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Tinto Maps #17 - 6th of September 2024 - Arabia

Hello everyone, and welcome to one more developer diary for map lovers! This is the second this week, after the review of Poland, Ruthenia, and the Baltic. Hurray!

Today we will be taking a look at the lands of Arabia! So let’s start, without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.png

Colored Wastelands.png
This week, we have two country maps: one without colored wastelands for clarity, and one with them under the spoiler button. You might also wonder why there isn’t a third one with the Societies of Pops for the region. Well, that’s because Project Caesar has several layers to portray the simulation of a believable world (if you remember, one of our design pillars). A couple of weeks we presented the Societies of Pops as a new type of country, but if you go back to Tinto Talks #4, the Government Overview, Johan mentioned the different types of governments, which now you know are for Settled Countries. One of them is Tribal, which we think makes for a good representation of the most complex and organized tribal societies, which have some estate-like features while keeping some other tribal features.

Therefore, the way we’ve decided that fits better to portray the simulation of the Arabian Peninsula is having a divide between those countries that are Monarchies (Mecca, Yemen, Oman, Ormus, and the Jarwanids), and those that are Tribal (the rest of them). An interesting feature of the latter is that their lands will be full of Tribesmen pops, making the Tribal estate the most important one to manage. As a final note, I’d like you to understand that this is our interpretation for the simulation of the game, although it might not be the only one (as it happened with the discussions about which European countries should be decentralized with several subjects, and which shouldn’t). The good news regarding this is that we will be open to feedback and making changes, as usual; but also, that this setup can easily be changed through the script of the game, thus making it completely moddable after the game is released; so there could potentially be mods making inner Arabia covered by Societies of Pops instead of Tribal Settled countries, if you don’t like/agree with our interpretation, or just prefer it to be different.


Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Among the dynasties of the region, you might find some old acquaintances, such as the Rasulids of Yemen or the Nabhani of Oman, while also having a bunch of new ones. And not a week without a bug, of course: the ‘al-Al’ prefix is an error, as those dynasties are using a locative, which is mixed with a second one, from the location; we will have that fixed, then.

Locations:
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The locations of the region, with more detailed maps under the spoiler button for three different sections (Northern and Central Arabia, Southern Arabia, and Eastern Arabia).

Provinces:
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Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
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Topography.png

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You might notice that most of Arabia is an arid, desertic plateau. The only exception to this is some fertile mountain valleys in Yemen, which was known as Eudaimon Arabia/Arabia Felix for a reason.

Natural Harbors:
Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

The cultural division of the region is quite interesting, as it’s divided into several Arabic-speaking people. And for those that might wonder, yes, Socotra has its own culture, Soqotri. We still have to add some minorities here and there, though, so we will take the opportunity to do it during the map review.

Religions:
Religions.png

The religious division of Arabia is also interesting, having Sunni, Shiite, and Ibady majorities spread across the peninsula. We have yet to address the minorities, which were not ready for the Tinto Maps, so we will show what that looks like on the map, and review as well. By the way, we might do some work in the coming weeks regarding Islam, and one of the things that I think we may tweak is the coloring, as Ibadi is too similar to Shiite; so I think that this might be a good opportunity to ask for your preferences about the coloring of the different branches of the Islamic faith.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

Dates, livestock, horses, and some wheat and sand make for a healthy economy if you’re a Tribal country, I guess? Jokes aside, the desertic lands of Northern and Central Arabia have a more simple resource distribution, while Yemen and Oman, on the other hand, have quite rich resources, such as Pearls, Alum, Copper, Dyes, Silk, and Coffee (who doesn’t like a good mocha?).

Markets:
Markets.png

There are five market centers present in this region: Mecca, Al-Hajar, Al-Hasa’, Hormoz, and ‘Adan. Coupled with the resources in the previous section, the control over ‘Adan and Hormoz will be strategically relevant, as it was historically.

Population:
Population.png

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This week there aren’t (almost) issues with the population of the region, so we’re able to show it to you. The entire region has around 4.5M pops, which are unevenly distributed; Yemen has 1.6M, and Mecca 776K, making for more than half of the total, while a good chunk of it belongs to the Mamluks (that control all the area around Madina.

And that’s all for this week! For the next one, I have good news: we have finished the feedback review of Anatolia, and therefore I’ll post it on Monday! That way it will make for a week without a Tinto Talks more bearable. And on Friday, there will be maps for a new region, Iran and the Caucasus! See you!
 
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1. Goats, camels, etc.
2. The Sunni mechanics are not yet fully implemented, but we're currently leaning towards having an IO only if a proper Caliphate is restored (because the Cairo Caliphs were not really recognized by anyone else but the Mamluks).
There could also be several IOs for each calif and who recognizes them ( mamluks could force or negotiate for others to recognize the abbasside califs and later on ottomans could force or negotiate for others to recognize them as calif)
 
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@Pavía

I recommend the team take a look at the Hajj ports, because this map ignores important transit points like modern day Jeddah and Al Qatif/Damman, both of which have excellent harbors. I hope PC reflects the trade created by the pilgrimages.


Harbors.png
 
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View attachment 1185233
Just want to point out that being isolated by land (which is what the dev was talking about), and forming an colonial empire via the sea, are not mutually exclusive. Just ask the British.
well of course , i just mean Oman eventually link up with yemen in the 1500s . portugal even establish its presence first in that area between the 2 before they got kicked out by oman. so that area that link Oman and yemen is very crucial and strategic . Oman was isolated only in the period from the start of the game to the portuguese invasion a century later in the 1400s but by 1500s Oman linked with yemen before spreading to Iran and deep africa for the next 300 years
 
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I'm thinking about some areas, that you could "discover" and traverse over the period of time. So, what i mean, there should be connection between Yemen and Oman, but it shouldn't be colonizable, just hard to go through, so it would be logical, that armies could traverse those zones in mid-late games
 
Is lapis lazuli mining going to be represented by dyes?
 
please devs remember the stretch for 500 years
the game is about our history so who said oman gonna stay isolated ( it didnt in real history too since it became a colonial empire in 16th century and main contact with far east asia and deep africa)
and finally lets lets say we force an alliance as yemen with Oman , will we have to use ships to help them in a war ?
please consider connecting the 2 or at least add the mahri tribes and other tribes or leave it empty for colonisations along the road View attachment 1184847
View attachment 1184845
We'll take a look at it, but I want to point out that Oman became a maritime power, precisely, that's why I said semi-isolated: it expanded through the sea, not the land, with one of the reasons being its geographical position.
 
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Is there any building method to transform those gems into dyes? The primary (and almost exclusive) use of lazuli was the production of ultramarine dye
 
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We'll take a look at it, but I want to point out that Oman became a maritime power, precisely, that's why I said semi-isolated: it expanded through the sea, not the land, with one of the reasons being its geographical position.

But like. If they hop from their corner of the peninsula to Dufar location (which they had in the time period anyway, even if late), they'll still have a starting point to expand through the peninsula anyway. By your logic, you should connect Dufar to Oman and then isolate it from the rest of the southern peninsula.
 
We'll take a look at it, but I want to point out that Oman became a maritime power, precisely, that's why I said semi-isolated: it expanded through the sea, not the land, with one of the reasons being its geographical position.
thank you .
its just that Oman was indeed like that but when the portuguese came and took that area in the middle between them and yemen (mahra sultanate) , the Omanis decided to conquer it and thats why Oman stopped being in that corner and expanded all they way to Yemen's border . it was portugal who triggered it .
so based on historical event i humbly suggest that those areas either become colonizable or have some tribe like the mehri people who were able to spawn on the map many times like in pre islam era when they were vassals of sassanids alongside yemen
or during the islamic Ridah war
or in 1432 and finally in 19th century as a british protectorate
they are not that minor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehri_people

 
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thank you .
its just that Oman was indeed like that but when the portuguese came and took that area in the middle between them and yemen (mahra sultanate) , the Omanis decided to conquer it and thats why Oman stopped being in that corner and expanded all they way to Yemen's border . it was portugal who triggered it .
Nobody denies that Oman had some rule over Dhofar, but it didn't conquer it by land.
 
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Nobody denies that Oman had some rule over Dhofar, but it didn't conquer it by land.
but it did conquer it right ? its not like they had a city on the sea, they had land there and when you have land you eventually build roads .
all i am saying is make that area colonizable at least instead of taking it out of the game fully
 
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Will the emirate of Medina be added to the game?
The link below contains a list of the city's rulers.
View attachment 1185111
It's also worth considering adding the Hali Sultanate.
Ibn Battuta also spoke about the Sultan of Hali, saying: “Its Sultan is Amir bin Dhu’ayb from Banu Kinanah , and he is one of the distinguished literary men and poets. I accompanied him from Mecca to Jeddah , and he had performed the Hajj in the year thirty. When I arrived in his city, he accommodated me and honored me, and I stayed as his guest for a few days.”
Ibn Battuta was there in 1330 and the oasis was then ruled by a sheikh from the Kinana tribe.
View attachment 1185124
There is one more country that can be added, but there is little information about it.

The Sulaymanid dynasty probably survived until 1536 under the name Qutbi, ruling its emirate in the Asir Region.
The region of Abu ʽArish was governed by independent local sheikhs from the 13th century ; these sheikhs bore the title of sherif (noble of the Prophet's family) because they were (supposedly) descendants of the Prophet.
Abu Nami seized Jizan, and the emirate of the Qutbi family, the last family of the Sulaymani sharifs who ruled the Sulaymani district from 393 AH(1002-1003) - 943 AH(1536-1537), ended at his hands.
Some of the Sulaymanis settled in the Sulaymani district in the southwest of the Arabian Peninsula, which currently consists of Tihama, Hijaz , Asir and the Jazan region in the southwest of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia . Their settlement in that region began in the late fourth century AH, and they soon achieved a political and social status that enabled them to establish a hereditary rule in that region since the late fourth century AH. Their rule continued until the year 943 AH / 1536 AD, when Sharif Abu Numi Muhammad bin Barakat, Sharif of Mecca and Hijaz , eliminated them and annexed their country to Mecca .
Under the Ayyubids , the Sulaymanids, now also called Ghanimides , were mentioned as the Shutut, but the meaning of this name is unknown. Two sons of Kasim ibn Ghanim successively revolted against the Ayyubids and were defeated. Under the rassulida al-Ashraf Umar ibn Yusuf (died in 1296 ) mentions Hashim ibn Wahhas, descendant in the fourth generation of Ghanim ibn Yahya, as lord of Djayzan in his time; other Ghanimids were lords of Baysh and Baghita and others reigned over the Damad (upper and lower) in Sabya and Lulua (al-Shukayk). A branch of the Ghanimids arose in the 15th century , the Kutbids or Kutbites (from Kutb al-Din Abu Bakr ibn Muhammad) with their capital in Darb al-Nadja near Abu Arish, who were vassals of the Rasulids and later the Tahirids of Yemen .
The Sultanate of Hali or the Sultanate of Hali Bani Yaqoub is an Arab emirate that was established in (the west of the Arabian Peninsula ) and belongs to the Bani Haram of the Kinanah tribe . It was called the Sultanate of Hali bin Yaqoub and the rule of this family began in the fourth century AH. It had many wars with the rulers of Mecca and the rulers of Asir and had strong relations with the sultans of Yemen.
View attachment 1185239
Didn't the Mamluks try to destroy the Sharifate of Medina to the point where in 1337 it had basically no autonomy from the central government in Cairo?
 
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I'm surprised Jeddah isn't a natural port or the market capital of Hejaz, but maybe it only became prominent recently.
Yes! Jeddah was a major harbor for Indian Ocean trade network. It’s also an important port to access Makkah for pilgrimage (Hajj).

Hajj was an important source of income for the local ruler of Hejaz (or Makkah specifically) since they taxed gifts that pilgrims brought to the locals and taxed imported goods since it was common for pilgrims to bring goods to trade before/after the pilgrimage.

Unfortunately most of the sources i came across are in Arabic (i’m from Jeddah!) and i’m not sure if sharing them is acceptable.
 
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Yes! Jeddah was a major harbor for Indian Ocean trade network. It’s also an important port to access Makkah for pilgrimage (Hajj).

Hajj was an important source of income for the local ruler of Hejaz (or Makkah specifically) since they taxed gifts that pilgrims brought to the locals and taxed imported goods since it was common for pilgrims to bring goods to trade before/after the pilgrimage.

Unfortunately most of the sources i came across are in Arabic (i’m from Jeddah!) and i’m not sure if sharing them is acceptable.
You'll be fine. I've casually dropped sources in Turkish; I've seen plenty of Romanian and Hungarian sources in the Carpathia thread, and those are just the things that I immediately remember. The biggest issue is that you might need to translate the relevant snippets.
 
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Perhaps this reference can help, though this may apply to modern standard harbors :confused:

View attachment 1184358

There's also this, from the Library of Congress.


View attachment 1184359

Natural Harbor Capacity Proposal

Based on the references I am replying to, which people seemed to find helpful, I created an in-game proposal for the Persian Gulf NHC levels. These will follow the metrics I have used for other proposals on the same topic:

Red: 0-5%
Orange: 5-10%
Yellow: 10-15%
Green: 15-20%
Bright Green: 25%+

1726049105843.png

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1726049251678.jpeg
 
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