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Tinto Maps #17 - 6th of September 2024 - Arabia

Hello everyone, and welcome to one more developer diary for map lovers! This is the second this week, after the review of Poland, Ruthenia, and the Baltic. Hurray!

Today we will be taking a look at the lands of Arabia! So let’s start, without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.png

Colored Wastelands.png
This week, we have two country maps: one without colored wastelands for clarity, and one with them under the spoiler button. You might also wonder why there isn’t a third one with the Societies of Pops for the region. Well, that’s because Project Caesar has several layers to portray the simulation of a believable world (if you remember, one of our design pillars). A couple of weeks we presented the Societies of Pops as a new type of country, but if you go back to Tinto Talks #4, the Government Overview, Johan mentioned the different types of governments, which now you know are for Settled Countries. One of them is Tribal, which we think makes for a good representation of the most complex and organized tribal societies, which have some estate-like features while keeping some other tribal features.

Therefore, the way we’ve decided that fits better to portray the simulation of the Arabian Peninsula is having a divide between those countries that are Monarchies (Mecca, Yemen, Oman, Ormus, and the Jarwanids), and those that are Tribal (the rest of them). An interesting feature of the latter is that their lands will be full of Tribesmen pops, making the Tribal estate the most important one to manage. As a final note, I’d like you to understand that this is our interpretation for the simulation of the game, although it might not be the only one (as it happened with the discussions about which European countries should be decentralized with several subjects, and which shouldn’t). The good news regarding this is that we will be open to feedback and making changes, as usual; but also, that this setup can easily be changed through the script of the game, thus making it completely moddable after the game is released; so there could potentially be mods making inner Arabia covered by Societies of Pops instead of Tribal Settled countries, if you don’t like/agree with our interpretation, or just prefer it to be different.


Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Among the dynasties of the region, you might find some old acquaintances, such as the Rasulids of Yemen or the Nabhani of Oman, while also having a bunch of new ones. And not a week without a bug, of course: the ‘al-Al’ prefix is an error, as those dynasties are using a locative, which is mixed with a second one, from the location; we will have that fixed, then.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
The locations of the region, with more detailed maps under the spoiler button for three different sections (Northern and Central Arabia, Southern Arabia, and Eastern Arabia).

Provinces:
Provinces.png


Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

You might notice that most of Arabia is an arid, desertic plateau. The only exception to this is some fertile mountain valleys in Yemen, which was known as Eudaimon Arabia/Arabia Felix for a reason.

Natural Harbors:
Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

The cultural division of the region is quite interesting, as it’s divided into several Arabic-speaking people. And for those that might wonder, yes, Socotra has its own culture, Soqotri. We still have to add some minorities here and there, though, so we will take the opportunity to do it during the map review.

Religions:
Religions.png

The religious division of Arabia is also interesting, having Sunni, Shiite, and Ibady majorities spread across the peninsula. We have yet to address the minorities, which were not ready for the Tinto Maps, so we will show what that looks like on the map, and review as well. By the way, we might do some work in the coming weeks regarding Islam, and one of the things that I think we may tweak is the coloring, as Ibadi is too similar to Shiite; so I think that this might be a good opportunity to ask for your preferences about the coloring of the different branches of the Islamic faith.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

Dates, livestock, horses, and some wheat and sand make for a healthy economy if you’re a Tribal country, I guess? Jokes aside, the desertic lands of Northern and Central Arabia have a more simple resource distribution, while Yemen and Oman, on the other hand, have quite rich resources, such as Pearls, Alum, Copper, Dyes, Silk, and Coffee (who doesn’t like a good mocha?).

Markets:
Markets.png

There are five market centers present in this region: Mecca, Al-Hajar, Al-Hasa’, Hormoz, and ‘Adan. Coupled with the resources in the previous section, the control over ‘Adan and Hormoz will be strategically relevant, as it was historically.

Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
This week there aren’t (almost) issues with the population of the region, so we’re able to show it to you. The entire region has around 4.5M pops, which are unevenly distributed; Yemen has 1.6M, and Mecca 776K, making for more than half of the total, while a good chunk of it belongs to the Mamluks (that control all the area around Madina.

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, I have good news: we have finished the feedback review of Anatolia, and therefore I’ll post it on Monday! That way it will make for a week without a Tinto Talks more bearable. And on Friday, there will be maps for a new region, Iran and the Caucasus! See you!
 
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Najdi culture is still mispelled.

It's weird to have Khaleeji culture split in half by Baharna. Also note that Baḥārna is the plural form grammatically of Baḥrāniyy or Baḥrainiyy. Saying Baharna culture is like saying "Serbs culture", "Croats culture" or "Poles culture". Baḥrānī or just Bahrani would be a superior alternative.

Your Arabic transcription is still highly inconsistent. Diacritics are nice ig but I'd prefer not having them in a consistent spelling to having them but having like 3 different standards as you have now. Please go over all the cultures and locations with someone who knows Arabic decently well and make sure it all makes sense/you're using diacritics in the same way. I personally wouldn't mind having separate spellings for different parts of the Arab world, but within the Arabian peninsula itself is kind of ridiculous.


I like what you have for Sunni and Shia a lot. The dark green of EU4 would be fine for Ibadi if you ask me.

Al Hajr market seems kind of superfluous, no?

Socotra should be Nestorian, not Miaphysite.
Speaking of hardly known Nestorian minorities, I’m watching out for India later.
 
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Well, the choice to make Shi'ism one religion becomes especially ridiculous now that we are in the Arabian Peninsula where all the most contrasting Shi'i sects are present.

You have the Zaydis in the highlands of Yemen who believe that the Imam can be anyone descended from Ali and is not a strictly hereditary position, instead elected from the most capable and just of Sayyids. Their shari'a has varied throughout history leaning towards either Sunnism or that of other Shi'ites, and they don't even fully condemn the first two Caliphs who rejected Ali. The Imam, the true successor of Muhammad and Ali, is still a present figure but treated more like a first among equals who is held accountable by his peers.

Yet just to the north of them are the Tayyibis of Najran. As Isma'ilis, they follow the line of Imams from Muhammad ibn Isma'il, up to the seclusion of Al-Tayyib. In his place, the Da'i at-Mutlaq acts as the leader of the community. The Isma'ilis are structured like a secret society, where you are born into the religion but considered only an initiate who is restricted from the full tenets and practices of the faith until you are formally inducted into the religion. The figure of the Da'i at-Mutlaq is very central to the religion. As the deputy of the Imam of the Age, the Da'i is considered infallible and is a venerated saint-like figure. Ismai'lis reject an exoteric interpretation of Shari'a entirely, embracing the esotericism of Sufi mysticism.

The Zaydis of Yemen and Tayyibis of Najran also were hostile to each other and would not have considered each-other to be the members of the same "group".

Moving over to eastern Arabia, the Shi'ites there were predominantly Twelver also known as Imami or Ithna'asari. Believing that the line of Imams ended with Muhammad al-Mahdi who will one day return as a messianic figure, in his place religious authority largely lies with the ulema: experts of religious law and judges. Though really, Twelvers are very diverse and vary in place and time, in other places the Sufi element is more predominant and the Sufi masters are the most important spiritual authority. Either way, fundamentally anyone can be a law expert or mystic teacher (even if there is strong preference for sayyids), and Twelvers are the most decentralized, diverse and widespread of the Shi'i sects, much like Sunnism in that regard.

This is all to say: Please split Shi'ism into multiple religions.
To add to this, Sufi saints had a prominent presence in West Africa. They were integral to the spread of Islam there (although at this time I believe the religion map there overstates the reach which would be limited to cosmopolitan centers around 1337). The Maliki school there is Sunni, however.
 
Sharifat Mecca should have been a Shia country in 1337.

The new foreign policy orientation was accompanied by a confessional change among the Sharifs. Abū Numaiy I and most of his direct descendants were still Zaidi Shiites. Accordingly, the call to prayer in the Great Mosque was carried out according to the Shiite rite in his time, and the Zaidis had their own prayer group in the Holy Mosque , which was led by a Zaidi imam. [ 30 ] As early as the beginning of the 14th century, the Mamluk sultans called on the Sharifs to suppress the Shiite call to prayer in Mecca and to withdraw the Zaidi imam from the Holy Mosque. [ 47 ] However, most of the Sharifs held on to the Zaidi-Shiite faith. Humaida's alliance with the Ilkhan Öljaitü also had a Shiite background. Öljaitü had previously converted to Shia Islam, and after the successful conclusion of Humaida's campaign in the Hejaz in 1316, the bones of the two caliphs Abu Bakr and Umar ibn al-Khattab, who were hated by the Shiites, were to be removed from Muhammad's tomb in Medina . [ 33 ]

In particular, Rumaitha ibn Abī Numaiy, who was co-regent from 1321, showed sympathy for the Zaidīya. He even had the prayers said for Muhammad ibn al-Mutahhar (r. 1301–1327), the Zaidi Imam of Yemen. [ 48 ] His brother ʿUtaifa, who exercised sole power from 1326, forcibly expelled the Zaidi Imam from the Holy Mosque, although this was not done out of inner conviction, but only in fulfillment of an order from the Mamluk Sultan. As the Mamluk author Ibn Fadlallāh al-ʿUmarī (d. 1348) reports, ʿUtaifa's son confided to him that the emirs of Mecca felt obliged to obey only the Zaidi Imam of Sanaa and considered themselves his representatives. They cooperated with the rulers of Egypt, he explained, only because they feared them and received enfeoffment from them; they flattered the Rasulid rulers of Yemen in order to receive further gifts and charities from them. [ 49 ]

In the second half of the 14th century, the Meccan Sharifs began to convert to Sunni Islam. Ibn Taghribirdi reports of ʿAjlan ibn Rumaitha, who ruled Mecca from 1346 to 1361 with interruptions and then continuously until 1375 : "Unlike his forefathers and relatives, he loved the Sunnis and supported them against the Shiites. It has also been said that he followed the Shafi'i madhhab ." [ 50 ] ʿAjlan was also the first Sharif to establish a madrasa in Mecca . [ 51 ] His son al-Hasan, who ruled in Mecca from 1396 to 1426 with two brief interruptions, was also firmly committed to the Sunni tradition. Like his father, he established a madrasa in Mecca. Shams ad-Dīn as-Sachāwī (d. 1497) reports that he studied hadith with a number of Egyptian and Syrian scholars and received an ijazah from them . All subsequent Sharif rulers of the 15th century also received training in Sunni hadith. [ 52 ]

Even though the later Sharifs officially professed the Shafi'i school of thought, to which most Meccans also belonged, they were not long able to shake off the reputation of secretly following Zaidi teachings. As late as the early 19th century, when Jean Louis Burckhardt visited Mecca, he was told that the Sharifs living in Mecca avoided legal discussions in which Zaidi teachings were disapproved of, and that the Sharifs outside the city also openly admitted their affiliation with the Zaidis.
 
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Population and trade:
In Eastern Arabia the population was concentrated in just 3 cities, the largest is Al-Hasa, then Second Al-Qatif, then Al-Bahrain island, the rest of the locations would have mostly evenly distrubuted population.

The main pearl trade center of the bahrain side of the gulf was concentrated in Al-bahrain, and secondary in Al-Qatif.

The locations of Sayhat and Jubayl could have fish or dates, and some of their population transferred to Al-qatif.

Al-hasa was and is still famous for dates.

Nita, Harad and the khaliji area would have horses as material, as the tribes their were famous for trading horses to the Mamluks and to the Indian sultanates.

al-Uqayr was the main port of eastern arabia and nejd as it had small sand reef to protect the ships from winds, this could mean that it would have very small natural port bonus.

Mascat was known to be the main natural port of oman, as its oriantation towards the north protects the ships from the winds around the year.

Sur was noted by Albuquerque to have a natural port, smaller then muscat, but was promising to be a good port city.

Hormus island had 2 ports, eastern and western, protecting ships all around the year, and had a startegic location at the gulf's entrance, and was the main trade port in all of eastern arabia and southern persia, better then sur, muscat, and al-uqayr.

Political:
Hormus had firm control of the entire oman coast, from julfar to sur, and bahrain island.

Jarwanids had only control of al-hasa and al-qatif (baharna area) and were Hormus tributury or protectorate.

North of qatif until kazima (the khaliji area) was under control of al-umayr, the remains of usfurids, who were shia.

West and south of al-hasa including yabrin (the nejdi area) was under control of Jabrids, who historically took over eastern arabia, and they were sunni, Banu Yas could be their vassel, as they extended their influence until oman.

Al-umayr and the Jabrids are famous as horse traders.

Qatar have low population and can be given to jabrids or jarwanids on your convenience.

I can provide sources if requested.

Hello everyone, and welcome to one more developer diary for map lovers! This is the second this week, after the review of Poland, Ruthenia, and the Baltic. Hurray!

Today we will be taking a look at the lands of Arabia! So let’s start, without further ado:

Countries:
View attachment 1184278
This week, we have two country maps: one without colored wastelands for clarity, and one with them under the spoiler button. You might also wonder why there isn’t a third one with the Societies of Pops for the region. Well, that’s because Project Caesar has several layers to portray the simulation of a believable world (if you remember, one of our design pillars). A couple of weeks we presented the Societies of Pops as a new type of country, but if you go back to Tinto Talks #4, the Government Overview, Johan mentioned the different types of governments, which now you know are for Settled Countries. One of them is Tribal, which we think makes for a good representation of the most complex and organized tribal societies, which have some estate-like features while keeping some other tribal features.

Therefore, the way we’ve decided that fits better to portray the simulation of the Arabian Peninsula is having a divide between those countries that are Monarchies (Mecca, Yemen, Oman, Ormus, and the Jarwanids), and those that are Tribal (the rest of them). An interesting feature of the latter is that their lands will be full of Tribesmen pops, making the Tribal estate the most important one to manage. As a final note, I’d like you to understand that this is our interpretation for the simulation of the game, although it might not be the only one (as it happened with the discussions about which European countries should be decentralized with several subjects, and which shouldn’t). The good news regarding this is that we will be open to feedback and making changes, as usual; but also, that this setup can easily be changed through the script of the game, thus making it completely moddable after the game is released; so there could potentially be mods making inner Arabia covered by Societies of Pops instead of Tribal Settled countries, if you don’t like/agree with our interpretation, or just prefer it to be different.


Dynasties:
View attachment 1184281
Among the dynasties of the region, you might find some old acquaintances, such as the Rasulids of Yemen or the Nabhani of Oman, while also having a bunch of new ones. And not a week without a bug, of course: the ‘al-Al’ prefix is an error, as those dynasties are using a locative, which is mixed with a second one, from the location; we will have that fixed, then.

Locations:
View attachment 1184282
The locations of the region, with more detailed maps under the spoiler button for three different sections (Northern and Central Arabia, Southern Arabia, and Eastern Arabia).

Provinces:
View attachment 1184286

Areas:
View attachment 1184287

Terrain:
View attachment 1184288
View attachment 1184289
View attachment 1184290
You might notice that most of Arabia is an arid, desertic plateau. The only exception to this is some fertile mountain valleys in Yemen, which was known as Eudaimon Arabia/Arabia Felix for a reason.

Natural Harbors:
View attachment 1184291

Cultures:
View attachment 1184293
The cultural division of the region is quite interesting, as it’s divided into several Arabic-speaking people. And for those that might wonder, yes, Socotra has its own culture, Soqotri. We still have to add some minorities here and there, though, so we will take the opportunity to do it during the map review.

Religions:
View attachment 1184294
The religious division of Arabia is also interesting, having Sunni, Shiite, and Ibady majorities spread across the peninsula. We have yet to address the minorities, which were not ready for the Tinto Maps, so we will show what that looks like on the map, and review as well. By the way, we might do some work in the coming weeks regarding Islam, and one of the things that I think we may tweak is the coloring, as Ibadi is too similar to Shiite; so I think that this might be a good opportunity to ask for your preferences about the coloring of the different branches of the Islamic faith.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1184295
Dates, livestock, horses, and some wheat and sand make for a healthy economy if you’re a Tribal country, I guess? Jokes aside, the desertic lands of Northern and Central Arabia have a more simple resource distribution, while Yemen and Oman, on the other hand, have quite rich resources, such as Pearls, Alum, Copper, Dyes, Silk, and Coffee (who doesn’t like a good mocha?).

Markets:
View attachment 1184296
There are five market centers present in this region: Mecca, Al-Hajar, Al-Hasa’, Hormoz, and ‘Adan. Coupled with the resources in the previous section, the control over ‘Adan and Hormoz will be strategically relevant, as it was historically.

Population:
View attachment 1184297
This week there aren’t (almost) issues with the population of the region, so we’re able to show it to you. The entire region has around 4.5M pops, which are unevenly distributed; Yemen has 1.6M, and Mecca 776K, making for more than half of the total, while a good chunk of it belongs to the Mamluks (that control all the area around Madina.

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, I have good news: we have finished the feedback review of Anatolia, and therefore I’ll post it on Monday! That way it will make for a week without a Tinto Talks more bearable. And on Friday, there will be maps for a new region, Iran and the Caucasus! See you!
 
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Maybe 'major wastelands', for example the big one in the south of Arabia, shouldn't be included as part of any province or area -- they're just their own thing. Also, wastelands should be grayed out like normal provinces in the harbor mapmode -- something to indicate they're not giant bad harbors.
 
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What is the rationale of separating Yemeni, Hadhrami, and Dhofari cultures? Texts from the period don't seem to differentiate between them.
It's not a one-to-one match, but it often seems like they're using Arabic dialects/varieties to determine cultures, as can be seen here (Dhofari is 22, Hadhrami is 25; but note that Yemeni is not split in the game as it is here):

Arabic_Varieties_Map-2023.svg
 
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It's not a one-to-one match, but it often seems like they're using Arabic dialects/varieties to determine cultures, as can be seen here (Dhofari is 22, Hadhrami is 25; but note that Yemeni is not split in the game as it is here):
The map is wholly unrealistic because it groups Tihama with Aden and Ta'iz, Sa'dah with Ibb, and ignores the Arabic dialects in al-Mahrah and inner Dhofar. The point being, if you go by dialect division (and there is plenty of documentation of linguistic quirks from the period, like Tarikh al-Mustabsir by ibn al-Mujawir or the writings of Ibn Battuta), then having a Yemeni culture makes no sense. I would also argue that this is true for the majority of Arab regions.
 
Al-Buraimi should be separated from Al-ʻAyn. Qeshm should be separated from Hormoz.

Here's a source for the traditional divisions of the Arabian Peninsula, giving you a number of early Muslim interpretations for the borders of the Hejaz, Najd and Yemen. I presume you will ignore the broad definitions of Yemen that reach all the way to the Persian Gulf. I'd implement them myself, but, well... I'm not on the payroll.

https://etheses.dur.ac.uk/8115/1/8115_5115.PDF (pages 31-47 of the PDF, which correspond to pages 14-30 of the thesis)
 
Hello everyone, and welcome to one more developer diary for map lovers! This is the second this week, after the review of Poland, Ruthenia, and the Baltic. Hurray!

Today we will be taking a look at the lands of Arabia! So let’s start, without further ado:

Countries:
View attachment 1184278
This week, we have two country maps: one without colored wastelands for clarity, and one with them under the spoiler button. You might also wonder why there isn’t a third one with the Societies of Pops for the region. Well, that’s because Project Caesar has several layers to portray the simulation of a believable world (if you remember, one of our design pillars). A couple of weeks we presented the Societies of Pops as a new type of country, but if you go back to Tinto Talks #4, the Government Overview, Johan mentioned the different types of governments, which now you know are for Settled Countries. One of them is Tribal, which we think makes for a good representation of the most complex and organized tribal societies, which have some estate-like features while keeping some other tribal features.

Therefore, the way we’ve decided that fits better to portray the simulation of the Arabian Peninsula is having a divide between those countries that are Monarchies (Mecca, Yemen, Oman, Ormus, and the Jarwanids), and those that are Tribal (the rest of them). An interesting feature of the latter is that their lands will be full of Tribesmen pops, making the Tribal estate the most important one to manage. As a final note, I’d like you to understand that this is our interpretation for the simulation of the game, although it might not be the only one (as it happened with the discussions about which European countries should be decentralized with several subjects, and which shouldn’t). The good news regarding this is that we will be open to feedback and making changes, as usual; but also, that this setup can easily be changed through the script of the game, thus making it completely moddable after the game is released; so there could potentially be mods making inner Arabia covered by Societies of Pops instead of Tribal Settled countries, if you don’t like/agree with our interpretation, or just prefer it to be different.


Dynasties:
View attachment 1184281
Among the dynasties of the region, you might find some old acquaintances, such as the Rasulids of Yemen or the Nabhani of Oman, while also having a bunch of new ones. And not a week without a bug, of course: the ‘al-Al’ prefix is an error, as those dynasties are using a locative, which is mixed with a second one, from the location; we will have that fixed, then.

Locations:
View attachment 1184282
The locations of the region, with more detailed maps under the spoiler button for three different sections (Northern and Central Arabia, Southern Arabia, and Eastern Arabia).

Provinces:
View attachment 1184286

Areas:
View attachment 1184287

Terrain:
View attachment 1184288
View attachment 1184289
View attachment 1184290
You might notice that most of Arabia is an arid, desertic plateau. The only exception to this is some fertile mountain valleys in Yemen, which was known as Eudaimon Arabia/Arabia Felix for a reason.

Natural Harbors:
View attachment 1184291

Cultures:
View attachment 1184293
The cultural division of the region is quite interesting, as it’s divided into several Arabic-speaking people. And for those that might wonder, yes, Socotra has its own culture, Soqotri. We still have to add some minorities here and there, though, so we will take the opportunity to do it during the map review.

Religions:
View attachment 1184294
The religious division of Arabia is also interesting, having Sunni, Shiite, and Ibady majorities spread across the peninsula. We have yet to address the minorities, which were not ready for the Tinto Maps, so we will show what that looks like on the map, and review as well. By the way, we might do some work in the coming weeks regarding Islam, and one of the things that I think we may tweak is the coloring, as Ibadi is too similar to Shiite; so I think that this might be a good opportunity to ask for your preferences about the coloring of the different branches of the Islamic faith.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1184295
Dates, livestock, horses, and some wheat and sand make for a healthy economy if you’re a Tribal country, I guess? Jokes aside, the desertic lands of Northern and Central Arabia have a more simple resource distribution, while Yemen and Oman, on the other hand, have quite rich resources, such as Pearls, Alum, Copper, Dyes, Silk, and Coffee (who doesn’t like a good mocha?).

Markets:
View attachment 1184296
There are five market centers present in this region: Mecca, Al-Hajar, Al-Hasa’, Hormoz, and ‘Adan. Coupled with the resources in the previous section, the control over ‘Adan and Hormoz will be strategically relevant, as it was historically.

Population:
View attachment 1184297
This week there aren’t (almost) issues with the population of the region, so we’re able to show it to you. The entire region has around 4.5M pops, which are unevenly distributed; Yemen has 1.6M, and Mecca 776K, making for more than half of the total, while a good chunk of it belongs to the Mamluks (that control all the area around Madina.

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, I have good news: we have finished the feedback review of Anatolia, and therefore I’ll post it on Monday! That way it will make for a week without a Tinto Talks more bearable. And on Friday, there will be maps for a new region, Iran and the Caucasus! See you!
The Bani Yas tribal confederacy did not exist till the late 17th Century so the nation of Yas should not exist. Apart from the areas controlled by Hormuz the UAE was probably divided between many unorganised and divided tribes. The successor to the Jarwanids, the Jabrids would subjugate this region later on around the year 1450.

So I think a more accurate representation would be Yas being removed and their provinces being colonisable.
 
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How does Yemen have a higher population than the Byzantine Empire?
The nonstop wars tend to have that sort of effect, both over the territory that they have on the map and over territory that they lost, using population from the territory that they had only recently reconquered.

The Byzzies were not in a good place in 1337.
 
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So as it turns out not only is there the Sharifate of Mecca, but also the Sharifate of Medina. This will be a lot of images, but note that mostly it's to capture the full line of rulers that we know about. That way we can have a full history of the place. Note the dynasty, in accordance with Mecca being the Qatadids, would be the Muhannids (Banu Muhanna).

Note that there's also apparently a Sharifate of Yanbu.

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Here we have an indication of a Sharifate of Yanbu also existing.
1733772564492.png

Note the different dynasty. Since the Sharifate of Mecca in PC is under the Qatatids, there won't be any confusion if Yanbu is under the Hasanids.
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While it is the case that by this period we're starting to see more involvement of the Mamluks in the internal affairs of the Sharifate of Medina, we're not at the point where the state was directly administered from Cairo and it is quite evidently still performing foreign policy (what with all those conflicts with Mecca) as well as having plenty of civil wars. Yanbu is, evidently, a Sharifate of its own though of an unknown history (I sure can't find a damn thing on it aside from this mention and nothing else), but it seems usually paired with Medina that we can probably safely say that Medina had authority over the area.

I would say that in 1337, both Mecca and Medina should be subjects to the Mamluks (by this point the Sharifate of Mecca was also dealing with Mamluk control of taxation and whatnot; the influence of Yemen on Mecca had waned). They would also be in frequent conflict. Historically, eventually the Mamluks (after Mecca more-or-less subjugated Medina) unified the whole thing into one polity, though by that point Medina was little more than a Mamluk governorship (only represented as a distinct vassal due to the perpetual dynastic rule, even if it's the Mamluk sultans selecting which in the family would get to rule).

Additionally, we know that there should be some amount of Shi'a in Medina:
1733776598613.png

So if I had to stick some borders on it... this?
1733780092509.png

Going with a "just carve out the land from the Mamluks" approach here. With all the stuff pasted above it should be possible to reconstruct a political history of who ruled it and the dynasty tree. Again, no Yanbu since as far as I can tell it wasn't a big independent player and mostly was paired with Medina, especially in the later period.

I just ordered a book on the history of Najd that has some details about what's going on elsewhere; I'll make another post once I receive that book.
 

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Alright I got the book and gave it a nice skim.
1733811935500.png

No, not gonna give images pertaining to every citation from this book because it's too long and I paid money for it and I'm pretty sure someone might get upset if I did that. Anyway, onto the suggestion.
Untitled.png

It's a bit of a composite and involves some of Persia as well (relevant to @SuperLexxe). This also requires a corridor to be created between Al Qutayfah and Al-Hamad.

Anyway, countries!
  1. Al Fadl. Yes, the one I suggested own a bunch of land in Syria. Turns out they also just owned a lot of land, period, going all the way to Basra and al-Washm. No, I would not expect them to have all that great control and they would no doubt rapidly lose their grasp on al-Washm. This is desired.
  2. Al 'Ali. Same as the one in Syria; they've got holdings in northern Arabia, too. Hence the corridor request.
  3. Al Mira. Same deal as the other two.
  4. Al A'idh or Banu A'idh ibn Said (likely to be the same entity). A native described their country as "prosperous" and "well-protected".
  5. Banu Kilab, ruling over the sedentary people of Banu Hanifah who were formerly under the rule of Banu al-Akhaydir, mostly just doing their best to exist. Sedentary, in contrast to everyone else.
  6. Shammar, as is already.
  7. Hutaym, as is already.
  8. Anizah, as is already.
  9. Banu Lam. Another (ostensible) descendant of the Tayy, controlling most of Aliyat Najd. Very powerful, though with power comes devolution and in a century they will split into three and ultimately migrate to Iraq.
  10. Sharifate of Medina. See the post immediately above this one for details.
  11. Al-Zafir. Will ultimately migrate east into Najd alongside the Anizah, oftentimes in open conflict with them.
  12. Zib. Offshoot of Banu Sulaym. Will start wandering quite to the east in the 15th through 18th centuries, before disappearing from historical record. Possibly winds up fully merged into Mutayr.
  13. Harb. In the 14th century they hadn't migrated to Najd yet.
  14. Subay, in the middle of their wandering to al-Yamamah.
  15. Dawasir, pushing into al-Yamamah as well.
  16. Qahtan, following closely behind Dawasir, erstwhile allies, eventual enemies.
  17. Otaibah. Will ultimately migrate east into Najd, behind the Subay.
  18. Banu Yam. Will start their migrations into Najd in the 18th century (and by then had split into two branches), but in the meanwhile they're in Najran.
As for excluded countries:
  • Mutayr wasn't a matter of migration; it was a brand new tribal confederation that didn't form until the 16th century in amidst all the chaos
I'll admit it's not perfect (hell if I can find who ruled any of this, for one thing), but this at least now reflects the situation in Najd before the 15th century and 17th century migrations.

Also to note regarding population, Najd in this period is suffering from a significant amount of migration of sedentary pops out from the center (as the nomads take over). This will only be reversed in the 15th century.
 
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Now, as for culture... culture is a complicated beast. For many of these groups, being "of a particular tribe" is of great importance and genealogy is in many regards one of the motivators for whether or not a particular sedentary group would be protected by a given nomadic group. So, if we want to start taking a look at what cultures go where in Arabia, we need to look at the bigger picture of tribes.
  • The Banu Tayy were the originating tribe for the Al Fadl, Al 'Ali, Al Mira, Shammar, and Banu Lam (ostensibly)
  • The Banu Amir were the originating tribe for the Banu Kilab, Subay, and for the Jarwanids (and Jabrids, who take over from the Jarwanids)
  • The Banu Hanifah are the main sedentary tribal group in al-Yamamah
  • The Banu Sulaym, with Zib as an offshoot; tribal area is predominantly to the east and southeast of Medina
  • The Al-A'idh are a bit of a mystery; associated with Qahtan but through alliance, not genealogy; likely their own thing
  • The Banu Wa'il, the tribal group actually associated with the Anazah; while there are claims that they were settling in Sutayr in the 14th century, tracking those claims through generations of oral tradition indicate that they're off by a couple of centuries
  • There is a broader association of Hijazi people of al-Zafir, Harb, and Banu Husayn
  • There is an association of southern Najdi people of al-Dawasir and Qahtan
  • The Banu Yam are considered distinctly "the nomads of Yemen", but didn't have much in the way of conflict with al-Dawasir and Qahtan
  • Otaibah also seem to be their own thing; usually in conflict with Mecca but otherwise not really in conflict or association with other tribes
  • Hutaym don't really play into things in this era
Those are the main tribal groupings in Najd in the 14th century. Note that the Banu Lam filled the vacuum that the Banu Amir left behind when they migrated to Iraq and Syria, as the Tayy themselves migrated to Syria.

So, what does that look like, roughly?
1733862421149.png

  1. Tayy
  2. Amiri (cuts through the vertical-line area; the area with lines are settled Hanifa
  3. Hutaym
  4. Wa'il (Anezi)
  5. Hijazi (can probably extend this through the Sharifate of Mecca as well
  6. Sulami
  7. Southern Najdi
  8. Otaibi
The horizontal-line area are Al-A'idh

It's a bit of a messy map, but that's the best I could work out in terms of reasonable dividing of various groups that considered themselves related in some meaningful way or were otherwise associated with each other.

Also just note how much that map will change by the end of the game:
1733862939066.png

That's a lotta migration!
 
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Hello everyone, and welcome to one more developer diary for map lovers! This is the second this week, after the review of Poland, Ruthenia, and the Baltic. Hurray!

Today we will be taking a look at the lands of Arabia! So let’s start, without further ado:

Countries:
View attachment 1184278
This week, we have two country maps: one without colored wastelands for clarity, and one with them under the spoiler button. You might also wonder why there isn’t a third one with the Societies of Pops for the region. Well, that’s because Project Caesar has several layers to portray the simulation of a believable world (if you remember, one of our design pillars). A couple of weeks we presented the Societies of Pops as a new type of country, but if you go back to Tinto Talks #4, the Government Overview, Johan mentioned the different types of governments, which now you know are for Settled Countries. One of them is Tribal, which we think makes for a good representation of the most complex and organized tribal societies, which have some estate-like features while keeping some other tribal features.

Therefore, the way we’ve decided that fits better to portray the simulation of the Arabian Peninsula is having a divide between those countries that are Monarchies (Mecca, Yemen, Oman, Ormus, and the Jarwanids), and those that are Tribal (the rest of them). An interesting feature of the latter is that their lands will be full of Tribesmen pops, making the Tribal estate the most important one to manage. As a final note, I’d like you to understand that this is our interpretation for the simulation of the game, although it might not be the only one (as it happened with the discussions about which European countries should be decentralized with several subjects, and which shouldn’t). The good news regarding this is that we will be open to feedback and making changes, as usual; but also, that this setup can easily be changed through the script of the game, thus making it completely moddable after the game is released; so there could potentially be mods making inner Arabia covered by Societies of Pops instead of Tribal Settled countries, if you don’t like/agree with our interpretation, or just prefer it to be different.


Dynasties:
View attachment 1184281
Among the dynasties of the region, you might find some old acquaintances, such as the Rasulids of Yemen or the Nabhani of Oman, while also having a bunch of new ones. And not a week without a bug, of course: the ‘al-Al’ prefix is an error, as those dynasties are using a locative, which is mixed with a second one, from the location; we will have that fixed, then.

Locations:
View attachment 1184282
The locations of the region, with more detailed maps under the spoiler button for three different sections (Northern and Central Arabia, Southern Arabia, and Eastern Arabia).

Provinces:
View attachment 1184286

Areas:
View attachment 1184287

Terrain:
View attachment 1184288
View attachment 1184289
View attachment 1184290
You might notice that most of Arabia is an arid, desertic plateau. The only exception to this is some fertile mountain valleys in Yemen, which was known as Eudaimon Arabia/Arabia Felix for a reason.

Natural Harbors:
View attachment 1184291

Cultures:
View attachment 1184293
The cultural division of the region is quite interesting, as it’s divided into several Arabic-speaking people. And for those that might wonder, yes, Socotra has its own culture, Soqotri. We still have to add some minorities here and there, though, so we will take the opportunity to do it during the map review.

Religions:
View attachment 1184294
The religious division of Arabia is also interesting, having Sunni, Shiite, and Ibady majorities spread across the peninsula. We have yet to address the minorities, which were not ready for the Tinto Maps, so we will show what that looks like on the map, and review as well. By the way, we might do some work in the coming weeks regarding Islam, and one of the things that I think we may tweak is the coloring, as Ibadi is too similar to Shiite; so I think that this might be a good opportunity to ask for your preferences about the coloring of the different branches of the Islamic faith.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1184295
Dates, livestock, horses, and some wheat and sand make for a healthy economy if you’re a Tribal country, I guess? Jokes aside, the desertic lands of Northern and Central Arabia have a more simple resource distribution, while Yemen and Oman, on the other hand, have quite rich resources, such as Pearls, Alum, Copper, Dyes, Silk, and Coffee (who doesn’t like a good mocha?).

Markets:
View attachment 1184296
There are five market centers present in this region: Mecca, Al-Hajar, Al-Hasa’, Hormoz, and ‘Adan. Coupled with the resources in the previous section, the control over ‘Adan and Hormoz will be strategically relevant, as it was historically.

Population:
View attachment 1184297
This week there aren’t (almost) issues with the population of the region, so we’re able to show it to you. The entire region has around 4.5M pops, which are unevenly distributed; Yemen has 1.6M, and Mecca 776K, making for more than half of the total, while a good chunk of it belongs to the Mamluks (that control all the area around Madina.

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, I have good news: we have finished the feedback review of Anatolia, and therefore I’ll post it on Monday! That way it will make for a week without a Tinto Talks more bearable. And on Friday, there will be maps for a new region, Iran and the Caucasus! See you!
There should be significant Judaism in Yemen just like there is in the Ethiopian Empire, with a small minority of Miaphysite Christians.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02757206.2021.1905242#d1e538

Also, I would suggest these two groups as minority cultures:
 
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Hormuz

Hormuz.jpg


Areas controlled by Hormuz, sources and explanations are in this post and this post from the Persia thread.

It's also unclear if the Jarwanids or Yas existed yet, to me it seems more likely that the Usfurids still controlled the regions. The areas around Masirah, Ja'alan, and modern UAE were ruled by local tribes and seemingly not part of any neighbouring state, though the ones in Ja'alan were said to be under the influence of Hormuz in one paper.

The location al-Qatif should probably be smaller and more confined to the coast, so that it doesn't cut off the inland powers from moving.

There should also be Pearls produced in Qatif and Julfar, and Bahrain had a significant amount of both horse breeding and pearls. Source
Screenshot_20250113-011852.png Screenshot_20250113-125258.png

The horse trade in general was also pretty significant for Hormuz, it's hard to say where exactly in Arabia the horses came from, but I remember reading about a significant gathering point near Qalhat where many horses were sold by the inland tribes to the merchants of Hormuz.
 
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Different interpretation of the Jarwanid/Usfurid situation, and probably a better way to represent it since their rule seems to overlap when you look at separate sources:
Hormuz.jpg

It's unclear if Bahrain would be under direct Hormuzi control or not, but I would represent it as direct control in-game because a rebellious Hormuzi prince set up his capital there in the 1340s (mentioned here).

I also saw mentions here of an Omani tribe (Beni Jabir?) around the coast who were at war with Hormuz several decades earlier, but it's unclear what the situation was in 1337 or what the political boundaries were.
@Ispil Do you happen to know anything about the tribes around here?
 
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