Tinto Talks #42 - 18th of December 2024

[Pavía]

Why do I have a feeling that this game is turning more and more into a frame work that is going to allow to play from 300 BC to 3000 AD seemlessly?

You've just made us reveal the true name of the game, Imperator Iron Crusader Victoria Universalis Stellaris!

 

[Inzano]

You've just made us reveal the true name of the game, Imperator Iron Crusader Victoria Universalis Stellaris!

 

[Pavía]

If you ever add non-historical content to the game, will there be an option to turn it off?
Without turning off the whole expansion, I mean, because they may contain something more than non-historical flavors.
EU4 plays out very differently today than 5 years ago and in the lategame there are almost always non-historical major countries, who were buffed with previous dlcs (which is cool), but turning these dlcs off will means losing other crucial game content.

Interesting point, bookmarking it for the future.

 

[P.Quirinius]

I don't really like the Rise of Savonarola being exclusive to Florence. Italy has a large number of small countries so creating a country specific disaster for one of them feels like a waste of resources. Since this is supposed to happen more than 100 years from the start of the game, it seems odd to railroad it to necessarily happen in Florence. I think it would be more interesting to allow it to happen in other Italian republics as well, if they meet the right conditions, maybe like having the highest cultural influence or being the birthplace of renaissance. It could be allowed to happen only once per playthrough. This would allow to have more flavour with other Italian republics as well. Something similar could be done with the Ambrosian republic, maybe like any Italian monarchy with low legitimacy and strong burghers could be able to get it, although it would probably not make sense to call the resulting republic "Ambrosian" in other countries, but the name could be dynamic or there could be a generic name for countries other than Milan.

 

[Epicbro99]

You mentioned early about how situations are heavily scripted. Any chance we will get some generic situations any country can get? I think one of the biggest strengths of any grand strat game is its dynamicity, and having situations only play out 1 way, and only under specific circumstances reduces that, and so I want the situations to be resolvable in a good number of different ways.

 

[GenericUsername1444]

There should be a Timurid-Georgian disaster mechanic where potentially millions of people may perish and get enslaved in the Caucasus.

It's such an unbelievably terrible period of history, but I hope Project Caesar will approach the subject it with care.

 

[Oglesby]

My thoughts on the UI and images presented. Yes, I understand it is WiP. So is everything else we have been talking about in the forums.

So what do we have. The disaster panel and two tool tips.

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Disaster Panel
What should the disaster panel provide? Information that pertains to the Disaster, naturally. Here is a break down of what I think that information consists of.

1. Name of disaster and any description / flavor text on the disaster.
2. Information needed to assess the disaster.
   • This is information that is needed to reach the conclusion or explain the conditions.
   • Don't make us looks at multiple other pages to get the information needed if possible.
3. Conditions stemming from the disaster.
4. Actions that can be taken because of the disaster.

Spoiler: Disaster panel

Lets look at the panel presented

• Title in the frame and I assume the cut off section at the bottom is flavor description.
• Top third of the panel is the 3d portrait and throne room (on fire?)
  • This does not provide information towards disaster.
  • This feels like it is here to justify the time, effort, and money that has been spent and is still being spent on the throne rooms and 3d models (as I feared).
  • Remove this section as it just takes up space.
• The section after does appear to contain (some of the) information on the disaster (Item 2 on my list).
  • I am wondering if the question book and checkmark seal could be up in the frame with the title as I thing it would be hard to always come up with something to left justify in the crown power position for every disaster.
  • Per the description after that is showing the crown power on the first line and the estate power on the second
    • Why is one a percentage and the others a donut chart?
    • This would be better served with a single donut chart so I don't have to move my eyes as far to compare sizes or all individual values.
      • I am okay with the single donut using the crown and estate colors which also removes the red/green)
      • Probably have callouts to the Icons with the additional Crown/Estate info
  • How does the current setup function for the places with extra estates?
  • Is the lightning bolt meant to indicate the satisfaction of the estates?
    • I think the actual level would be beneficial so we can see how close we are to 85%
    • Why is there a lightning bolt by the Crown power? is it also not satisfied?
  • I agree that the sword feels misplaced on the Commoner's estate icon. Maybe change to spear and pitchfork or a torch and pitchfork.
  • This section should have some indication on how long the disaster has been active as it is a requirement to conclude. (Progress bar?)
  • The Absolutism vs Liberalism 'graph' should be displayed (possibly with the -80 and +25 points marked)
  • This could be the awkward one and might not be possible to find a good method to display, but some indication of the estate privileges provided or at least the total.
• The next section appears to show the conditions caused by the disaster (my item 3)
  • If I am reading it right it is a progress bar with the charge rate listed
    • I assume if I hover it will provide the exact progress,
    • Can it also give a expected time of occurrence assuming the rate doesn't change so we don't have to do the math every time ourselves?
  • If there are other conditions caused by the disaster they should be listed here
• The last section shown appears to be the Actions we can take. (fulfils #4)
  • Looks good, I am assuming that the tool tips would indicate both the condition to press the button (even if it is not greyed out) and the effects of pressing the button.

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End Requirements Tooltip
I like the addition of the explicit check boxes and tree lines. My only suggestions here are probably a matter of taste.

Spoiler: Mockup of End Requirements

• Have the vertical lines start from the check box to which it belongs.
  • This unifies that it is part of that requirement and also takes up less horizontal space.
  • This would also help delineate if you use different styles for or/and groupings and complete/incomplete indications.
• Turn the first line up so it appears to come from the checked seal (and matches the motif of the checkboxes) instead of off to the edge of the void.
• I am fine with having different styles for and/or grouping (line type) and to indicate if a branch is complete/incomplete (color or thickness)
• To list current values or not
  • For a Disaster requirements tooltip I am fine without listing the current values as they should be listed on the panel already
  • If this is going to be a generic 'requirements' style I would think that they are a good thing

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Advice Tooltip

Spoiler: The tooltip

• Is this specific advice or just general advice.
  • Please don't list things I cannot do. In Vic3's advice for lobbies it includes suggestions that are already valid/enacted. Please don't tell me I can increase this by having an alliance if I already have an alliance.
• Has no advice towards the other (non-obvious) requirements (I realize it is WiP, but still not something to forget)
  • I don't need to be told how to wait ten years or remove Priveleges
  • What about affecting Abs v Lib?
  • What about increasing Satisfaction

---

I do like the title image and the three other images presented. I do also appreciate all the work that has gone into this.

 

[matfer13]

Food for thought...

Yeah what about the Sikhs? They should cause a bit of turmoil

 

[Pavía]

What do the buttons in the court and country do? don't tell me that you just press them,make a estate more loyal,wait for the cooldown and so on.Like the government mechanic buttons from EU4 which were extremely shallow and uninteresting.

Without going much into detail:
- 'Legitime Parliament Abolition' has 2 effects.
- 'Reinstate the Legislative Assembly' has 1 fixed effect and 4 variable effects.
- 'Rein in Nobles', 'Burghers', 'Clergy', and 'Peasants' trigger a different event each, with 3 different options per event, with different effects each.

The effects usually interact with other systems and mechanics, so for instance, the first two will impact how the Parliament of your country works, while the other is about the management of the Estates (which is also interconnected with the Parliament, among other features).

 

[Pavía]

Can we mod situations so they may or may not appear depending on the world's context and situation?

Both Situations and Disasters are 100% moddable.

 

[matfer13]

You've just made us reveal the true name of the game, Imperator Iron Crusader Victoria Universalis Stellaris!

Nice try! But we all know that this game is marxh of the eagles 2!

 

[Katana500]

A few ideas for disasters for the Scotland

Scotland

The Marian Civil War​

Description:
A crisis of faith and politics has erupted in Scotland, as the kingdom grapples with its divided loyalties. A Protestant majority, emboldened by reform, seeks to steer the nation toward alignment with Protestant England, abandoning the centuries-old Franco-Scottish alliance. Meanwhile, defenders of the Catholic faith resist these changes, determined to uphold the traditional alliance with France and the monarchy’s Catholic identity.

Disaster Conditions:
This disaster is likely to trigger if:

• Scotland has a Protestant majority (50% or more of the population with Protestant faith).
• The State Religion or Monarch is Catholic.
• Scotland is allied with France.

Resolution Options:

1. Abandon the Auld Alliance
   • Break the alliance with France.
   • Form an alliance with England
   • Perhaps place protestant pretender on the throne (if applicable)
2. Reaffirm the Franco-Scottish Alliance
   • Preserve the alliance with France
   • Repress Protestant factions and maintain Catholic authority.

The Rise of the Covenanters

Description:

Amid growing tensions over religious practice and royal authority, a powerful movement has emerged in Scotland, fervent defenders of Presbyterianism reject any attempt to impose foreign religious practices or royal control over the Church. Fearing the threat of royal absolutism, many nobles have joined their ranks. Together with notable Presbyterian ministers, representatives from the burghers, and several minor gentry, they have drafted a landmark document, the National Covenant.

The Covenanters, as they have become known, pledge their loyalty both to “the true religion” and to royal authority, but only within limits far below those of European absolutist monarchs. Copies of the Covenant were swiftly carried from Edinburgh throughout all Scotland.

Disaster Conditions:
This disaster is likely to trigger if:

• Scotland is Reformed/Calvinist
• Influence of the Crown estate is too high
• Clergy, Burghers and Nobility are unhappy

Perhaps this event could be more likely to trigger if the English Civil War does so we can have a proper war of the three kingdoms.

If disaster is not averted the Covenanters may rise up under this flag.

Jacobite Rebellion (for Scotland or UK)
With a foreign monarch now sitting on the throne of Britain, the loyalty of many Scots is in question, particularly among the Highland Clans. With an Unpopular Monarch on the throne, many loyalists to the Stuart cause see this as the moment to reclaim the throne for the true King. The Highland clans, led by XYZ known as the 'Old Pretender,' have rallied to raise the banner of the exiled Stuarts. The Jacobite Rebellion has begun, with many Scots hoping to restore the Stuart dynasty and throw off the yoke of the XYZ. The Jacobites call for the return of the true heir, some wanting to restore Scotland’s rightful place as an independent kingdom, others wanting to maintain Great Britain with a Scottish ruler at the helm.
Disaster Conditions:

This disaster is likely to trigger if:

• The monarch of Great Britain or Scotland is not of Scottish culture
• The current monarch is unpopular
  

If disaster is not averted the Jacobites may rise up under this flag.

Second Jacobite Rising

The flames of rebellion have once again been rekindled in Scotland. With the United Kingdom embroiled in a major war with a great European power, many Scots see an opportunity to restore the Stuart monarchy. Led by the young Bonnie Prince/Princess XYZ, the Jacobite forces rally to the banner of the old kings, hoping that the chaos of the war will provide the perfect moment to strike.

This disaster may trigger if:

• The monarch of Great Britain or Scotland is not of Scottish culture
• The first jacobite rising disaster triggered and was unsuccesful
• The UK is embroiled in a major war with another Great Power
  
  In the second Rising the Jacobites could use this flag.
  
  
  

 

[Pavía]

You mentioned early about how situations are heavily scripted. Any chance we will get some generic situations any country can get? I think one of the biggest strengths of any grand strat game is its dynamicity, and having situations only play out 1 way, and only under specific circumstances reduces that, and so I want the situations to be resolvable in a good number of different ways.

Situations are usually impacting more than one country, that's the main difference with Disasters.

 

[BenomXDD]

I really think it would be better if most disasters are not unique to regions or states.

 

[Panamaniacs]

Is there a generic disaster for a catastrophic loss in battle? Something like Manzikert, Ankara, or Nancy that effectively ends a state's ability to function either temporarily or permanently. I know the Burgundian succession and the ottoman interregnum are probably hard coded, but plenty of similarly catastrophic battles existed across the timeline of the game, and depending on how they were handled could lead to the end of the state, even if the war in which they occurred didn't do so originally.

 

[theEXPERTpt]

For Portugal we can have disasters related to the dinastic crisis of 1383-85 in Portugal, the failed conquest of Tangiers, the battle of Alcácer Quibir and the dinastic crisis of 1580, the black plague, etc

 

[wkscrombie]

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesday where we give you information about our upcoming super secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will be talking about the disaster system, which has been present in different forms in recent GSG games from Paradox.

Disasters
There are two major differences between a disaster and a situation. The first is that a disaster is almost always negative, and secondly a disaster is always for a specific country. While multiple situations can be active and involving a country at the same time, only a single disaster can happen at the same time.

There are also two categories of disasters. The specific historical narratives, and the generic ones that can happen to anyone under the right circumstances.

Disasters in Project Caesar are not just a modifier applied to the country, and some events triggering until you fulfill the winning conditions, but you also get unique actions you can do to affect the disaster.

Let's start looking at some common more generic disasters.

Court and Country
Resistance to the growing centralization in our country has culminated in a period of general crisis and conflict between Court and Country. Depending on how we handle this time of crisis we might come out of it a stronger country than before.

This disaster can happen to any country with strong Absolutism or Crown Power in the Age of Absolutism or Age of Revolution.

View attachment 1232750
The Nobility has taken the biggest offence to this plan

As you can see above here the UI for this disaster shows your current crown power, and the power of your estates, while also showing the rebel closest to starting a civil war. It also lists the current actions you have in the disaster. Here we cannot rein in the Nobility, as they are too strong already.

Two of the icons above have special tooltips that are useful for you as well.

View attachment 1232749
You have to endure it for at least a decade..

View attachment 1232748
In case you don’t know how to increase crown power..


Religious TurmoilView attachment 1232747

Despite the country's efforts to mediate between the different religious groups in our nation, conflicts have been erupting on a regular basis. The situation has worsened and without drastic measures, we will soon be engulfed in a religious civil war.

This disaster can occur during the Age of Reformation for any Catholic country or any country following any Protestant religion, if they have a low enough religious unity and a weak clergy estate.

To get out of this disaster there are multiple ways: get religious unity higher; get the power of the clergy much higher as a spiritualist; or go full humanist, while restoring stability.

While this disaster is happening, there will be a lot of conflict from religious minorities in the country.



If we look into some of the country specific ones, we have a few here, and we don’t want to spoil them all..

The Rise of Savonarola
View attachment 1232746

An upstart preacher has started to spread his apocalyptic message, advocating for repentance and reform. His message is causing quite a stir among the population, and it's for sure a sign of changing times.

This is a disaster that is likely to happen to Florence in the last decades of the 15th century, if they are a Catholic republic.

To get out of this disaster you either have to become a Theocracy or Savonarola will have to die.


War of the Roses
View attachment 1232745

Two junior branches of the House of Plantagenet, the House of Lancaster and the House of York, both claim to be the rightful heir to the throne of England. Sporadic fights between their supporters have already broken out in a number of provinces around the country. Their heraldic symbols, a red rose and a white rose, have already become synonymous with the conflict now commonly known as the War of the Roses.

This is a specific disaster for England which can happen during the 15th century if the ruling dynasty is Plantagenet, and some specific historical events have happened. It will allow you to side with either York or Lancaster as it will build up to a civil war for the throne.



So, which historical events do you think would be best represented by a disaster? Post your suggestions here..

Now, you either get a Christmas present next Wednesday, or you get a lump of coal…

Why limit disasters to only fire one at a time? I get that having to deal with multiple simultaneously would be brutal, but that should just provide more incentive to play carefully to avoid them (and provide some wild challenges for hardcore risktakers). To say nothing of the fact that historically speaking, a disaster is more likely to occur during periods of preexisting instability.

 

[HansFlammenwerfer]

Would something like the Treaty of Tordesillas be a situation? And what about breaking it; in EU4, you suffered no real consequence except making the Pope slightly annoyed with you (nothing a few indulgences couldn't buy). Surely, if England or Portugal were settling Spain's God-Given land (literally), there'd be a more signficant consequence -- maybe enough to qualify as a disaster?

 

[BlackPrince]

Is there a disaster that may occur after you disinherit a legal heir? Because in EU4 you may take that action without any punishment, which makes absolutely no sense from a historical perspective.

 

[Kotyk-durkotyk]

I cannot think of any precise mechanics, but maybe among the generic disasters there can be purely economic one, connected with markets, goods, prices etc.
It even must not be very severe and complicated, just a minor challenge.

inspired by the Dutch Tulip mania.