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And what did you find?
Oh, I kinda vanished from this thread for a week, didn't I? Sorry about that. I've been trying to get all of my ducks in a row for a special post I'm planning for this weekend.

I got some mixed results from using the in-game screenshot as a reference for Leonardo AI, none of which I found good enough to use in Unsung Paragons.

For starters, I used a cropped picture of Rylan so that the AI wouldn't be thrown off by the Stellaris UI.

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Unfortunately, that green haze at the top of and bottom of the image still threw the AI off. All of the results came back with the "camera" focused on his torso and the top of his head excluded.

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This second image here definitely got the closest to how I'm picturing the Augment characters in my head. If his head wasn't partially out of frame, it does look like his pointed ears have an "antenna-like" quality that blurred the line between organic and synthetic body parts I was looking for. Plus he has the glowing "heart light" on his chestplate.


So I changed up the parameters and asked the AI to give me a concept art/character sheet type of image. Those results were noticeably better quality, but suffered from a lack of internal consistency, and for some reason, the majority of the character sheet images made Rylan into a full Human instead of a cyborg alien.

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I've already made peace that I won't have a good AI image of Rylan ready for the special update post I've got planned for this coming Sunday. And I've already adjusted fire, as the focus will be on main protagonist Ino Esperanta and main antagonist Araj Zilfallon instead. I think of the six main characters of my new Stellaris story, getting a good AI-generated image of Rylan will be the most troublesome. Ino, Sota, and Elodie are all Humans. I can cheat with Araj by asking for a creature that resembles the stereotypical European-style demon, and Paradox Interactive has already put out plenty of good quality images of Astrocreator Azaryn, since she was one of the centerpieces of the Paragons update.
 
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Yeah, this is much like my experience of trying to get PlaygroundAI to generate Olinbari.

I'd try generating Rylan by splitting the complicated task of generating him in one go into several easier tasks. 1st gets his physical appearance, 2nd gets the implants and the 3rd to get the blended organic/synthetic appearance, then blend them together.

But with free use restrictions, that could be a while...
 
So, bringing this thread back.

For nearly all this year, I have been using PlaygroundAI, however, with them now swapping to being a graphic design platform, I've had to change to LeonardoAI.

On the bright side, Leonardo does offer more features; you can have the software take a static image and make a 4 second long motion image, for example.

Obviously I started with Naomi and Buri again.

AlbedoBase_XL_A_black_Human_woman_wearing_a_white_wedding_dres_3.jpg

So, after burning a good 700+ fast tokens on getting to that point, I now have a four second clip of Naomi gently kissing Buri's nose after he has ditched the suit for a fur coat while the camera rotates around them. :)

I definitely think Leonardo has more potential - especially since Playground has kind of removed the features that made it good at what I used it for - but I still need more time to familiarise with the software. And it doesn't hurt that it is cheaper than Playground either.
 
Thank you for posting this @CBR JGWRR . You certainly delivered some important but unwelcome news to me. But so glad that you did!

For a variety of reasons, I have not only been away from the forums for many months but also not engaged with new AI Art generation. I have a lot of art that I made for stories earlier, knowing my life was about to go through some changes. So I had not been on Playground since June. So disappointed to see what has happened with that platform which is where I was creating some of my best work. However, it appears they will not erase art work stored there until February, so I have some time to download what I have saved. (Unlike Bing which has made it difficult at times to retrieve older work.) Usually, I download the best material anyway, but I tinker, so would like to keep my entire library.

Yes, it appears Leonardo will be my main spot when I return to doing this work on a more regular basis. Thanks for showing off what can be done there!
 
Yeah, the Board artwork isn't being removed until February, but if you mostly worked on Canvas like I did, then well that went months ago...

Can't get Leonardo's Canvas to work here, but I'm assuming it is user error.

The other thing I miss is being able to generate at 256x256 - Playground allowed it, but Leonardo it seems only allows 888x888. Which when one of the main applications I use it for is generating 128x128 Citizen images for Galactic Civilisations 4 does make things tricky.
 
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Given the revival of this thread, I wanted to call attention to a description of visual workflow produced by @Ran Miller that you can find here. He is using PowerPoint to create a canvas for his work.

I'm very impressed because it renders out just like a graphic novel and that is the effect I was trying with my own AAR. For those who have not seen it yet, please check out Crittark Saga - AGOT ARR. Impressive work.
 
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Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. I don't suppose someone could take a crack at listing the various platforms and their pros and cons? Like ease of use, cost, and so on? I think that would be useful information for a novice.
 
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Thanks for bringing this thread back to life. I don't suppose someone could take a crack at listing the various platforms and their pros and cons? Like ease of use, cost, and so on? I think that would be useful information for a novice.
Holidays this week in the U.S. However, after that, perhaps I will have a moment to give this a go. As I have noted throughout the thread, I only use the free versions. Depending upon your pictorial needs, that often will work. I do this because I am on a limited income. If I had more expendable funds I might decide otherwise. However, in my picture heavy AAR, I think the free services have served me well.

So in a week or so I will try to have some answers unless someone else puts this together first.
 
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So in a week or so I will try to have some answers unless someone else puts this together first.

I do agree that would be great. Unfortunately, I can only write on two, and neither comprehensively...

Thanks for the response. Could always collaborate, if possible.
 
Thanks for the response. Could always collaborate, if possible.
Well, @Chac1 and I have both been using the same ones in Playground and Leonardo, albeit I did subscribe to both - partially for the faster access, and partially because Leonardo has deleting images as a premium feature, but mainly because when you read the Ts and Cs for Leonardo you only license the rights as a free user, and one of my personal reservations is that I want ownership. It's enough that I essentially stopped using SPORE for character creation, for those who remember that game.

On subscription, Leonardo you still have the fast token limit like a free user, it's just raised.

It is somewhat tricky, because it's a very iterative process of trying to find settings that produce the art you want to get, especially if it is a more complex prompt you need to put in, and inevitably to be fair when reviewing the software you need to have the time to get this bit worked through.
 
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A Further Analysis of AI Art Programs
A Further Analysis of AI Art Platforms

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This is an early draft of an AI art project that will likely not be used anytime soon. It is one of my early experiments carried out with the Bing image generator.

Following up on the recent request from @Lord Durham , this is another attempt to review some of the platforms for creating AI art. AI art has proven to be a very dynamic field with many changes just within the past six months. One of those changes was the recent demise of my favorite platform.

That said, please realize this is a very subjective review and it is a bit of a sequel. These thoughts actually started with this post from the SolAARium. The first post in this thread also has some aspects of this review.

As pointed out in the recent note from @CBR JGWRR , my old favorite and stand-by platform Playground has changed into something else and dismantled its best AI canvas features for creating art. I’ll be downloading my cache of visuals from that site before February so I can retain many of the visuals I’ve created there.

So what’s left?

Some may remember I started with Bing’s image generator which has now become Microsoft’s Copilot AI. I liked a lot of the quality of these platforms but got angry when images I had stored on the site were erased. Now, they clearly post that images will disappear after 90 days. However, in returning to the site after many months, I see many of my older images were magically restored somehow.

This doesn’t mean I’m returning full-time to Copilot. I will also be working to make sure I have all of my images properly saved from this site as they have already proved they are inconsistent with security for images. They also downgraded the abilities of their image editor Designer which was a big previous draw. Finally, as CBR JGWRR notes, some sites don’t let you own the images. It is clear you are allowed to use the images you generate but Microsoft owns them.

Despite those drawbacks, the site is free and the quality is sometimes tremendous, although also inconsistent. This was the first AI site I used and I find it easy for newcomers. So it may be a place to start.

Leonardo.AI was becoming a fallback location for image creation for me and that site has gone through some changes too, adding a variety of new features. CBR JGWRR uses that one because with the premium services you can own the images. One drawback I see to using the free service now is they have eliminated easy ways to delete old images! So if I want to reorganize and get rid of images I see as duds while reducing organizational clutter, I can’t do it without using a paid version.

Leonardo uses a token system for creation. The more complex the image, the more tokens. Even with the free service, you should be able to generate a dozen or so images during a session, as you get free tokens daily. But now the paid service allows you to store the tokens, depending upon how much you pay per month. The free version doesn’t allow you to bank unused tokens. AI art can take many generations and many images so a dozen is really just getting started.

The $10 per month (apologies, prices are only in U.S. dollars as that is what the site shows me) service gives you almost twice the daily tokens and a host of special services, including ways to organize images. The $24 per month service gives you six times the number of free tokens, a larger rollover token bank and other improved features. The $48 per month service gives you 15 times the number of free tokens, a larger token bank and many more high-end features. Be aware these may be holiday prices.

Not being a paid customer, can’t say if this is worth it, but CBR JGWRR seems to have had a good experience.

As I have written before, I had started to dabble with ImageFX, an experimental service from Google. They have now rebranded that as part of the AI Test Kitchen. This is a free service and don’t count on the system storing your images. Google says you own the image and the best way to stay connected to them is to copy their URL, as Google assigns an address to the creations.

Because I’ve been playing around with the backstory of Mjölnir in my AAR, as a test I used this prompt in ImageFX: "A 35-year-old beardless blonde Danish king in the 8th Century wielding Mjölnir, the sacred warhammer. Painting."


You’ll see the results look a lot like Thor. I wonder what Marvel would think about that hammer? Clearly, the platform did not follow my instruction for “beardless.” I’ve learned if you ask for Danes, or Norse, or Vikings, you had best ask for beardless if the character has no beard.

ImageFX has a rudimentary image editor and using it, I quickly got rid of the beard. Here’s the result:

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The quality of these images has improved since I first played with this platform. Google says it is coming out with a Gemini Advanced image generator which you might have to pay $20 per month to use. I have not used Gemini to create images. My advice for now is to stick with ImageFX, which is free. (All Gemini image generators are currently free too.) The interface for image storage may be a bit awkward but you should be storing the images on your hard drive for safety anyway.

Admittedly, I was a bit lazy when I started making AI art and just used the services to store the dozens of images created. ImageFX is relatively easy to use with word prompts and the results are improving.

I have also written about RenderNet in the past. RenderNet boasts that it can consistently give you images based upon a photo of a character, putting that character in new settings and poses. In my experiments with the free service that doesn’t happen, but I was willing to try again with their improved platform. So King Þorolfr found his image soon uploaded to RenderNet.


This was the prompt: "^Thoroflr^ a Danish king in the 8th Century, holds Mjölnir, the sacred warhammer, painted as if in a Romantic painting from the 19th Century."

This was the best result:

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Not sure about that hammer, and then there’s that nagging beard to deal with again. But that’s on me. I forgot to ask for "beardless." I had thought that uploading the picture of what I wanted would guarantee me a cleanly shaven king.

Here’s another try from my second pass, but the king still has stubble and frankly looks less like the original. And that hammer looks like it has merged with a mace.

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The free version only allowed me about ten images for this experiment. I did not find RenderNet lived up to its promise of putting my character into other settings. However, your experience may vary and I do wonder what would happen with a paid plan. RenderNet has plans starting at $7 per month and ranging up to $79 per month. Not willing to pay to experiment yet when I can find other options.

There are many other services out there and I have tried three or four others. They are not worth mentioning here as I found them too complex or limiting in their free versions. However, perhaps others have had better experiences and would want to share.

Good luck and have some patience if you are venturing into AI art creation for your AAR.
 
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Reference Images, an Update
Reference Images, an Update

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(As you might be able to tell from the watermark in the corner, this is from Bing. This was an early experiment using a reference image.)

Lately, a discussion elsewhere has prompted this update about using reference images. Some may recall we covered a question about such images earlier in this thread from @Rensslaer .

For the early beginner, let's define: a reference image is another image that can help the AI image generator. Image generators that allow reference images will have an interface to allow you to upload an image. This is not to copy the image exactly but to use many of its properties. Ethically, you should be using images that are in the public domain or images where you own the copyright. Or you could also use other AI images. We'll get to that in a bit.

Let's go back to the opening image in this post. I might use a cropped version of this sometime in the future, but so far haven't found that it works for me. That one is actually from 2023 using the following reference image:

LindisfarneCropped.png

That is actually a replica of the Viking Domesday Stone from Lindisfarne and it is in the public domain. The experiment used this image with additional word prompts. Our starting image was one of the better results.

One of the reasons to return to this topic is the very good AI images that @Bullfilter is creating for his Hearts of Iron 4 AAR Poles Apart. Some of his latest images include Soviet prisoners of war and Polish troops in his alt-timeline of 1947. He discusses some of his process here. That process includes something he calls a "double iteration:" using a manual edit or other electronic method to paste an image into a historic photo to alter it then using that image as a reference image in a further AI generation to as he says "smooth out the edges." You may want to check out the last few chapters of his AAR to see the examples.

This also brings up the idea of having AI art fix issues by making new generations or by reusing some of the discards from earlier generations and experiments. As I have been away from this process for more than a few months, @jak7139 reminded me that regenerating an image is always a way to fix a less than perfect piece of AI art.

For example, the pieces below:

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The image on the left was used as the main chapter image for the latest chapter of Lost Seasons of the Danes. However, Jak rightly called out the horse in the background. Is that a horse or a steer? Does it only have three legs? (Look closely and you will see a white fourth leg but such wonky background images are unneeded distractions.) I had wanted the image to match a paragraph in the story that describes a springtime ride. The solution for making a better picture was using the former image as the reference image, plus better cropping of the image. The resulting image on the right is now the image used in the chapter instead of the original. These were all created with Microsoft CoPilot.

Some might ask, why not just use Photoshop or another program to get rid of the offensive horse. That too is a solution. Some of us are not so adept with Photoshop though.

Along those lines, some good news about Microsoft's Designer. Designer is a very good online editing program and perfect for pairing with images you create with Bing or Microsoft CoPilot. I was moving away from using Designer and Microsoft altogether because they had discontinued the very powerful image editor and eraser that had been included in Designer. The good news is that image editing tool has been restored. I'll be using that soon in forthcoming chapters. If you are looking for a great online image editing tool that is easy to use, that is one of the best, now that it has been restored.

Good luck with your image experiments and with using reference images.
 
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You can do the image regeneration a couple of ways. For example, in my EU4 AAR, the Frisian flag is very finicky to get to work by text prompt alone. So I might get an historical image, with or without a flag in it, using it as a reference image to the AI generator. Or paste a flag into the historical (or generated) image in the right place, and (re)generate the AI image. If you use a high percentage of likeness, it might then 'smooth out' the rough edges of the pasted flag. Or other combinations of these.

Or using a generated image as a reference image for a character portrait, to maintain general likeness. Even paste a CK2 portrait onto a generated image, then regenerate (like with the flags) to smooth them out. But in the HOI4 AAR, it's mainly getting an historical image, then updating it for nationality (say from German or Russian to Polish) and year (given 1947 is starting to get beyond the range of useful historical photos as references). It might soon even get to the point where I start using Korean War reference images instead.
 
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I'm glad Microsoft restored their editing tool. I hope it proves useful.

I don't think I'll use AI art for my current AAR, but may do so for future ones. This thread and your advice has been a great resource.
 
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Thanks for the new information. I was wondering what you all meant by regeneration.
 
So I tried image generation and this is what I got. I did a little experiment on how AI would handle generating an image related to writings. I used the free version of ChatGPT. Below are the two best images I received, with some editing they could be used.

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Attempts to generate the Emperor without the eagle motif but with only a griffin were difficult for the AI to understand, best image below.

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What did you put into the prompt @kakom to make the text so readable? Every time I've tried, the text always has major typos or is illegible nonsense.
 
Great to see you in this thread @kakom . You have some excellent results here. Will you use them in your AAR?

Also, I have the same question as @jak7139 : how did you get the AI to give you a readable sign?