Crusader Kings III: Chapter IV

[AHumpierRogue]

A few questions:

Will the mongols be balanced on release with China in mind, or will they be rebalanced when the lands to their east are added?

While I understand character limitations, will there be a representation of what I understand to be the rather extensive concubinage in the Chinese courts beyond giving them the concubine marriage type? Perhaps, since some seemingly had thousands, there could be a system in which the concubines are not characters but a decision and the heir produced is the only character generated?

Is there anything particular you’d like to share about Korea? The advertising here seems focused on China, Japan, and Indonesia. Unified Silla should exist still by the earliest start date and be rather soon to break apart.

Will the hegemony be available to rulers who own a certain number of empires or meet some other conditions, or only to the Chinese?

That would be very odd. Ladies of the inner court absolutely have been relevant throughout history and show up all the time. They can probably just limit it to the top consorts and upper ranking concubines though, for the sake of simplicity(though there can maybe be events referencing "lower" concubines who can be elevated if they catch your fancy).

 

[Caspian Mortis]

I would like to ask roughly how many provinces (holdings) are going to be added later this year in the Asia expansion.

That way I could begin making preparations to renumber all the provinces in my mod and recolor all the provinces I've added.

 

[Snowman1912]

After looking at the price of chapter 4 on steam, I personally think it is way too high. At the price of 43 dollars it almost costs the exact same as Ck3 without any dlc at 50 dollars. Is there a reason for this high price?

 

[BoomKidneyShot]

No teasing us with the map? Mean.

 

[Pigposting]

Could other realms "copy" the unique government types of japan, china, korea etc? Such as in CK2 where a han/khitan culture character can form their own china with chinese imperial government? Would we able to do this in south east asia or elsewhere by sinicizing?

 

[tribnia]

Obvious "Hegemony" Titles would be Roman Empire, Caliphate, and unified India. I hope they don't just do Hegemonies everywhere though, maybe they'll have to but I hope they can hold off.

Imagine a Western Roman imperator revolts against the Constantinople hegemon for an independence war.

 

[ray243]

After looking at the price of chapter 4 on steam, I personally think it is way too high. At the price of 43 dollars it almost costs the exact same as Ck3 without any dlc at 50 dollars. Is there a reason for this high price?

Considering it is a DLC that basically adds a entire 2nd half of the map to the game with multiple governments and cultures, I feel like that kinda make sense.

 

[vandevere]

When will the Chapter go on sale, and how much will it cost?

Also, on Coronations, I hope the hoops you will have to jump through won't be quite as noxious as they were in CK2. Demanding noxious amounts of money is one thing, but also well within the parameters of what priests demanded in the Real Middle Ages, as well as demanding special privileges for the Church.

My main objections to the Papal Coronations was where the Popes would demand you either go to war on their behalf, draining your coffers to hell and beyond, or when they would demand you embrace celibacy, which, if your dynasty is just starting out, would be an instant Game Over.

 

[Supermouser]

Probably speaking for the minority but I have to say, personally I'm not a fan of expanding to Asia while so many of the regions in the current map lack proper depth. This really feels like Paradox has embraced the qantity over quality approach for CK3 expansions, which really bums me out. India should never have been shipped with this game if Paradox never intended to give it literally any attention at all since release. Lack of Catholic Church detail is well known. Crusades are still not what they should be. And there's a reason everybody wants Administrative Government for the Caliphate as opposed to the joke that we're calling "Clan" government.

This game should be learning lessions from the Stellaris team on how to make sure introduced mechanics get touchups over time and reworked backwards into previously introduced content. Instead this reminds me of the HoI IV development philosophy.

That being said, I hope I'm wrong of course. The free update indeed gives me a bit of a custodians team vibe with its rework to intoduce things like plague and legitimacy modifiers to some court positions. The Coronations event pack we know nothing about so I'm projecting my hopes onto what that could potentially entail. We'll see.

 

[DeanTheDull]

So, it was China after all. I’ll admit I was skeptical that they’d expand the map as much as they have, but at the same time I am happy for those who may be ecstatic. May it come in a fashion you enjoy.





Some thoughts / Considerations / Concern





My concern first, since this is why I was skeptical about a map expansion.



What sort of performance-hit mitigating measures are being mooted for mitigating the expansion of AI actors across the map?



A common concern in the leadup was that the game already slows down considerably on some computer setups with the map-as is. There is regular speculation that Road to Power unlanded play made this worse, particularly with noble families that stop being able to hold offices but linger around.



One option would be to take away things comparable to what is added.



Perhaps remove barons as active-AI, to reduce processor load?



Another is to limit conditions at which currently-constant checks are used.



Perhaps utilize the Conqueror AI code, which neutralizes factions and thus doesn’t need to calculate them, so that the AI faction-considerations are more limited in general?





Or perhaps a game-initiation option to simply cut off general regions of the map, so that players can scope the map to their system preference?



/



Steppe mode.



We’ve already heard it. If nomads can apply to Africa-Sahel, that will be interesting and good, even if not as in-depth as the Steppe. I’ll be interested in what comes next.



/



Coronations



Sounds like a new Grand Activity. Unsurprising, but still welcome. Though it sounds like it will be a source of modifiers, that was basically what CK2 coronation (or lack of coronation) modifiers were as well. Here is to those whose verisimilitude will be met.



My interest on coronations will be specifically on religious system integration. Head of faith requirements / demands would be welcome. I also hope to see variations for the temporal head of faith, and the no-head-of-faith systems.



/



China / Asia





Obviously the big one. Thoughts…



I noted that Japan, Korea, and south Asia were described as having different governments, but not necessarily new governments. We’ll see how that works.



The Mandate of Heaven system sounds like a Struggle-esque government, which I think will be welcome if it works out well. Dynamically shifting-over-time governance mechanics can be interesting… but then, ‘decline in power’ systems are a game design premise that sounds great on paper but players often hate. (See the Rhyse and Fall of Civilization expansions.) Despite protests to the contrary, the general industry history that I’m aware of generally abhors forced setbacks.



The Hegemon system could be interesting, but I could see it doubling-down on the least-fun parts of Empire-tier play. A ‘new title’ that’s presumably above Emperor could just lead to the same sort of map-paining that already makes Emperor-tier play a chore, since you’re even more OP compared to conquest targets and there’s even more map to slog through on a world conquest.



On the other hand, it sounds like the intent is to give the player reasons to have outside realms to hegemon-over, as opposed to conquer. Quasi-vassals might help… or might not. I think the Hegemon system will actively need a reason to NOT conquer everything to avoid the Emperor-of-the-World pitfalls.



I am concerned that the map expansion will introduce great big areas that will be forever underdeveloped. At the same time, it does seem like the dev attempt is to approach a ‘choose your style of government’ approach to regional customization, so it does not mean that feudal Japan and feudal Europe will play the same.



I pity the flavor-text writers, though.



/



2026 Implications



I think some of the more interest implications of this announcement are what they imply for 2026, when developer attention shifts back from the east to the west.



-If the Mandate of Heaven is a struggle-esque style of government that dynamically changes over time, that seems like a good skeleton to build upon for a broader religion rework, where an organized religion’s relationship with the state changes over time.



Varying rule sets depending on if the Papacy (or equivalent) or the Crown dominates would allow things like Investiture.



-If the Hegemon is a ‘more about your relationships abroad than your own holdings’ system, that seems like a good scaffolding for merchant republics and trade coalitions.



Rather than a literal trade system, a quasi-Hegemony competition where merchant states compete for market-hegemony relationships over non-merchant powers.



-If Hegemon establishes new relationships, this may also allow new ways to model relationships between states. The classic King of England is a vassal of the King of France will… probably never cease, but perhaps it could be modeled as some variation of ‘you can create equal titles as a vassal under certain conditions, but the new monarch is subject to a Hegemon-like relationship with the former sovereign.’ (Tributary or otherwise.)



-HRE implications. Both Hegemon and Mandate of Heaven mechanics, even as loosely described as they were here, sound like building blocks to an HRE rework. HRE notably varied over time (dynamic rule sets), and didn’t have the same sorts of control over constituent members as a normal feudal system. A ‘China test’ of various systems could help make an HRE rework land.





Overall, I am interested. I don’t think this year’s gameplan will fundamentally change the opinion of anyone who thinks the game is too easy, but it does certainly look set to reduce the scope of ‘things CK2 that CK3 doesn’t,’ while expanding the scope of ‘things CK3 has that CK2 never tried.’



Which is about all I could hope for.

 

[vyshan]

Question: Will the new Mandala government that south east asia gets will that be for India as well?

 

[FleetingRain]

Nevermind Cathay, how far into SEA are we going? Timor? Moluccas? Papua?

And how will the game - and most PCs - even deal with that big a map?

 

[Cooleatack]

Incredible! Will the map expansion also include a larger portion of Africa to play in? I imagine it is not the focus, but since Indonesia will be added, the Kongolese and East-African states are within the same latitude. Could you please share the map projection/ an outline of the map that will be used?

 

[IIXBatmanXII]

That would be very odd. Ladies of the inner court absolutely have been relevant throughout history and show up all the time. They can probably just limit it to the top consorts and upper ranking concubines though, for the sake of simplicity(though there can maybe be events referencing "lower" concubines who can be elevated if they catch your fancy).

That might be fine. I just don’t feel like it makes sense to compare concubinage among the Vikings and among the Chinese emperors and conclude that it’s all the same when brought into the game. I’d like them to work on some unique representation, at the least.

 

[sSpellweaver]

So exciting! I'm wondering- will there be harem mechanics? I want to pull a Wu Zetian and rise from Concubine to Emperor!

 

[melkor88]

China shouldn't be added. It should be its own game. It would be an instant buy.

We are just going to see huge slow down in performance now, for no gain. The same happened for me when India was added in CK2, my laptop struggled from then on.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

When will the Chapter go on sale, and how much will it cost?

What? You haven't bought it yet?

 

[Cooleatack]

I fully agree that China and other parts of Asia should be added, but not now. In my opinion the current map should have its flavour and mechanics fleshed out before any map expansions take place.

I would see it as a stepping stone towards that. The Hegemon status could give further options for a Pope or (Holy) Roman Emperor; merchants and their republics will have somewhere distinct to trade to and from; steppe nomads will have an Eastern barrier that prompts them westward; etc…

 

[EricTheGreat12]

One issue with the coronation mechanic in CK2, was that it gave a meagre +5 opinion bonus that really didn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things. You could do without the gameplay and still do the rest of the game, which is rather surprising considering how important such an event would have been within historical medieval Europe.

I am worried as this will be an event pack, they'll make the coronation some sort of "grand event" (like with the Tours and Tournaments) but the benefits will still be rather minimal. Hopefully it'll be more worthwhile and indepth this time around compared to CK2

 

[Magil]

Adding China allows them to flesh out the silk road which is a perfect place for mercantile states to enter the picture. Instead of just having China being some nebulous off-map thing or very conspicuously absent.