Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries
Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Stellaris 53065 Bug Reports 34434 Console edition 1300 Suggestions 21117 Tech Support 3145 Multiplayer 391 User Mods 4768 Stellaris AAR (After Action Reports)
Previous dev diary Next dev diary
Show only dev responses

Stellaris Dev Diary #370 - 4.0 Changes Part 4

Hello everyone!

This week we’re going to look at the upcoming changes to Pops in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update.

Last week I said we might also look at the Planet UI, but I’m going to save that until next week since there’s quite a bit to cover here (especially if you’re into the technical details), and I’d rather not split the feedback.

Pop Groups and Workforce​

As mentioned in Dev Diary 366, the Pop and Jobs system introduced in Stellaris 2.2 ‘Le Guin’ has always had significant performance implications in the late game, and we’ve been working on incremental improvements ever since. In the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, Pops will be grouped into Pop Groups based on species, strata, ethics, and faction, and these Pop Groups will produce Workforce that is used to fill (or partially fill) Jobs. As part of this change, we’re changing the overall scale of Pops - most things that previously affected or manipulated 1 Pop would now affect or manipulate groups of 100. The new systems can manipulate any number of Pops within a Pop Group just as easily as manipulating one, and I’ll go into some of the benefits of the finer resolution below.

Our primary desire with these changes is to improve late-game performance, but while working on it we took the opportunity to streamline some aspects of planetary management and improve the planet UI.

Let’s take a closer look at some of the details.

Workforce​

In Stellaris, the core economic loop since 2.2 has been: Pops fill Jobs, and Jobs produce resources.

With the 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, we’re making a subtle but important change - Pops will now generate Workforce, which is used to fill Jobs, and planets themselves will produce resources.

At a basic level, this works almost the same way. By default, every Pop generates 1 Workforce, so Jobs are still filled at the same rate. However, this shift is crucial for backend performance improvements, reducing the number of calculations the game needs to make each month.

Example: Then vs. Now​

Before (3.14):
  • Take a planet with 100 Pops working Metallurgist Jobs, where 20 of them have a +10% Production Bonus from a Species Trait.
  • These 100 Pops produce 612 Alloys per month.
  • Every Pop is individually checked - 80 produce the standard amount, while 20 get a 10% Alloy production bonus from their species trait.

Now (4.0):
  • Instead of tracking individual Pops, we track Workforce filling Jobs.
  • The Jobs are now filled by 10,000 Workforce (since Pops are scaled up by 100).
  • 8,000 Workforce comes from regular Pops, while 2,000 Workforce comes from the bonus-earning Pops.
    • The species bonus is now “10% bonus Workforce when working Alloy jobs” - those Pops contribute an extra 200 Workforce, making the total 10,200 Workforce. Bonus Workforce is allowed to go over the required Workforce for a job, yielding extra production.
  • If 100 Workforce still produces 6 Alloys, the planet still produces 612 Alloys - same output, different system.

Why This Matters:​

The key benefit is efficiency. Instead of iterating through and calculating production for every individual Pop, the game now only checks once per planet. This makes the system more scalable and improves performance, while still allowing for species based bonuses and modifiers.

Most existing species traits that affect Job production will be converted into Workforce bonuses or planet-based modifiers. As always, the final balancing will be refined through the Open Beta.

There are a few quirks and subtleties about how this interacts with other modifiers - bonus Workforce as a modifier is more powerful than bonus Production due to the two of them stacking multiplicatively rather than additively.

Pop groups are currently split up by Species, Strata, Ethics, and Faction. If you end up in a case where a Pop group is not completely uniform (for example, if 20% of the Pop group are recent refugees and thus happier than the rest), then the differences get averaged across the Pop group.

If none of this feels like it makes sense - it’s okay. It’s mostly a behind-the-scenes change. Jobs require Workforce to fill them, and that’s generated by Pops. We have some ideas about ways to expand upon this in the future, such as replacing part of the Workforce with automation by using a building.

Pop Growth​

With more granular Pop units, we have more ability to support simultaneous growth of Pops on a planet. Each species present on a planet will grow normally, and with the smaller unit size, will grow every month.

This results in several benefits, including multi-species empires not getting their growth dominated by underrepresented species, and also lets us remove the floor on colony Pop growth. This does mean that newly settled colonies will be very reliant on migration to grow their population until they develop to the point where they can support their own Pop growth, and removes a long-running issue where spamming colonies regardless of habitability simply for the minimum flat Pop growth was optimal.

Xeno-Compatibility will pool all species on a multi-species planet together to calculate their growth rate, then split the growth proportionally across the various species.

Assembly works largely the way it did before, except that fractional Assembly will become “microPops” thanks to the finer resolution of Pops. Machine and Organic Assembly will no longer conflict with one another, as the Organic Pops will handle their own growth, while all mechanical assembly will be channeled towards the highest “score” mechanical Pop templates available.

Colonization and Civilians​

Since your new colonies will be extremely reliant on migration from their homeworld until they reach a critical mass of inhabitants where they can begin to support themselves, we’re adding a new population stratum called Civilians (or Residents, for species without full citizenship). These Civilians form the generally content base of your empire, and will trickle out to the colonies, looking for better opportunities. Unemployed Pops will still exist and downgrade through the strata, with unemployed Worker stratum Pops demoting to Civilians over time. This will have an impact on stability, as Civilians are largely content and non-disruptive.

This is mostly for you modders out there to abuse, but in the new system, “Unemployed Specialist” will technically be a Job - there’ll be one for each stratum. Every Job can have a demotion target assigned to it, and a time.

In our implementation, all of the Specialist stratum Jobs will demote to Unemployed Specialist; Unemployed Specialist will demote to Unemployed Worker, and Unemployed Worker will demote to Civilian as they give up on their dreams of productivity and veg out in front of the holoscreen.

There are actually going to be many more Strata than I listed there.

Our current list includes the following for regular empires:
  • Elites
  • Elites (Unemployed)
  • Specialists
  • Specialists (Unemployed)
  • Specialists (Slave)
  • Specialists (Slave, Unemployed)
    • For Indentured Servitude
  • Workers
  • Workers (Unemployed)
  • Workers (Slave)
  • Slaves (Unemployed)
  • Civilians
  • Residents
  • Criminals
  • Pre-Sapients
Gestalts would have:
  • Complex Drones
  • Menial Drones
  • Maintenance Drones (Civilian Equivalent)
    • Unemployed Complex and Menial drones demote directly to here, skipping the Unemployed state
  • Deviant Drones
  • Slaves (For Grid Amalgamation, Livestock, etc.)
  • Bio-Trophies
  • Bio-Trophies (Unemployed)
  • Pre-Sapients
There are likely to be more once we’re done, including the various Purge types.

Like many of the other changes, it’s all about removing iteration. Instead of going through the Pops to find the unemployed ones, we already know that any Pops in the Specialist (Unemployed) stratum are, in fact, unemployed. When a Specialist Job opens up, we have a smaller pool of candidates that are pre-identified, and we already have a clear priority of who has dibs on the Job.

In this model, Slaves would demote to the Slaves (Unemployed) Job/stratum and go no further, so they’ll never hit the content state of Residents and Civilians. Based on playtesting, we might end up adding a Slaves (Specialist, Unemployed)

Modders: Technically, there’s nothing stopping you from having a Job “demote” to a higher strata, like if you had a Worker stratum “Academy Cadet” that led to a Specialist stratum “Officer” Job. Just make sure you comment your script.

Your homeworld will start with a fairly large pool of Civilians to support your early expansion. We’re a bit worried about early conquest of homeworlds being too easy of a snowball with this increased starting Pop count, so are considering various ways of making it more challenging to take homeworlds in the early to mid game. One idea we have includes having Civilians create impromptu defensive militias to help defend their home, and possibly starting you off with a few Defensive Platforms. Another idea is for aggressively invaded Civilians to take “Resistance” Jobs that they must then “demote” out of over time. The number of Civilians converted to this new Job and how long it takes them to drop out of it would be modified depending on how their people are being treated by their new and old masters.

We welcome your ideas and suggestions.

Clerks are dead! Long live Civilians!​

We’re currently still experimenting with the effects Living Standards have on Civilians (and Pops in general) - it’s likely that more of the Trade generation from Living Standards will be shifted to the Civilian stratum, and production from Unemployed Pops in the old system may also move to the Civilians. This will give them some of the functions of Clerks in the old economic model. In Gestalt empires, they are likely going to be outright named Maintenance Drones rather than “Civilians”.

We’re also renaming the Ruler stratum to “Elites”, so “Ruler” isn’t double-dipping between your Empire’s ruler at the top economic stratum.

Next Week​

Next week we’ll be going through the new Planet UI, and how all of this changes things there.
 
Last edited:
  • 134Like
  • 88Love
  • 15
  • 4
  • 2
Reactions:
Sort by date Sort by reaction score
Finally pops give bith to pops, no more colony borns nor colony spam.

Now all that remains is the colony starting free pops that mysteriously simply appear, maybe from the shroud :cool:
 
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
Thinking about it some more, if the growth floor and ceiling are removed for natural biological pop growth, and assuming pop assembly remains unchanged in having a fixed number of assembler jobs per planet, this furthers the disparity between the two modes of growth. It will still be incentivized to spam colonies regardless of habitability in order to have more assembly buildings.

This could be remedied by having a way to scale up the number of assembly jobs per planet. Perhaps assembly buildings give a number of jobs per planet population, or they add assembler jobs to city districts. Or, there could be a new "assembly district" type added.

On the point that spiritualists always have less pop growth than a robot-building society: scaling the number of assembly jobs up would help compensate for the fact that organic and mechanical assembly are no longer exclusive, as a pop working in mechanical assembly is one that's not working in organic assembly. Perhaps banning robot construction could grant extra natural pop breeding in addition to compensate, especially for the time before organic assembly becomes available.
 
  • 6Like
Reactions:
ItThatAltersSanity said:
This name "Civilians" is not great, but I'm also questioning the label "Workers" too. I can't think of single-word labels for those two strata that'd be appropriate for all ideologies a bio empire can take. With two words though, I'm thinking:
- Elites
- Specialists
- Glorified/Prioritised Workers
- Unimportant/Interchangeable Workforce

With Clerks being axed, the remaining jobs in that 3rd strata are Miners, Technicians, Farmers and Soldiers: all jobs the state wants to pay special attention to. Depending on ideology, there'd be extra regulations, extra pay, extra management, etc etc. Nobody will really care if some pizza delivery guy goes out of business, society will implode if the farmers aren't working or if the energy (money) isn't flowing. Society won't care if basement dwellers stop writing fanfic or gaming content, they will care if the factories stop receiving raw material.
Click to expand...


Elites
Specialists/Aritsans
Tradesfolk/Specialized Labor
Workers
 
Pootino said:
I'm not saying that this kind of scenario shouldn't happen at all. I always wanted to do that sort of post-labour society and even tried to (unsuccessfully) mod it in, however it should be something that is exclusive to empires that are willing to support this kind of occupations, not poverty ridden, slum-filled super dystopias
Click to expand...
I will be surprised if the civilian population of every planet in every empire is as happy and productive as the civilian population of every planet on every other empire. Take your slums example - do you build enough housing to keep your civilian population happy, or do you build job districts while shoving the unproductive remainder into smaller and smaller boxes? If default civilians don't generate amenities then there's a cap there too. So on your slumlord dystopia your civilians are going to be overcrowded and under serviced, and yeah so will all your other pops but they'll (presumably) be getting happiness boosts from preferential living standards to compensate. I can't see the final product having all living standards keeping the civilians identical.

And if they get too rowdy, well, that's what prison planets are for.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
cryptkeeper said:
I think I understand what civilians mean for regular empires , except mega corps. As to me civilians are just people working in the private sector, vs government jobs.
Click to expand...
This is just my interpretation of it, but I see it as for Megacorps, the corporation is the government, but not all corporations are the government. There's still private services that need to be provided, the scientists and metallurgists need Space Doordash, there's still TPS reports that need to be filed, and there's probably an underbelly of smaller, local mum & pop businesses that fill niches that the Megacorp doesn't because they're too small to make any real profit off of.

It's been over a decade since I last played EVE, so I might be wrong, but it's like the Caldari. There's corporations that are the governing bodies, but there's also smaller ones like Caldari Steel or Deep Core Mining Inc. that do their own thing and don't hold any real power.
 
Another idea is for aggressively invaded Civilians to take “Resistance” Jobs that they must then “demote” out of over time. The number of Civilians converted to this new Job and how long it takes them to drop out of it would be modified depending on how their people are being treated by their new and old masters.
Click to expand...
This sounds great, and would make conquest a bit more dynamic and playing as liberators a bit nicer.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Arc2442 said:
This is just my interpretation of it, but I see it as for Megacorps, the corporation is the government, but not all corporations are the government. There's still private services that need to be provided, the scientists and metallurgists need Space Doordash, there's still TPS reports that need to be filed, and there's probably an underbelly of smaller, local mum & pop businesses that fill niches that the Megacorp doesn't because they're too small to make any real profit off of.

It's been over a decade since I last played EVE, so I might be wrong, but it's like the Caldari. There's corporations that are the governing bodies, but there's also smaller ones like Caldari Steel or Deep Core Mining Inc. that do their own thing and don't hold any real power.
Click to expand...
I suppose, but megacorps have a civic for that called Free Traders, where there are semi-independent corps working under the corp. Been a while since I played eve too, I usually played Amarr though.
 
Obeliskkai said:
When it comes to making homeworlds harder to take, I would favour the 'defensive militias' and 'resistance' jobs as those feel more natural and can probably be used in other aspects of the game.

Free orbital defense platforms sounds cool but I have a suspicion they would be a drag on the economy and I can imagine player strats being 'start game, delete defense platforms to get an economic boost, you won't need them, you're the player!'.
Click to expand...
Agree with this wholeheartedly. Makes sense from a roleplaying perspective, that the planet where your species supposedly evolved from over many, many millennia (unless you're a lost colony/broken shackles) would have much more development and defense than a colony they settled a few years ago
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Eladrin said:
Hello everyone!

This week we’re going to look at the upcoming changes to Pops in the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update.

Last week I said we might also look at the Planet UI, but I’m going to save that until next week since there’s quite a bit to cover here (especially if you’re into the technical details), and I’d rather not split the feedback.

Pop Groups and Workforce​

As mentioned in Dev Diary 366, the Pop and Jobs system introduced in Stellaris 2.2 ‘Le Guin’ has always had significant performance implications in the late game, and we’ve been working on incremental improvements ever since. In the Stellaris 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, Pops will be grouped into Pop Groups based on species, strata, ethics, and faction, and these Pop Groups will produce Workforce that is used to fill (or partially fill) Jobs. As part of this change, we’re changing the overall scale of Pops - most things that previously affected or manipulated 1 Pop would now affect or manipulate groups of 100. The new systems can manipulate any number of Pops within a Pop Group just as easily as manipulating one, and I’ll go into some of the benefits of the finer resolution below.

Our primary desire with these changes is to improve late-game performance, but while working on it we took the opportunity to streamline some aspects of planetary management and improve the planet UI.

Let’s take a closer look at some of the details.

Workforce​

In Stellaris, the core economic loop since 2.2 has been: Pops fill Jobs, and Jobs produce resources.

With the 4.0 ‘Phoenix’ update, we’re making a subtle but important change - Pops will now generate Workforce, which is used to fill Jobs, and planets themselves will produce resources.

At a basic level, this works almost the same way. By default, every Pop generates 1 Workforce, so Jobs are still filled at the same rate. However, this shift is crucial for backend performance improvements, reducing the number of calculations the game needs to make each month.

Example: Then vs. Now​

Before (3.14):
  • Take a planet with 100 Pops working Metallurgist Jobs, where 20 of them have a +10% Production Bonus from a Species Trait.
  • These 100 Pops produce 612 Alloys per month.
  • Every Pop is individually checked - 80 produce the standard amount, while 20 get a 10% Alloy production bonus from their species trait.

Now (4.0):
  • Instead of tracking individual Pops, we track Workforce filling Jobs.
  • The Jobs are now filled by 10,000 Workforce (since Pops are scaled up by 100).
  • 8,000 Workforce comes from regular Pops, while 2,000 Workforce comes from the bonus-earning Pops.
    • The species bonus is now “10% bonus Workforce when working Alloy jobs” - those Pops contribute an extra 200 Workforce, making the total 10,200 Workforce. Bonus Workforce is allowed to go over the required Workforce for a job, yielding extra production.
  • If 100 Workforce still produces 6 Alloys, the planet still produces 612 Alloys - same output, different system.

Why This Matters:​

The key benefit is efficiency. Instead of iterating through and calculating production for every individual Pop, the game now only checks once per planet. This makes the system more scalable and improves performance, while still allowing for species based bonuses and modifiers.

Most existing species traits that affect Job production will be converted into Workforce bonuses or planet-based modifiers. As always, the final balancing will be refined through the Open Beta.

There are a few quirks and subtleties about how this interacts with other modifiers - bonus Workforce as a modifier is more powerful than bonus Production due to the two of them stacking multiplicatively rather than additively.

Pop groups are currently split up by Species, Strata, Ethics, and Faction. If you end up in a case where a Pop group is not completely uniform (for example, if 20% of the Pop group are recent refugees and thus happier than the rest), then the differences get averaged across the Pop group.

If none of this feels like it makes sense - it’s okay. It’s mostly a behind-the-scenes change. Jobs require Workforce to fill them, and that’s generated by Pops. We have some ideas about ways to expand upon this in the future, such as replacing part of the Workforce with automation by using a building.

Pop Growth​

With more granular Pop units, we have more ability to support simultaneous growth of Pops on a planet. Each species present on a planet will grow normally, and with the smaller unit size, will grow every month.

This results in several benefits, including multi-species empires not getting their growth dominated by underrepresented species, and also lets us remove the floor on colony Pop growth. This does mean that newly settled colonies will be very reliant on migration to grow their population until they develop to the point where they can support their own Pop growth, and removes a long-running issue where spamming colonies regardless of habitability simply for the minimum flat Pop growth was optimal.

Xeno-Compatibility will pool all species on a multi-species planet together to calculate their growth rate, then split the growth proportionally across the various species.

Assembly works largely the way it did before, except that fractional Assembly will become “microPops” thanks to the finer resolution of Pops. Machine and Organic Assembly will no longer conflict with one another, as the Organic Pops will handle their own growth, while all mechanical assembly will be channeled towards the highest “score” mechanical Pop templates available.

Colonization and Civilians​

Since your new colonies will be extremely reliant on migration from their homeworld until they reach a critical mass of inhabitants where they can begin to support themselves, we’re adding a new population stratum called Civilians (or Residents, for species without full citizenship). These Civilians form the generally content base of your empire, and will trickle out to the colonies, looking for better opportunities. Unemployed Pops will still exist and downgrade through the strata, with unemployed Worker stratum Pops demoting to Civilians over time. This will have an impact on stability, as Civilians are largely content and non-disruptive.

This is mostly for you modders out there to abuse, but in the new system, “Unemployed Specialist” will technically be a Job - there’ll be one for each stratum. Every Job can have a demotion target assigned to it, and a time.

In our implementation, all of the Specialist stratum Jobs will demote to Unemployed Specialist; Unemployed Specialist will demote to Unemployed Worker, and Unemployed Worker will demote to Civilian as they give up on their dreams of productivity and veg out in front of the holoscreen.

There are actually going to be many more Strata than I listed there.

Our current list includes the following for regular empires:
  • Elites
  • Elites (Unemployed)
  • Specialists
  • Specialists (Unemployed)
  • Specialists (Slave)
  • Specialists (Slave, Unemployed)
    • For Indentured Servitude
  • Workers
  • Workers (Unemployed)
  • Workers (Slave)
  • Slaves (Unemployed)
  • Civilians
  • Residents
  • Criminals
  • Pre-Sapients
Gestalts would have:
  • Complex Drones
  • Menial Drones
  • Maintenance Drones (Civilian Equivalent)
    • Unemployed Complex and Menial drones demote directly to here, skipping the Unemployed state
  • Deviant Drones
  • Slaves (For Grid Amalgamation, Livestock, etc.)
  • Bio-Trophies
  • Bio-Trophies (Unemployed)
  • Pre-Sapients
There are likely to be more once we’re done, including the various Purge types.

Like many of the other changes, it’s all about removing iteration. Instead of going through the Pops to find the unemployed ones, we already know that any Pops in the Specialist (Unemployed) stratum are, in fact, unemployed. When a Specialist Job opens up, we have a smaller pool of candidates that are pre-identified, and we already have a clear priority of who has dibs on the Job.

In this model, Slaves would demote to the Slaves (Unemployed) Job/stratum and go no further, so they’ll never hit the content state of Residents and Civilians. Based on playtesting, we might end up adding a Slaves (Specialist, Unemployed)

Modders: Technically, there’s nothing stopping you from having a Job “demote” to a higher strata, like if you had a Worker stratum “Academy Cadet” that led to a Specialist stratum “Officer” Job. Just make sure you comment your script.

Your homeworld will start with a fairly large pool of Civilians to support your early expansion. We’re a bit worried about early conquest of homeworlds being too easy of a snowball with this increased starting Pop count, so are considering various ways of making it more challenging to take homeworlds in the early to mid game. One idea we have includes having Civilians create impromptu defensive militias to help defend their home, and possibly starting you off with a few Defensive Platforms. Another idea is for aggressively invaded Civilians to take “Resistance” Jobs that they must then “demote” out of over time. The number of Civilians converted to this new Job and how long it takes them to drop out of it would be modified depending on how their people are being treated by their new and old masters.

We welcome your ideas and suggestions.

Clerks are dead! Long live Civilians!​

We’re currently still experimenting with the effects Living Standards have on Civilians (and Pops in general) - it’s likely that more of the Trade generation from Living Standards will be shifted to the Civilian stratum, and production from Unemployed Pops in the old system may also move to the Civilians. This will give them some of the functions of Clerks in the old economic model. In Gestalt empires, they are likely going to be outright named Maintenance Drones rather than “Civilians”.

We’re also renaming the Ruler stratum to “Elites”, so “Ruler” isn’t double-dipping between your Empire’s ruler at the top economic stratum.

Next Week​

Next week we’ll be going through the new Planet UI, and how all of this changes things there.
Click to expand...

The idea of changing "Ruler" to "Elite" seems fine, but the rest don't seem well-thought ideas at all:

- Workforce...from Cambridge Dictionary..."the group of people who work in a company, industry, country, etc..."...what sense makes that species who are better at doing one job produce more workforce? If we want to use a more meaningful and less confusing term, Labor would be more appropriate...Labor is generally human labor, but could be replaced by machines. Moreover, being an abstract concept that represent productivity ...one could have unemployed people while the employed people produce more labor!
However, if a better and less confusing name is found for this resource (i.e., Labor, Work, etc...), I'd see no problem with it...

- Civilian...this instead is an awful idea...you guys simply wanted to "drop" the Clerks? ...and the solution was to create an utterly unnecessary and unrealistic stratum of brainwashed lobotomized people who are happy even if they are jobless and without income?
This one doesn't seem a well-thought idea at all...and makes a great pair with "Resident"...what is supposed to be a "Resident"??!

Civilian...from Cambridge Dictionary..."a person who is not a member of the police or the armed forces" or "an ordinary person who is not famous or is not a member of a particular group"..from Cambridge Dictionary...Resident..."a person who lives or has their home in a place"!

Even just opening the dictionary would have told you guys how awful this new idea was!!

Moreover, frankly, I can't help wondering if was just a badly conceived idea or was an actual attempt to brainwash the Stellaris community with certain hypocritical politics from certain elites...and that impression, given also the forbiddance to discuss on "politics" in the Forum, under the pretense that there is no politics being embedded into Paradox's much beloved games, well...makes this idea even more bothersome!

That said, I have to recognize that you have managed to "correct the direction" with the changes that I didn't have liked on the Research system and eventually moved toward a system that allowed more freedom to us instead of pushing a specific vision of how to play the game...so...well...I really hope there will be some "correction of the path" also in this case!
 
  • 8
  • 1
Reactions:
Miguelinileugim said:
I suggest to rename "civilians" to "artisans" as to better represent your new vision.
Click to expand...

Stratum were supposed to be "social classes". Elite/Rulers is the upper class, Specialists are the middle class, Workers are the lower class and the Criminals are the outcasts. Adding "Civilians", "Residents" or even "Artisans" don't make any sense...those are just another job within the "Worker" or of "Specialist" strata...
 
  • 1
Reactions:
ItThatAltersSanity said:
"Would not abide" is far away from "can actually competently control all that workforce". Stellaris empires (pre-4.0) start with slums that need clearing to spawn a new pop. An earlygame empire is already inefficient, possibly due to corrupt officials or general incompetence. Now, the government will be doing its best to insist there aren't any useless parts of the workforce, but that won't change the de facto reality on the ground. It's for the player to come in and take such an incompetent starting empire to be a mean, lean society as the in-game decades pass.



In Vic3, there was valid reason to convert all your peasants to workers: you had higher tiered agrarian buildings where farmers own the land (subject to laws) and leveraged automation to supply the market better. Meantime urban buildings naturally created service sector jobs which were another career upgrade for peasants.

There's room for your vision on separating hard vs service economy. There still are dedicated jobs for trade/amenities at higher tiers than "below Worker". The Clerk (Worker-tier service job) has been axed, but nothing has been said of the Merchant and the Entertainer (Specialist-tier jobs). I think a lategame empire with some Trade emphasis would have no "Civilians" but many Merchants. I'm thinking business owners who don't need to employ any clerks or lawyers to do paperwork (small or big) as AI does all that for them. Super-enabled capitalists who are their own lawyers because the gene engineering/cyborg implanations/psychic hivemind augmentations are just that good. Also, super-enabled priests of lategame Spiritualist empires, multitasking so well they solve all the petty personal disputes of society.






This name "Civilians" is not great, but I'm also questioning the label "Workers" too. I can't think of single-word labels for those two strata that'd be appropriate for all ideologies a bio empire can take. With two words though, I'm thinking:
- Elites
- Specialists
- Glorified/Prioritised Workers
- Unimportant/Interchangeable Workforce

With Clerks being axed, the remaining jobs in that 3rd strata are Miners, Technicians, Farmers and Soldiers: all jobs the state wants to pay special attention to. Depending on ideology, there'd be extra regulations, extra pay, extra management, etc etc. Nobody will really care if some pizza delivery guy goes out of business, society will implode if the farmers aren't working or if the energy (money) isn't flowing. Society won't care if basement dwellers stop writing fanfic or gaming content, they will care if the factories stop receiving raw material.
Click to expand...

Actually "Worker" is a very appropriate term if we consider that those represent the "Upper Class", "Middle Class" and "Lower Class".

The "glorified" workers (who exist just to kiss the bottom of the Elite) already fall into the Specialist strata...
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Having "Resistance" factions for the pops involved in the rebellions would be cool, that way they could have specific demands and policies that they'd want, rather than it just being a "press button to quash resistance" situation
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
hogndog said:
Having "Resistance" factions for the pops involved in the rebellions would be cool, that way they could have specific demands and policies that they'd want, rather than it just being a "press button to quash resistance" situation
Click to expand...

Actually when you reach the "Resistance" stage, you are well past sending your grievances to the ruler...
 
Eladrin said:
Xeno-Compatibility will pool all species on a multi-species planet together to calculate their growth rate, then split the growth proportionally across the various species.
Click to expand...
Does that mean it's no longer a computation sink and is an actual viable choice for boosting pop growth?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Modders: Technically, there’s nothing stopping you from having a Job “demote” to a higher strata, like if you had a Worker stratum “Academy Cadet” that led to a Specialist stratum “Officer” Job. Just make sure you comment your script.
Click to expand...
Look, there could be a species somewhere out there that believes that those that produce are the highest order of worker, and overseers are little more then a necessary evil. I for one will not judge.
 
Eladrin said:
Pop Growth
With more granular Pop units, we have more ability to support simultaneous growth of Pops on a planet. Each species present on a planet will grow normally, and with the smaller unit size, will grow every month.

This results in several benefits, including multi-species empires not getting their growth dominated by underrepresented species, and also lets us remove the floor on colony Pop growth. This does mean that newly settled colonies will be very reliant on migration to grow their population until they develop to the point where they can support their own Pop growth, and removes a long-running issue where spamming colonies regardless of habitability simply for the minimum flat Pop growth was optimal.

Xeno-Compatibility will pool all species on a multi-species planet together to calculate their growth rate, then split the growth proportionally across the various species.

Assembly works largely the way it did before, except that fractional Assembly will become “microPops” thanks to the finer resolution of Pops. Machine and Organic Assembly will no longer conflict with one another, as the Organic Pops will handle their own growth, while all mechanical assembly will be channeled towards the highest “score” mechanical Pop templates available.
Click to expand...
I see a lot of people assuming that pop growth works specifically the xenocompatible way. E.g. 10 growth for 1 species is 10, but 10 growth for 10 species is 1 each.

But aren't you saying that each pop has its own independent speed unless you have xenocompatibility which is when it's shared?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back