• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #49 - 5th February 2025

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we discuss details from our secret upcoming top secret game with the codename of Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about our disease system.

outbreak.png

This is the tooltip of an outbreak together with the spread...

We have 2 types of diseases, environmental, which does not spread through movement of trade nor movement of people, and those that spread. A disease does not just infect the pops in a location, but can also infect armies.

Each disease has many different attributes, all of which can be complex calculations, and this is a very flexible system entirely modeled through script.

  • A chance for it to spawn each month.
  • How often the disease processes, i.e. how fast it ticks.
  • How quickly it spreads to other pops.
  • How it spreads between location and pops.
  • How quickly it stagnates in a location or unit.
  • How many pops and/or soldiers die or become resistant, each tick.
  • How many pops and/or soldiers die each tick (of the above).
  • The mortality for characters.
  • How quickly resistances decay.
  • How much presence is needed before it spreads to adjacent locations.
  • If you want specific pop types affected…
  • And more…

When diseases are present in a location, the resistance to it builds up, making further outbreaks less effective. Pops, locations and sub units can have resistances. So if pops move around they can bring diseases they have with them that they themselves are immune to. Likewise, a unit carrying disease may spread it to any locations it travels through.

disease_in_location.png

There is a big Smallpox outbreak here in Saint-Marcellin, but the resistance is already nice.


So let's take a detailed look at the different diseases we have.


bubonic_plague.png
Bubonic Plague

With the default options, this will happen in 1346, start somewhere in Central Asia, and spread throughout the Old World.

It spreads relatively quickly and the mortality rate for pops is between 30% to 60%.

A great pestilence that sweeps through busy trade routes, sparing neither low nor high. Those infected suffer black swellings in the groin and armpits, terrible fever, and death. Some believe it is carried by the vermin that scurry in our streets and fields, spreading foul sickness from one poor soul to another.

great_pestilence.png
Great Pestilence


This will spawn in the New World whenever someone from the Old World colonizes a location, and spreads from there. It represents the collection of diseases that the European colonizers brought to the Americas. It can and will spawn at multiple places. It doesn’t impact pops from the Old World as they are immune to most of these.

This has a gigantic mortality effect, killing between 75% to 90% of all pops.

Terrible news reaches us from abroad. Misery and plague sweep the lands, and death runs with them, apparently brought by mysterious bearded foreigners. This plague is not something our elders have ever heard of, and no answers in our ancestors' memories could help us face the catastrophe if it reaches our settlements. Will our people perish, or will we somehow resist when this walking death reaches us?


malaria.png
Malaria


This is an environmental disease that is pretty much permanent in most Sub-Saharan Africa. Most of the local people have limited resistance to it, but any colonizers from abroad will die.

There will be regular outbreaks that can kill 10% to 20% of the pops that do not have resistance in a location.


The ancient bane of humankind, Malaria, is an infectious disease transmitted from person to person by the bite of an infected mosquito. This illness produces chills, headaches, sweating, and a very intense fever that repeats every three to four days.

typhus.png
Typhus


Outbreaks will appear in the areas of the old world where one of the three types of Typhus are endemic. It will also spawn in forest, woods or jungle locations, spreading from there.

It spreads relatively slowly, but the mortality is between 4% to 40%.

This deathly sickness creates on those stricken by it a great deal of fever, a big red rash that might extend over the entire body, and a confusion of the mind that might get worse, to the point of full-on delirium. Those poor souls that reach that point would develop gangrenous lesions and invariably die

influenza.png
Influenza


This will spawn during winter and spread in a relatively short period of time. It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully.

This kills off on average about 1 in 1000 people, so it is not the most lethal of diseases.

Known by the common folk as the Flu, it is a widely spread sickness with usually mild symptoms like a runny nose or a fever in healthy individuals, but that might be extremely dangerous for those that are too young or too old or already weakened by injury or another malady.

measles.png
Measles

This will spawn in most locations around the world, and it's far more likely to spread in towns or cities.It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully.

It is a bit more deadly than Influenza, but about 2 in 1000 people will die from it.

Measles, also known as morbili, rubeola, and red measles, is a plague that spreads extremely fast from person to person, causing fever, coughs, sneezes, and a great flat rash that eventually covers the entire body. It preys most eagerly on children, who are at great risk of death if they fall on its claws.

smallpox.png
Smallpox


This keeps spawning in most locations around the world, but not in arid or arctic climates. It will spread in a small region and is highly contagious. It's far more likely to spread in locations with a lot of trade.It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully.


The mortality is between 5% and 30%, so an outbreak where there is low resistance can be deadly.

Smallpox is a terrible disease that produces on the sad victim fever, vomits, and finally an enormous amount of liquid-filled blisters that cover their entire body. The outbreaks of this plague are very deathly and those that survive are commonly left blind for life.




There are ways to reduce the impact of disease in your country. First of all there are medical advances in most ages, and there are also buildings you can build.


First there is the Hospital that you can build in any town or city with at least 20 development. This is available at the start of the game for more advanced countries.


hospital.png


Then after the Scientific Revolution you can research the advance for Medical Schools and build them in your town and cities.

medical_school.png


Next week we will talk about how forming new countries will work…
 
  • 208Love
  • 125Like
  • 7
  • 6
  • 1
Reactions:
Would places like china have access to cowpox vaccine advance or something similar to represent them knowing and using it lot earlier than europe did.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we discuss details from our secret upcoming top secret game with the codename of Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about our disease system.

View attachment 1250950
This is the tooltip of an outbreak together with the spread...

We have 2 types of diseases, environmental, which does not spread through movement of trade nor movement of people, and those that spread. A disease does not just infect the pops in a location, but can also infect armies.

Each disease has many different attributes, all of which can be complex calculations, and this is a very flexible system entirely modeled through script.

  • A chance for it to spawn each month.
  • How often the disease processes, i.e. how fast it ticks.
  • How quickly it spreads to other pops.
  • How it spreads between location and pops.
  • How quickly it stagnates in a location or unit.
  • How many pops and/or soldiers die or become resistant, each tick.
  • How many pops and/or soldiers die each tick (of the above).
  • The mortality for characters.
  • How quickly resistances decay.
  • How much presence is needed before it spreads to adjacent locations.
  • If you want specific pop types affected…
  • And more…

When diseases are present in a location, the resistance to it builds up, making further outbreaks less effective. Pops, locations and sub units can have resistances. So if pops move around they can bring diseases they have with them that they themselves are immune to. Likewise, a unit carrying disease may spread it to any locations it travels through.

View attachment 1250951
There is a big Smallpox outbreak here in Saint-Marcellin, but the resistance is already nice.


So let's take a detailed look at the different diseases we have.


View attachment 1250961Bubonic Plague
With the default options, this will happen in 1346, start somewhere in Central Asia, and spread throughout the Old World.

It spreads relatively quickly and the mortality rate for pops is between 30% to 60%.

A great pestilence that sweeps through busy trade routes, sparing neither low nor high. Those infected suffer black swellings in the groin and armpits, terrible fever, and death. Some believe it is carried by the vermin that scurry in our streets and fields, spreading foul sickness from one poor soul to another.

View attachment 1250959Great Pestilence

This will spawn in the New World whenever someone from the Old World colonizes a location, and spreads from there. It represents the collection of diseases that the European colonizers brought to the Americas. It can and will spawn at multiple places. It doesn’t impact pops from the Old World as they are immune to most of these.

This has a gigantic mortality effect, killing between 75% to 90% of all pops.

Terrible news reaches us from abroad. Misery and plague sweep the lands, and death runs with them, apparently brought by mysterious bearded foreigners. This plague is not something our elders have ever heard of, and no answers in our ancestors' memories could help us face the catastrophe if it reaches our settlements. Will our people perish, or will we somehow resist when this walking death reaches us?


View attachment 1250958Malaria

This is an environmental disease that is pretty much permanent in most Sub-Saharan Africa. Most of the local people have limited resistance to it, but any colonizers from abroad will die.

There will be regular outbreaks that can kill 10% to 20% of the pops that do not have resistance in a location.


The ancient bane of humankind, Malaria, is an infectious disease transmitted from person to person by the bite of an infected mosquito. This illness produces chills, headaches, sweating, and a very intense fever that repeats every three to four days.

View attachment 1250957Typhus

Outbreaks will appear in the areas of the old world where one of the three types of Typhus are endemic. It will also spawn in forest, woods or jungle locations, spreading from there.

It spreads relatively slowly, but the mortality is between 4% to 40%.

This deathly sickness creates on those stricken by it a great deal of fever, a big red rash that might extend over the entire body, and a confusion of the mind that might get worse, to the point of full-on delirium. Those poor souls that reach that point would develop gangrenous lesions and invariably die

View attachment 1250956Influenza

This will spawn during winter and spread in a relatively short period of time. It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully.

This kills off on average about 1 in 1000 people, so it is not the most lethal of diseases.

Known by the common folk as the Flu, it is a widely spread sickness with usually mild symptoms like a runny nose or a fever in healthy individuals, but that might be extremely dangerous for those that are too young or too old or already weakened by injury or another malady.

View attachment 1250955Measles
This will spawn in most locations around the world, and it's far more likely to spread in towns or cities.It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully.

It is a bit more deadly than Influenza, but about 2 in 1000 people will die from it.

Measles, also known as morbili, rubeola, and red measles, is a plague that spreads extremely fast from person to person, causing fever, coughs, sneezes, and a great flat rash that eventually covers the entire body. It preys most eagerly on children, who are at great risk of death if they fall on its claws.

View attachment 1250954Smallpox

This keeps spawning in most locations around the world, but not in arid or arctic climates. It will spread in a small region and is highly contagious. It's far more likely to spread in locations with a lot of trade.It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully.


The mortality is between 5% and 30%, so an outbreak where there is low resistance can be deadly.

Smallpox is a terrible disease that produces on the sad victim fever, vomits, and finally an enormous amount of liquid-filled blisters that cover their entire body. The outbreaks of this plague are very deathly and those that survive are commonly left blind for life.




There are ways to reduce the impact of disease in your country. First of all there are medical advances in most ages, and there are also buildings you can build.


First there is the Hospital that you can build in any town or city with at least 20 development. This is available at the start of the game for more advanced countries.


View attachment 1250953

Then after the Scientific Revolution you can research the advance for Medical Schools and build them in your town and cities.

View attachment 1250952

Next week we will talk about how forming new countries will work…
Is this the full list of plagues or are there any left you are thinking about adding?
I also see no indication of Malaria being able to spread to the Americas as it historically happened. It also doesn't say if it can be found outside of sub-saharan africa, and it should also be found in many parts of south asia and oceania
What about the yellow fever, dengue or the cholera. Or leprosy and Elephantiasis. Are they abstracted and included into some of the others too?
 
  • 4Like
  • 3
Reactions:
I have a couple of questions

-Is the effect of the greater disease resistance limited to the city in which it is built or is it supra-regional?

- Is it possible to make a city totally disease resistant by building 10 hospitals? That would be bad because it would give the cities a very high health advantage. We are in the time where the urban graveyard effect ensures that cities without an influx from the countryside could not maintain their population because more people died than were born.

- Limiting the spread of malaria to afflictions is extremely ahistorical. Malaria was present in Europe throughout the entire period of the game, albeit limited to humid areas. For example, it was the rectification of the Upper Rhine between 1817 and 1876 by Johann Gottfried Tulla that wiped out the mosquitoes that had long infested the area with malaria.

Here is a map showing the areas where malaria was eliminated: Malaria was present in large parts of Europe before 1900.
1738773509091.png

 
  • 8
  • 4Like
Reactions:
That looks very nice, but how does colonisation works then? How have we colonise Brazil and Africa if every European will die and hospitals protect only from the plague?
Pretty sure 'plague resistance' refers to the generic mechanic of plagues, not specifically the bubonic plague.
 
  • 4
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
The knowledge of the time did not allow for the prevention of diseases, so making susceptibility to epidemics dependent on literacy would be a misunderstanding. Hospitals at that time could also change little. They simply did not know about the existence of microorganisms and the real causes of diseases. However, there was a relationship between population density and mortality. First, because in large population centers the disease spread more easily, and second, because where there were many people, there was a lack of food and some people were malnourished - which increased susceptibility to disease. This is why a significant part of the population of densely populated France died, while only a few people died in Central Europe. And if possible, you should derive the dependence of epidemics, and their mortality, on population density.
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Screenshot_20250205_174024_Chrome.jpg

IN 1337 Moscovy was just a Principality, the ruler was a Grand Prince but that's because they owned the title of Grand prince of Vladimir which is a separate tag in game now, I can understand the ruler of Veliky Novgorod using the title but Moscow itself was elevated to Grand Principality in 1389 after they integrated it more with Vladimir, so they should be a tier two tag at the start
 
  • 7Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Where is syphilis?
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Yes it can be gathered from locations that have the beeswax raw good
Then the final question is: can we get an updated raw goods map for the regions with these raw goods added? Like Russa for instance. Perhaps the community will manage to give some feedback on the locations.

Nevertheless, great thanks for reconsidering and adding it!!!
 
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Has there been any discussion regarding adding tuberculosis? This would be particularly relevant for later stages of the game in the 18th/early 19th century when it is estimated that TB was responsible for up to 1/4 of all deaths in Europe. Likewise, syphilis may be an interesting inclusion to model disease transfer from the new world to the old world. Keep up the great work!
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Just to know : will the amerindians be doomed by the great pestilence forever after the europeans arrive or will they find immunity at some point, allowing them to survive and maybe have a chance to repopulate a bit in the later eras ? For instance if a european country do not colonize our american native country, will we have a chance to build back our country ?
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
The brazilian colonies were not really in top-malaria areas. and what part of africa was colonised in large amounts before 19th century by europeans.
Agree, but some coastal trade outposts and Cape Colony existed. Do not expect to colonise more, though
Also does ‘plague resistance +10%’ refer to plague only or all diseases?
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: