Tinto Talks #45 - 8th of January 2025

[Chanquis]

We have some things like that, pops demand more fur in climates with higher maximum winter for example. Suggestions for more things like that are welcome

Do certain demands also change not only by climate but per season, for example requiring more "turrón" or "polvorones" as Christmas aproach?

Joke aside though, does demand of certain goods change per season too?

 

[Blackcat321]

The 3 types of terrain are quite hard coded as they impact the visuals and also so they are optimised, but you can add custom modifiers to locations like "Heavy Magical Activity" that has more or less the same effect as a terrain type.

Can you add more variants to a terrain type? For example a new topography.

 

[Kotyk-durkotyk]

We have some things like that, pops demand more fur in climates with higher maximum winter for example. Suggestions for more things like that are welcome

1. What about attrition losses in different climates? Arctic, hot arid, jungles probably should have some impact on armies from different regions.
2. Deserts should have higher sand base production
3. Mountains, plateau should have higher stone base production
4. Woods, forests should have higher lumber base production

 

[GeneralUrist]

"Severe Winter" restricted to arctic climate? Too restrictive, means many places like parts of Russia and Canada infamous for their harsh winters can never get Severe Winter. Plus since oceans freezing and being blocked to ships requires Severe Winter, it means places like the Baltic that froze over historically cannot. Unless the freezing threshold was changed to just Normal Winter.

 

[Hatsefiets]

additive like all our GSGs

One of the main problems with additive modifiers is when you get multiple negative modifiers, as this greatly affects their impact. Is it possible to make it so that either modders can make either all or only certain modifiers multiplicative OR negative modifiers are multiplicative and positive modifiers are additive? I would personally prefer the second option as this would make it so that even if modifier stacking becomes prevalent in PC, against the intensions of the dev team as I've understood them, the impact would be less? Stacking negative modifiers would have diminishing returns, and stacking positive modifiers would effectively reduce returns too

 

[perceval350]

Wow, this looks really amazing!

I just have a suggestion on the possible and highly requested vegetation change mechanic.
If deforestation is implemented, you should also implement reforestation mechanic in the locations, that lost significant part of their population (at least due to the Black Death).

According to the scientists, the Black Death caused significant reforestation in Europe in the following ~100 years.
Here is a France example from Mather et al. (1999):
View attachment 1241070

Here is a table with some calculated forest cover data in Europe from Kaplan et al. (2009):
View attachment 1241069

Of course, that should be limited only to relevant regions/climates. Not expected in tundra or deserts.

And thank you for your dedication!

This would also work in great in America with the continent being a lot less populated after the columbian exchange and therefor forests taking over again !

 

[Goblin Slave]

Is there a map mode for a provinces/locations/regions/countries population capacity, or do you have to select each location/province to find out? It seems like it would be helpful for plotting out the best lands in your country to develop, as well as a useful tool to see the potential of your rivals and allies.

 

[Miffelman]

Can vegetation be modded back onto sea tiles or is this hard coded?

 

[Sulphurologist]

We have some things like that, pops demand more fur in climates with higher maximum winter for example. Suggestions for more things like that are welcome

Considering modifiers for winter, mountains are impassable during normal or severe winter.
But I was wondering, shouldn't there also be an additional movement speed reduction for units in specific terrain during winter?

That way units are indirectly exposed to higher attrition rates and food consumption, making winter campaigns more punishing.

Something along the lines of this:

Army movement speed cost	Mild Winter	Normal Winter	Severe Winter
Wetlands	+25% (wet season)	+25% (wet or partly frozen, both treacherous)	+10% (thick ice cover, more accessible)
Flatlands	0	+5%	+10%
Plateau	+5%	+10%	+20%
Hills	+15%	+30%	+60%
Mountains	+50%	+100% / Impassable	Impassable
Desert/Sparse/Grassland/Farmland	0	0	0
Woods	+5%	+10%	+20%
Forest	+10%	+25%	+50%

Disclaimer: all modifiers are of course relative indications and not to be taken literally.

 

[perceval350]

yes thats true

Considering that warfare is going to be much more opaque and unpredictable (which I'm absolutly a fan of) would it be possible to have a sort of "scouting" mechanic.
You could have a mechanic that allows you to set an army as the scout of the other. You could then assign different automatic orders to that scouting army.
For example, there could be an order that makes the scouting army advance one or several tiles in front of its attached army, that way it acts as a scouting party/vanguard
You could also have an order that makes one or several scouting armies make rounds around your army to scout

Then you could also assign a stance those army take, if they see another army, do they attack or do they wait for you to attack, do they run back to you. If an army is caught in a fight, should it try to escape as quick as possible (if you built it more like a scouting party with quick units), or should it stay and fight while waiting for the main forces (if you built it more like a vanguard with units that can hold on while the army is comming

Would that be possible to implement ?

 

[Wildrake]

We have some things like that, pops demand more fur in climates with higher maximum winter for example. Suggestions for more things like that are welcome

More lumber or alternative coal/charcoal during winter?

 

[perceval350]

Countries always have vision in:

• land they are present in, e.g:
  • controlled land including occupations of foreign land
  • colonial charters
  • buildings
  • units
• owned Core locations
  • even if they are occupied during war

Blocked vision from terrain counts only for peering into adjacent locations that you are not currently present in.

Wouldn't be cool if having let's say for example under 10% control in a location takes away the vision even if you own it ?

 

[Old_Sealand]

Nice

 

[Mezirsha]

Can de-/reforestation be represented as a location modifier, if the vegetation type base cannot be changed? Gradually (or radically) changing the bonuses to another vegetation type with a decision/RGO/event/disaster/situation? Changing vegetation seems a very historical and and impactful thing to happen in many parts of the world during the game time frame.

I assume it would be difficult to change the map to reflect that, but I think I can try to live with that if the terrain map is beautiful enough

Other than that I am happy to see that so much detail goes into terrain

 

[Briloner]

With the amount of detail being put into Project Caesar I was wondering if there have been any stability/performance tests for multiplayer at this point, or has the game not yet reached a stage where a multiplayer test game could be done to check for performance issues?

Nope, it is just a very beautiful walking-simulator.

 

[lxlTiagolxl]

VEGETATION
​

If terrain can't be changed then at least part of vegetation modifiers could be moved to a new forestation related stat, or if it can be changed then the Vegetation type could be modified depending in part on the stat while the stat itself would have less effect.

The stat could work from 0 to 100 with it's growth or reduction being related to wood extraction, population size, building and road existence, policies, and others, while it's effects, growth and reduction could also be partialy counter-related to development.

Basically if terrain can't be changed then higher values of the stat could have some of the modifiers of Forest and Jungle, medium values some of the ones from Woods, while low values could have some from Farmland as long as there also is enought development.

Also if there is a forestation related stat then FARMLAND as a terrain type could be eliminated turning it into an effect related to having high development and low forest, maybe considering the ratio between the two, also some limitations based on climate and topography would be needed otherwise something like a highly developed and low forested desert with a farmland effect could happen.​

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CLIMATE AND TOPOGRAPHY​

Those are mainly beyond human intervention on the game timespan, but Wetlands will really need some way to negate some effects or even create positive ones based on buildings and maybe also in development, as a highly developed wetland is probably not really a marsh anymore but a polder.​

 

[BI0ck]

Plateau
Movement Cost for Armies +25%
Attacker Diceroll in Battle -1
Maximum Frontage in Battle -1
Road Build time +50%
RGO Build time +25%
Development Growth -25%
Blocks Vision from Adjacent Sea

They represent relatively flat areas situated at high altitude, so they have some penalties compared to flatlands due to their elevation.

#1: It's weird to me that plateau blocks adjacent sea vision, considering as far as I can tell there are no coastal plateaus in the game (though obviously you could mod the game to add them.)
#2; I feel like adjacent non-plateau provinces shouldn't have vision on the plateau. Like, if I'm on the plateau and there's a neighboring plateau, I can obviously see the other army. But if I'm on a flatlands province next to the plateau, I shouldn't be able to see any armies waiting up there for me.
(Similarly, I feel that mountains should be able to see onto neighboring plateaus, and maybe even neighboring hills, due to the high vantage point.)

 

[SAmaster]

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CLIMATE AND TOPOGRAPHY​

Those are mainly beyond human intervention on the game timespan, but Wetlands will really need some way to negate some effects or even create positive ones based on buildings and maybe also in development, as a highly developed wetland is probably not a really a marsh anymore.​

With regards to wetlands, I've been thinking. In EUIV they had the 'expand infrastructure mechanic' and I think that should largely come into play here without too many changes. Previously I proposed that expand infrastructure should also increase troop movement speed, but I think that instead could be done with the existence of towns/cities and the road building mechanic they added.

But I'm thinking that there could be a more specific version for wetlands, atolls, and coastal provinces 'land reclamation'. It was naturally done by the Venetians in the Venetian Lagoon, and used in Boston and New York even in the colonial period, and I'm sure we can find several more examples (the Dutch). These land-reclamation bonuses could be used to completely outweigh the negatives (or at least some of them) of a province with enough investment.

 

[Sigismund der Münzreiche]

The issue is that you are forgetting the fact that the locality represent the valleys and that even despite that the valleys are already represented to be colder than they are, check a koppen climate map of Italy and you would see that places like Bolzano are oceanic or even subtropical there and are made to be continental in game as they averaged out the valley with higher ground.

Again you are saying they should do something they already do, hence double dipping. Continental climate is definided by having the coldest month colder than 0/3 degrees celsius and mountain valleys being continental compared to the plains does indeed represent the fact they have colder winters.

So first up I do not forget valleys. I live in a valley. Bozen is only about an hour away from me btw and it's an exageration to say it's subtropical there. Yes in South Tyrol overall the climate is a lot milder than in North Tyrol but I fail to see how this local peculiarity disproves my overall point but whatever. What I absolutely don't understand about what your saying is your description of continental climate. You say: "mountain valleys being continental compared to the plains does indeed represent the fact they have colder winters" That statement just leaves me baffled. Continental climate isn't tied to elevation or mountains. Large parts of the european plains have continental climate both in reality and in game.

 

[theolaa]

The 3 types of terrain are quite hard coded as they impact the visuals and also so they are optimised, but you can add custom modifiers to locations like "Heavy Magical Activity" that has more or less the same effect as a terrain type.

I understand not being able to add a fourth layer, but what about adding/removing types from the existing layers? For example, I can imagine creating an "Urban" vegetation type (maybe terrain type? Not 100% which fits best) or something like that. Are those kinds of modifications possible?