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Stellaris Dev Diary #377 - MEAT SHIPS MEAT SHIPS MEAT SHIPS

Hello everybody! Welcome to our first BioGenesis development diary!

Today we will talk to about ships. That are made of meat!



Several weeks ago, Eladrin mentioned that the ship designer changes originally planned for 4.0 "Phoenix" would not be included in the Open Beta, as they’re now needed for our upcoming Q2 DLC release. We’ve since seen a fair amount of speculation as to what we might have been cooking that’d require such changes… So please allow me to introduce our Biological Ships!

MEAT SHIPS! MEAT SHIPS! MEAT SHIPS!

In BioGenesis, we are adding two distinct Biological shipsets, with unique ship classes and technology.

Our goals in adding Biological Ships to Stellaris were to ensure that they are not only different in appearance from mechanical ships (and space fauna), but also in gameplay. Thus, the key mechanical differences are:

  • When using Biological Ships, Corvettes, Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers and Battleships are replaced with Maulers, Weavers, Harbingers, and Stingers, each of which have three growth stages.
  • Biological Ships, including Starbases, Megastructures and Stations, have their primary construction resource converted from Alloys (or Minerals) into Food and their Energy upkeep likewise replaced with Food upkeep.
  • Overwhelmingly, Biological Ship technologies fall in Society Research (Biology) instead of the familiar Engineering Research (Voidcraft).

And in classic Stellaris fashion, we’ve kept the flavor and narrative around Biological Ships intentionally vague, just enough to let you roleplay them however you like. Maybe they’re an extension of your Devouring Swarm, just another drone in space. Or maybe they’re advanced bio-machines, the pinnacle of your scientific achievement.

In order to use Biological Ships, you’ll need to select one of the shipsets during empire creation.

New shipset selector

Different types of ships prompted our UX designer to give the Shipset selector a fresh coat of paint!

Growth Cycles​


Similar to Space Fauna from Grand Archive, Biological Ships have growth stages, but unlike Space Fauna, they do not naturally progress through these by aging. Instead, these ships have a unique component slot for supplementary organs that can be researched. Generally speaking, the Juvenile and Mature growth stages will likely be occupied by Growth Organs that allow the ships to progress to the next stage.

Growth Glands!


The accumulated growth progress for ships is shown in both the ship’s tooltip and the ship details window.


Growth Progress Tooltip


Growth Progress Details

When Biological Ships are designed (either automatically or using the ship designer), all researched Growth Stages are configured as part of a single ship design. Once a Biological Ship has acquired sufficient Growth Progress, it will automatically change to using the next Growth Stage in its design. Alternatively, Biological Ships can be constructed at a shipyard at a later Growth Stage.

Mauler Growth Stages

The three growth stages of the Spinovore Weaver

MEAT SHIPS! MEAT SHIPS! MEAT SHIPS!

Although all Growth Stages of Biological Ships use the same Fleet Command Limit for their ship class, later Growth Stages use more naval capacity, with the Mature stage using 1.5× and the Elder stage using 2× the Naval Capacity of the Juvenile stage.


SHIPS MADE OF MEAT​

Maulers primarily focus on short-range combat with shield penetration and high damage to armor and shields. Equipped with melee-range mandible weapons and either short-range S-slot or PD-slot weapons, these ships will form the bulk of your navy in the early game. Their unique mandible weapons have similar damage scaling against starbases and larger ships as torpedoes.

Mauler Designs


Mauler Designs

The unique Organ components that Maulers have access to are the Corrosive Fluids and Metabolic Recycler (and their upgraded versions)

Corrosive Fluids


Metabolic Recycler


Weavers are support ships, making use of unique weapons to apply powerful buffs to their allies or debuffs to their enemies.

Weaver Designs


Weavers have unique access to an array of six support components, each with six tiers that belong in the PD-slot.

Weaver Support Weapons


Weaver Suppressor Weapons

The unique Organ components that Weavers have access to are Symbiotic Amplifiers and Developmental Pheromones


Symbiotic Amplifiers



Developmental Pheromones


Harbingers are carriers capable of deploying large amounts of strike craft and supporting them with point defense or long range missiles.

Harbinger Designs


Harbinger Designs


Strike craft for empires using Biological Ships are deployed in greater numbers per fighter wing, but have reduced hull points and armour instead of shields.

Biological Strike Craft

The unique Organ components that Harbingers have access to are Chitin Growth Regulators and the Incubation Matrix

Chitin Growth Regulators



Incubation Matrix


Stingers are powerful late-game warships, equipped with multiple XL weapons or capable of unleashing heavy broadside barrages.

Stinger Designs



Stinger Designs


The unique Organ components that Stingers have access to are Exhaust Spiracles and Rangefinder Clusters.

Exhaust Spiracles



Rangefinder Cluster


As each of the different Growth Stages of each of the classes of Biological Ships can be built at a shipyard, we’ve taken the opportunity to implement collapsible headers when selecting which ships to build.

Shipyard Headers

This works for mechanical ships and space fauna too!



Since Biological Ships have their own weapons, armour, shield and core components, we’ve gone through and ensured that the technologies use the appropriate icons depending on if you are using a Biological shipset or not.

Technology Swaps


Modding Notes​

As part of the work required to implement Biological Ships there have been a lot of changes to how ship components are scripted. Here’s some highlights:
  • class_restriction, size_restriction and slot_restriction are deprecated in favour of using the possible and potential trigger blocks instead.
  • Core Components now have an upgrade_path parameter, components that have the same upgrade path are shown on the same row.
  • Ship components now support the show_tech_unlock_if = { } field, like buildings.
  • New targeting parameters:
    • use_ship_main_target: if yes, overrides target_type and target_focus when ship's main target is within range, default no
    • target_type (target_enemies (default) / target_allies / target_controlled / target_own)
    • target_focus (single (default) / spread)
    • target_type: only valid if component_set has affects_target_type = yes
    • target_focus: only valid if component_set has affects_target_focus = yes
  • New parameters for weapons:
    • on_hit: apply effects to target on hit. Scope = ship (target), from = ship (shooter)
    • hide_damage_values_from_tooltip = yes/no # If yes, it will hide Damage and Average Damage from weapon component tooltip (default = no)

Next Week​

Next week we’ll be looking at Ascension, Traditions, and Advanced Governments. See you then!

PRIME CUTS FROM ART!​


They're made out of meat.


  Meat?



Meat. They're made out of meat.



Meat?


There's no doubt about it. We picked several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, probed them all the way through. They're completely meat.


That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars.


They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines.


So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact.


They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines.


That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat.


I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in the sector and they're made out of meat.


Maybe they're like the Orfolei. You know, a carbon-based intelligence that goes through a meat stage.


Nope. They're born meat and they die meat. We studied them for several of their life spans, which didn't take too long. Do you have any idea the life span of meat?
 
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This all looks amazing, however i am a little bit worried about the balance of these ships. It looks like they have a lot more firepower just from the sheer amount of slots on each ship, are normal ship types getting some tweaks as well or will the MEAT ships just be stronger in general?
You only get the slots from one growth stage at a time. You don't get all three columns, just whichever column the ships current growth stage is at. So a fully grown harbinger has 4 hangers, not nine. Not sure if that's what you were seeing but I know I and others were confused by this.

8 P slots is bizarre and fascinating though.
 
I have a few questions:
1. (Ignore these, already saw the responses in other entries) What about Titans and Juggernaut? Since this is a shipset and I see no mention of those, does that mean that nations created with an organic shipset wont have access to those 2 things? What about organic colossus? (I would really love an organic Juggernaut that 'hatches' ships)
2. Besides allowing more components, what other effects do the different stages have, increased hulls, armor etc? Do they increase range of weapons?
3. Balance wise, with Mauler being Corvettes and Weavers being Destroyers. Is it not an enormous disadvantage (considering that speed and range are king) for organics that they have no long range fighting capabilities until Cruisers tier? For instance, once an enemy nation has destroyers and artillery computer it could Kite Maulers considerably and get several hits on them before they get in range (which is quite short it seems)
4. Weavers sound awesome! But I have a couple doubts. First, will they prioritize targets without the buffs/debuffs? Or can it happen that several weavers (or several weapons on the same weaver) target the same ships over and over instead of spreading the buffs/debuffs over the entire fleet? What if the same target is buffed at the same time, does the buff duration increase or resets?
6. Weavers, balance wise, I think that for buff weapons the short range is not a huge deal, but for the debuffing ones it is. It means that our Destroyer equivalent ships are extremely short range, which can really hamper their capabilities to properly debuff the enemy.
7. Are the roles for these ships set in stone or can we modify them a bit? For instance, Maulers seem to be always swarm judging by the picture, can they have other behaviours?

Regarding the Juggernaut/Titans/Colossus Do they get any mechanic difference or just appearance?

EDIT: Note about seeing pint 1 already answered somewhere else.
 
View attachment 1272292
Different types of ships prompted our UX designer to give the Shipset selector a fresh coat of paint!

I really like this new design for the shipset selector... but it now makes me wish that the mechanical shipsets had a different style of names than just the species classes.

While obviously near the bottom of the priorities list, I'd love to see them getting new names in a similar style to Shellcraft and Spinovore.
 
I wonder if the ceveat of biological ships is that you do not have different choices of ship sections and thereby less flexibility in slots.

You still have different weapons and parts components.

For a standard Destroyer, it has 3 different bows and 3 different sterns. for 9 combinations.

For a stinger for example there are 2 types of stingers (line and artillery), each with its own type of slots. It is possible that there are less permutations.
it would not be possible to combine line section with artillery.

By the way great work on the biological ships. Not only do they look different, they have different purposes too.

I am sure they will be a headache for future DEVs concerning balance.

I also wonder if there is inclusion of (gory) birthing animations and organic sounds.. I mean I am too used too playing zerg.. whenever you click on a overlord.

Would it be possible for larger ships to birth smaller ships like the space faunas? Or do you need to grow/birth them in a shipyard?




 
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This all looks amazing, however i am a little bit worried about the balance of these ships. It looks like they have a lot more firepower just from the sheer amount of slots on each ship, are normal ship types getting some tweaks as well or will the MEAT ships just be stronger in general?

Another question, does selecting the MEAT ships lock you out of normal ship classes? if not then are there any changes being made to how tech is chosen? A lot of the new features recently have added a lot of bloat to the tech tree and that came just after a nerf to overall tech production. And it makes sense to me at least that if your an empire that uses MEAT ships then progress towards normal ships types would be less of a priority for you, but they will still bloat your engineering tech tree in the current system.
I just want to add that, by what they have already said, organic strike craft will be more numerous because it will have less hulls/armor and no shields, so they made it up with numbers. Additionally, it seems that the organic ship types will be more constrained.
 
I'm afraid this might ruin the balance. One battleship gets only a single X slot weapon, and that single slot is what players care about for the battleship, and the rest of the weapon slots are of marginal importance.

With mature stingers having FOUR X slot weapons, this would be quite OP.

And let's get started on carriers. The strike crafts have high evasion and armor instead of shields. This seems like a minor change, right?

WRONG! There are two types of picket weapons you could use: the point defense, which works against armor, and flak, which works against shields. Guess what? Point defenses have low tracking! This worked fine because missiles had low evasion, but with high evasion of the harbingers... well... good luck.

But I guess it's simply the will of the game to be in a perpetual power arms race anyway. Mechanical ships have nanites, menacing ships, and FE ships (cosmogenesis), so I guess this evens out the game.
Why are you booing him? He's right!
 
Besides allowing more components, what other effects do the different stages have, increased hulls, armor etc? Do they increase range of weapons?

Later growth stages are more expensive (in both cost and upkeep) but have more hp and different speeds and base evasion.

Balance wise, with Mauler being Corvettes and Weavers being Destroyers. Is it not an enormous disadvantage (considering that speed and range are king) for organics that they have no long range fighting capabilities until Cruisers tier? For instance, once an enemy nation has destroyers and artillery computer it could Kite Maulers considerably and get several hits on them before they get in range (which is quite short it seems)

Yes, one of the disadvantages of biological ships is in the early game they don’t have long range weapon solutions.

Weavers sound awesome! But I have a couple doubts. First, will they prioritize targets without the buffs/debuffs? Or can it happen that several weavers (or several weapons on the same weaver) target the same ships over and over instead of spreading the buffs/debuffs over the entire fleet? What if the same target is buffed at the same time, does the buff duration increase or resets?

They should prioritise targets that aren’t affected, but the buff/debuffs duration should be reset if a ship is targeted multiple times.

Weavers, balance wise, I think that for buff weapons the short range is not a huge deal, but for the debuffing ones it is. It means that our Destroyer equivalent ships are extremely short range, which can really hamper their capabilities to properly debuff the enemy.

This is one of factors we considered to try and balance them, long range weapons with debuffing capabilities were tested during development but rejected.

Are the roles for these ships set in stone or can we modify them a bit? For instance, Maulers seem to be always swarm judging by the picture, can they have other behaviours?

  • Maulers can have swarm or picket computers
  • Weavers can have computers to focus on buffing or debuffing
  • Harbingers can have computers for either carrier or artillery (in case you want them to make better use of energy torpedoes)
  • Stingers can have computers for either artillery or line behaviour.

Regarding the Juggernaut/Titans/Colossus Do they get any mechanic difference or just appearance?

The majority of their cost and upkeep is food instead of alloys and energy.
 
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Are there bio versions of stations and habitats?
Yes, was in the stream today.

The bioships seem like a lot more fun to play with than normal ships. Fun things are always good, but I do wonder if we will see a situation where a majority of people are playing bioships just for the fun factor. Regardless of strength or even if they work with their empire. Maybe we need some mechanical upgrades to regular machine ships to just make them more than the 'bland and reliable' ships.
Yes, one of the disadvantages of biological ships is in the early game they don’t have long range weapon solutions.
This plus the dedicated carrier ships in bio sets do improve dichotomy as well. but it's something I am thinking about.
 
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Yes, was in the stream today.

The bioships seem like a lot more fun to play with than normal ships. Fun things are always good, but I do wonder if we will see a situation where a majority of people are playing bioships just for the fun factor. Regardless of strength or even if they work with their empire. Maybe we need some mechanical upgrades to regular machine ships to just make them more than the 'bland and reliable' ships.

This plus the dedicated carrier ships in bio sets do improve dichotomy as well. but it's something I am thinking about.
What's so special about the dedicated carrier compared to a carrier battleship? Can't a battleship also have like 3 or 4 carrier slots?
 
MEAT SHIPS MEAT SHIPS MEAT SHIPS

Season 9 of Stellaris hitting the ground running!

Also super interesting bio-ships are getting their own gameplay niche as kind of new pseudo-mechanic, which means future packs could introduce more sets with different fantasies.
 
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What's so special about the dedicated carrier compared to a carrier battleship? Can't a battleship also have like 3 or 4 carrier slots?
I'm pretty sure battleships are 3 max. But also the bioship fighters are large in number, and the bioships have components to enhance their fighters even further. basically, it seems the bioship carriers will be better as carriers than the mechanical battleships. Making a different flavor compared to the mechanical fleets.
 
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Yes, was in the stream today.

The bioships seem like a lot more fun to play with than normal ships. Fun things are always good, but I do wonder if we will see a situation where a majority of people are playing bioships just for the fun factor. Regardless of strength or even if they work with their empire. Maybe we need some mechanical upgrades to regular machine ships to just make them more than the 'bland and reliable' ships.

This plus the dedicated carrier ships in bio sets do improve dichotomy as well. but it's something I am thinking about.
Bioships have distinct roles with relatively fixed loadouts or being limited to 3 core sizes (plus juggernauts and titans) are things I've been saying for years are what are needed to allow for designing ships that are actually fun.

Unfortunately either of these would lead to player revolts if applied to the general shipsets any time soon. Hopefully all the fun we'll be having with our cool meat ships will finally sway that tide.


E: oh wait there's four ship sizes. Eh, still, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
 
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In order to be completely clear, when designing a Biological Ship:
  • Stage 1 has the components in the RED BOX
  • Stage 2 has the components in the BLUE BOX
  • Stage 3 has the components in the YELLOW BOX
Core components (those on the right hand side) are selected for each stage by using the stage spinner on the right hand sidebar.

View attachment 1272366
I hope that the UI is made clearer somehow before release as it feels very unintuitive.

On another topic i hope that the growth model chosen doesn't hamper too much late game as if the game has to calculate the growth of every bioship in the galaxy every month performance might become an issue again on large maps.
 
Will Prethoryn fleets and their components become part of the biological fleets, or sometime that works with them? A Queen with biological bonuses but much larger than a Weaver would be interesting, maybe make a captured Queen allow you to open a new fleet type (i.e. do both).
 
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