep, definitely the Rapa Nui culture fits most of the points to be a settled society (agriculture, a centralized state and a permanent settlement, although I'm not sure about taxation). They were quite small in numbers though (a couple thousands), and I don't know if that's a criteria for deciding against them being a settled country.

I believe it's close to Andorra's population (around 5,700) so I don't believe that aspect should be a huge concern!

Nan Madol, the Venice of the Pacific, would be a cool addition as a society of pops.

Nan Madol - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I believe there's enough to make them a Settled Country! They had public works, a monopoly of violence/administration, and a form of taxation in the form of fruit and fish. I believe these pictures can help show the complexity they and the similar Leluh had as states.

This one below is Leluh.

 

[aantia]

The NZ wild game represents the moa. They were essential to the Maori diet in 1337.

Does that mean there will be an event to change the game to another resource? And will that then cause a population crash?

 

[m_goodw]

Not gonna lie, kind of disappointed in the return to a Terra Nullius view of pre colonial Australia. Societies of pops seem like the obvious way to represent indigenous Australian nations or at least some of the larger ones like the Kulin or the Gamilaraay. Is there going to be any way to simulate the Frontier Wars when colonisers arrive without any societies of pops? It feels kind of arbitrary to say that Australia was solely "bands/kin groups" when we've been shown tons of SoPs so far with wildly different societal structures and subsistence patterns.

 

[Cassilda]

I agree with the previous posters that it's a pity that no Polynesia culture will be playable on launch. Tonga, Rapa Nui, Tahiti, Pohnpei, Hawaii, all displayed enough centralization to be playable settled tags, in my opinion.

 

[otaman1]

 

[cymart69]

The vegetation map for Australia is not right! You have jungle and forests in areas of vast open plains and deserts. This map is not even close to reality.