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Tinto Maps #14 - 9th of August 2024 - Western Africa

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Maps, the day of the week for map nerds lovers! This week we will be taking a look at Western Africa! These lands were named historically in different ways, although probably the most widespread naming was Guinea, which also names the Gulf that makes for the southern limit of the region, with the Atlantic Ocean being to the west, the Sahara desert to the north, and the lands around Lake Chad making for the approximate eastern border.

With these regions, we’re also leaving the ‘Easy Mode Map-Making’ of Project Caesar, as getting comprehensive sources of information for 1337 for most of Sub-Saharan Africa is challenging, as the traditional historical record was oral, in contrast with the written records usual in Eurasia. In any case, we did our best to depict the rich history and geography of the region and its diversity, which is stunning. Let’s start, then!

Countries:
Countries.png

The most important country, and one of the world's great powers, is the Empire of Mali, which in 1337 is at its zenit, still ruled by the infamous Mansa Mūsā. It controls not only the core lands of the Mandé-speaking peoples, but also holds the overlordship over Jolof, most of the fertile Niger river basin, and some of the most important Saharan outposts. To its south-east, the Mossi are organized in several polities (Ougadagou, Gwiriko, Yatenga, Boussouma, Tenkodogo, and Liptako). South into the coast, Kong, Dagbon, Bonoman, and Mankessim are polities ruled by the Dyula, the Dagbani, and the Akan (the last two). To the east, Fada N’gourma, Borgu, and Mamprugu connect with the lands of the Hausa, which rule from several city-states: Kebbi, Gobir, Zafara, Katsina, Daura, Kano, Rano, and Zazzau. Further to the east, the Empire of Kanem rules the lands around Lake Chad from its capital in Njimi, and over some of the Saharan corridors, making it the region's second wealthiest country. And finally, further to the south, there are the lands of the Nupe, the Yoruba (Oyo, Ife, Ijebu, Owo), the Edo (Benin), and the Igbo (Nri).

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The dynasties of the region are a mix of well-known ones, such as the Keita of Mali, the Ndiaye of Jolof, or the Sayfawa of Kanem, and randomly generated ones for the rest of the polities, as we don’t have good enough sources on who was ruling over most of them in 1337.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
The locations of Western Africa. We’ve tried our best to find suitable locations, correct naming, etc., although I’m sure there might be plenty of feedback to apply.

Provinces:
Provinces.png


Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

This week we have proper Terrain mapmodes at the release of the Tinto Maps… Not much to say about them, though, as the climate and vegetation are pretty straightforward, being divided into Arid and Tropical; while the vegetation goes from desert and sparse beside the Sahara, to increasingly more forested terrain, until reaching the tropical jungles by the coast. The topography is not very fragmented, with the Guinean Highlands and the Adamawa Plateau being the most important landmarks.

Natural Harbors:
Harbors.png

A new map mode this week, coming from the latest Tinto Talks! There are some decent natural harbors in the region, with Banana Islands (where Freetown would be founded), Elmina, and Calabar being the best ones.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

A beautiful map this week… I may repeat that we tried our best to approach the region, taking into account that this was the first African region we completed, around 3 years ago. When we review it, we may add some more diversity, as we have now some more tools than the ones we had back in time, but we think that it’s way best to read your feedback first, to make sure we are on the same page.

Religions:
Religion.png

Take this map as very WIP. The Sunni-Animism division is kind of accurate, with the expected division for 1337 (Islam would later on advance more to the South, but we think this is the best for this date). What we have yet to do is to divide the ‘Animism’ population into some of the regional variants; we already have plenty of data, but we also want to read your feedback on this first.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The goods of the region are quite diverse and very dependent on the geography. In the Saharan lands, there are plenty of locations with resources such as Salt, Copper, or Alum (regarding this resource, the lands to the north of Lake Chad make for the densest Alum hub in the world for 1337, something the historical sources talk about). Livestock is king in the Sahelian lands, while there are plenty of agricultural goods in the Niger river basin. The region is also full of luxury goods, of which Gold is the most relevant, as being the biggest supply of this metal to the Mediterranean and Europe in the Late Middle Ages, while also having others such as Ivory, Gems, or Spices (which in this region are portraying some goods such as kola nuts, or malagueta pepper). Finally, the coasts of the Gulf of Guinea have plenty of Fish. Maybe the only type of good that is not very abundant in the region is metals, as having some Iron, Tin, etc., but not much in comparison with other regions.

Markets:
Markets.png

Markets of the region, have an interesting distribution. The most important ones in 1337 are Niani, Kano, and Njimi, which are also connected to the Northern African markets, making it possible to get plenty of wealth by exporting well-demanded goods throughout the Sahara (for instance, exporting Gold or Alum for good money is a very viable strategy ATM). Later on, after the Age of Discovery, the coastal markets may get connected to other markets, making them more relevant, and maybe switching the power balance of the region from the North to the South, as historically happened (but take it as a ‘maybe’, not for granted, OFC!).

Population:
Population .png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png

Population 5.png
Population of the region. We’ve improved a bit our tracking of the population data, to avoid further problems like the one we had with Germany. I can tell you that the total population of Western Africa is around 5.6M people, which is divided into 2.2M for the Sahel, and 3.3M for the coast of Guinea. You may very well notice that the hegemonic power here may be Mali, with around 700k people, but also that there are many more people not living under the rule of a polity, than living under it, which will make for interesting gameplay on how to deal with it (more about this in a later Tinto Talks, soon…).

And, speaking of that, I have the sad news that next Friday there is a bank holiday here in Spain, so there won’t be a Tinto Maps. The next one will be on Friday 23rd, and we will be taking a look at Eastern Africa! Until then, you may still stay tuned, as we will be replying to feedback, as usual, and we may have some informal maps incoming. Cheers!
 
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How much change is everybody expecting to see next week?
I'm (perhaps naively) optimistic about Mali being balkanized into vassals, Yorubaland being filled in a bit more, and a moderate bump in population. I could see them adding a Fulani SoP. Maybe we'll see a handful of new locations if we're lucky. They said on this original post they might add some more cultures, but probably not a huge amount. They might have renamed or even split Bantoid culture. Maybe Kong and Gwiriko will be removed.

Language map as a whole probably hasn't been changed, such that entire language families are still called languages, but I will be looking to see whether two errors have been fixed: Gonja should be Kwa, nor Gur, and Bulala should be Bagirmi, not Saharan. Another error would be the Godala Berbers being pagan, I think what happened is the culture and religion map didn't line up when they split animism. But Berbers should already be fully Islamized. On the other hand, I would like to see the Bambara and Mandinka be mainly pagan, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

But like I said, I would not be surprised at all to see some minor reshuffling and tidying and few substantial changes, like East Africa.
 
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Frankly, none of import. The Horn of Africa feedback has me thinking it would be a miracle if even the egregious population numbers are fixed; it has deflated my excitedness to play the game. I'd been thinking about making some pretty lengthy posts on parts of West Africa (even drafted quite a bit for a flavour suggestion), because I genuinely think it could be one of the most exciting regions with appropriate handling. I have no longer have confidence it would be worth the time.

Perhaps the devs underestimated how much interest there actually is in playing Africa nowadays, perhaps they know but still can't allocate resources to it. Still disappointing in either case.
Save that energy for modding, king. I always thought it would turn out this way. Just look at the Mountains of the Moon mod and what it did with EU4's setup and mechanics, and think how much better of a base this game is going to be.
 
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Save that energy for modding, king. I always thought it would turn out this way. Just look at the Mountains of the Moon mod and what it did with EU4's setup and mechanics, and think how much better of a base this game is going to be.
It would be useful to have it in this thread as a resource for other modders, at least.
 
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It would be useful to have it in this thread as a resource for other modders, at least.
As well as just getting ideas out there so you have some place to track them later instead of potentially forgetting about them.

Why do you think I make so many suggestion threads?
 
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As much as I'd love to believe there will be substantial change, I doubt it, leaving us with weird janky provinces.

I expect Mali to gain a few new vassals and a few new countries to be created, most likely in Yorubaland, but other than that, nothing concrete.
 
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How much change is everybody expecting to see next week?

Unsure but still optimistic. Maybe they didn't incorporate so much feedback into the Horn of Africa because they did their own research and disagreed with the findings of the users - I know next to nothing about the region so I have no idea. A possible issue here for West Africa is that some of the feedback was made only fairly recently in what is a post that is several months old, so maybe they were posted too late to be incorporated into the feedback - I assume these things follow a schedule and pipeline. I don't know if that was also the case for the Horn of Africa but it may have been.

A lot of it is going to boil down to how 'generous' they want to be with West Africa. By 'generous' I mean that they easily, for example, can paint most of Yoruba territory with Ile-Ife and then make Nupe an SOP and add one vassal to Mali and call it a day. Technically, this isn't a massively incorrect portrayal but it is going to be very lacking. On the other side of the spectrum, they could be super-generous and get a trainee to spend a whole month digging up every single Yoruba city-state that existed in 1337 and mapping into a map and seeing if it is possible to represent each one without going too overboard with locations (spoiler alert, it probably isn't).

But considering how much work they have in each region, I find it unlikely they unearth countries and polities from their own research that users in this thread have not already mentioned. But I will be very happy if they do. I will be happy anyway if they just incorporate most things that were written in this thread + cultures being represented better + more SOPs.
 
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Frankly, none of import. The Horn of Africa feedback has me thinking it would be a miracle if even the egregious population numbers are fixed; it has deflated my excitedness to play the game. I'd been thinking about making some pretty lengthy posts on parts of West Africa (even drafted quite a bit for a flavour suggestion), because I genuinely think it could be one of the most exciting regions on the map. I have no longer have confidence it would be worth the time.

Perhaps the devs underestimated how much interest there actually is in playing Africa nowadays, perhaps they know but still can't allocate resources to it. Still disappointing in either case.
Imo you might as well post it, in the next feedback thread if not this one. Having the information out there can't hurt
 
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How much change is everybody expecting to see next week?
Perhaps this is just cope, but I'm hopeful they'll at least add a decent amount of new tags to the region. We've had one pretty decent feedback with the Ilkhanate (even if there were no new locations added unfortunately) and one underwhelming feedback with East Africa, so I'd say rn chances of a decent West Africa feedback are 50/50.
 
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Do we have an estimate on what Mali's population should be? Googling it usually brings up 10s of millions and I'm not expecting that, but did it have somewhere around 1-2 million or so?
I'm definitely biased but the comments are still there if you want to go through them, I'll link some below. The general consensus was that West Africa as a whole should have *roughly* 10-20 million people and that Mali itself should have around a third of that so ≈ 3-6 million.

Ultimately pop numbers depend on how "colonizeable" the devs want to make the region and how possible they want to make it for a stable Mali to contest for the New World. For the former imo the regions of West Africa that were colonized during the game period were the pretty low-pop regions between the Senegambia and Volta and the entire region was barely settled by the end date anyway. The latter concern is a bigger issue that is, imo, a fundamentally unavoidable outcome of making discovering and settling the New World systemic. But the game lets German states, Morocco, and Japan do colonization too so I don't think it's a huge problem.

@Pavía The General History of Africa Vol. 4 is from 1984, that's a very old secondary source. Newer publications should usually be considered as more reliable because they reflect the more recent state of the art which means that they also reflect the discussions on specific issues such as population figures. In demographic research, within the last four decades, we had the rise of computer science for modeling populations (which was only to some degree viable in the 1980s), combined with general trends of doing interdisciplinary research to conduct, e.g., historical linguistics and ethnographic approaches together with paleoenvironmental approaches and archeology. These are approaches that are relevant for discussions on the Anthropocene, which is again an entirely new concept that was popularized in the 1990s / early 2000s due to debates on climate change and environmental issues.

To get back to population figures, there is more than one generation of scholars that worked on population numbers after the General History of Africa. In this time period, there have been entirely new approaches and paradigms, like global and transnational history, environmental history, queer and gender studies, postcolonial studies, cultural studies, etc. etc.

The general trend of recent scholarship that put the figures for sub-Saharan Africa much higher than previously (?) are also reflected in Green (2012, p. 243):
  • 1300: 60M.; 1400: 60M.; 1500: 78M.; 1600: 104M.; 1700: 97M.; 1800: 92M.; 1850: 90M.; 1900: 95M.
What we tend to forget, due to the projections we use, is that (sub-Saharan) Africa is huge. Let's take a look at the Mollweide projection below:
View attachment 1173809
The Qing Empire had roughly 14,7 million square kilometers, whereas sub-Saharan Africa has 24,3 million square kilometers. Europe, on the other hand, only has about 10 million square kilometers. That is, sub-Saharan Africa is about 66% larger than the Qing Empire. China currently has 1,4 billion people, whereas sub-Saharan Africa has 1,2 billion people. Population projections for the year 2100 estimate 3 billion people for sub-Saharan Africa.

The point is that it's not implausible at all that sub-Saharan Africa had somewhere between 30-50 million inhabitants in 1300, given its enormous size and enormous resources, and considering the current trajectories in population growth. Moreover, since we do have much more reliable sources for population figures in later centuries, we can at least infer (backcast) what the population figures might have looked like in 1300, considering that we would have to calibrate the growth rates to explain the numbers that we deem as more reliable. Exactly this is what population modeling has been doing in the last couple of decades.

Reference
Green, E. D. (2012). Demographic change and conflict in contemporary Africa. In J. A. Goldstone, E. P. Kaufmann, & M. D. Toft (Eds.), Political demography: How population changes are reshaping international security and national politics (pp. 238–263). Oxford University Press.

*edit* I double checked Green, and the figures of 50-60M. are rather old, too (1979). Currently checking for newer academic sources in journals instead of books, might take a day or two.

Those estimates still feel a bit excessive but I would definitely argue that Mali as its maximum extent (a tad larger than at game start) may have had around 3.5 mil people, so that would a nearly 5 times pop increase in the area still.

Oh okay, thanks for the clarification. From what I read over the past weeks, very high estimates put Africa (the entire continent) on par with Europe around 1300, but 50M. for West Africa alone seems extremely high, I totally agree. But again, I will double check some journals for more recent numbers, it's an incredible challenge to find any reliable source on that issue (so I can only guess how many months the entire Paradox Tinto team has invested into population numbers only).

*edit* the reason why I initially assumed that Pavía was referring to sub-Saharan Africa as a whole was because he wrote that "Western Africa is around 5.6M people." If that is the case, where are the remaining 45-55M. people? Even if we take the very low estimates of 30M. for sub-Saharan Africa, then 5,6M. is incredibly low for West Africa. There are about 419M. currently living in West Africa, that is about 1/3 of sub-Saharan Africa's population. That is, there should be around 10-20M. people in West Africa if we infer from current population distributions (which is definitely not a good method due to differences in income across Africa and related fertility rates, but better than arbitrary distributions).

Seem like West Africa should be around 10-20 million

Averaging these out and then going with a middle value between 1000 and 1500 you get 50.95 million for all of Africa in the 1300s. If we remove the already confirmed Egyptian and Maghreb populations from the current Tinto maps, one gets:

~ 37 491 000 population in Sub-Saharan Africa in 1300s

And I mean this sounds about right for the period, development and climate. And I think one of the higher estimates on the list is still skewing it too high. You can't really argue for more than this at all.

And if we assign West Africa a percentage of 35%.

You'd get a population of ~13 milion which honestly I think would be perfect.

Population in West Africa
Be prepared that this is going to be a longer text, I did my best to summarize the discussion. The point is the population figures for West Africa in the 14th century. Unfortunately, we don’t have a census here, so most of it is based on historians’ guesswork. What I am focusing on is the contribution of Joseph E. Inikori (2014) who provides a detailed discussion on African population numbers from 1400–1850 CE, in particular in comparison to the Americas. This is in particular a response to the discussion on the General History of Africa Vol. 4 and the figures of Djibril Tamsir Niane. Personally, I would treat this source with caution since it was published four decades ago. As a general rule of thumb, newer literature should always be considered as more reliable, which is why I am doing this review.

What has been previously discussed by Pavía was the figure of 40-50 million people for West Africa in the 14th century which has been suggested by Niane (1984). Notably, Niane himself is reluctant to give any projections of population numbers, but from the Arabic sources he cites, the size of Gao’s stationed army, and other factors he mobilizes, he assumes that the Niger Bend must have been densely populated, and he gives the figure of 200 million people for the entire African continent (pp. 683–684).

However, as Inikori (2014) reminds us, “Like all demographic estimates for these early periods across the globe, we can all agree, Niane’s estimates must have a large margin of error” (p. 60). In Inikori’s view, early population figures should generally be treated as “orders of magnitude,” cautioning readers to apply “reasoned judgment on evidence concerning sociopolitical organization, agricultural production, and land use” (p. 60). Against this background, he discusses Patrick Manning's figure according to which 100 million people lived on the entire African continent in 1500 CE, 50-60 million of whom lived in Central and West Africa. Based on current research on West and Central Africa, Inikori assumes that in 1500 CE, at least two third of the higher projection, that is 40 million, lived in West Africa. With a size of 2,4 million square miles (i.e., 6,216,000 square kilometers), this means that the population density was 16.7 people per square mile (i.e., 6.435 people per square kilometer). Thus, during the 15th and 16th centuries, “Density in the Niger Bend could not have been less than 25 per square mile” (p. 60).

[I'm skipping the discussion on the Americas here.] Inikori asserts that during the 14th and late 15th centuries, “West Africa was by far more densely populated than the Americas” (p. 61). His argument is based on a range of evidence, including geographical advantages that allowed easy transport along the Niger River and through the savanna plains, flood plains and natural resources (e.g., metals such as copper), and finally the growth of the population and emergence of urban centers which led to a growth of commerce and market economy. These trends did not only manifest in the Niger Bend, but throughout West Africa, with the Niger Bend serving as a “powerful growth pole for all the subregions” (p. 61). Overall, Inikori attests a flourishing market economy in the Niger Bend since the Middle Ages, which progressed particularly in the late 15th century with the emergence of interregional trade with Europe and the Middle East.

While I share Inikori’s general assessment that the population density in West Africa might have been higher than the lower ends, e.g., Maddison (2001/2006) whose numbers have been widely circulated (e.g., May & Goldstone, 2022), exact data cannot be found. It therefore makes sense to at least approximate the figures and flank them with other figures that are easier to find in order to arrive at an estimate.

1300 CE
World population:
Europe:
Middle East and North Africa:
China:
India:
Inca Empire:
1500 CE
World population:
China:
India:
Sub-Saharan Africa:
Americas:
Discussion
Despite being widely quoted, I have not included the data from J. R. Biraben from 1979, as I consider them to be too old. Fist, looking at the numbers for 1500 CE, Inikori’s / Manning's numbers seem way too high; most estimates for the world population in 1500 CE are around 430 million. Maddison (2001/2006), who calculated a world population of 438 million in 1500 CE, has assessed that sub-Saharan Africa had 43 million people in 1500 CE.

Second, for 1300 CE most figures for the world population are around 400 million people. If we combine the numbers for India, China and Europe, we arrive at around 280-300 million people. I have not found much data on the Americas, but Statistika (which I do not consider to be a reliable source and which I would never cite) casts a projection of 35 million people in North and South America in 1300 CE. Koch et al. (2019), who carried out a meta analysis using regional population data, estimate that in 1500 CE around 60 million people lived in the Americas. This leaves us with maybe around 65-85 million people to allocate. Depending what others have found for Japan and other parts of Asia, Australia, the Pacific region, etc., I think a moderate estimate for Africa would arrive at around 40-60 million people. Following the discussion of Inikori, if we assume that at least half of those 40-60 million people lived in Central and West Africa, then we arrive at 20/25/30 million people. If we take two thirds of those and allocate them to West Africa, then we should have between 13 and 20 million people in West Africa.

This is only a very rough estimate, based on all the sources I could find for population data around the world. I would appreciate if you could give feedback with more numbers on other parts of the world, especially the Americas and Asia, and if you would point out errors in my argument.

Reference
Belich, J. (2024). The world the plague made: The black death and the rise of Europe. Princeton University Press.
Burke, E. (2009). The big story: Human history, energy regimes, and the environment. In E. Burke & K. Pomeranz (Eds.), The environment and world history (pp. 33–53). University of California Press.
Clayton, A. M. H., & Radcliffe, N. J. (1996). Sustainability: A systems approach. Earthscan.
Fernández-Armesto, F. (Ed.). (2023). The Oxford history of the world. Oxford University Press.
Holdstock, D. (2008). Article commentary: Environmental health: threats and their interactions. Environmental Health Insights, 2, EHI.S1003. https://doi.org/10.4137/EHI.S1003
Hoyt, K. (2022). Unequal encounters: A reader in early Latin American political thought. Lexington books.
Inikori, J. E. (2014). Reversal of fortune and socioeconomic development in the Atlantic world: A comparative examination of West Africa and the Americas, 1400–1850. In E. Akyeampong, R. H. Bates, N. Nunn, & J. Robinson (Eds.), Africa’s Development in Historical Perspective (pp. 56–88). Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9781139644594.004
Koch, A., Brierley, C., Maslin, M. M., & Lewis, S. L. (2019). Earth system impacts of the European arrival and Great Dying in the Americas after 1492. Quaternary Science Reviews, 207, 13–36. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.quascirev.2018.12.004
Maddison, A. (2006). The world economy: Volume 1: a millennial perspective and volume 2: historical statistics. OECD. https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/development/the-world-economy_9789264022621-en (Original work published 2001)
Malanima, P. (2009). Pre-modern European economy: One thousand years (10th–19th centuries). Brill.
May, J. F., & Goldstone, J. A. (2022). Contemporary population issues. In J. F. May & J. A. Goldstone (Eds.), International handbook of population policies. Springer. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-031-02040-7
Niane, D. T. (1984). Conclusion. In D. T. Niane & J. Ki-Zerbo (Eds.), Africa from the twelfth to the sixteenth century (pp. 673–686). University of California Press.
Nightingale, C. (2022). Earthopolis: A biography of our urban planet. Cambridge University Press.
Northrop, R. B., & Connor, A. N. (2016). Ecological sustainability: Understanding complex issues. CRC Press.
O’Brien, P. (2010). Atlas of world history (2nd ed.). Oxford University Press.
Penna, A. N. (2015). The human footprint: A global environmental history (2nd ed.). Wiley Blackwell.
Rosen, W. (2012). The most powerful idea in the world: A story of steam, industry, and invention. University of Chicago Press.
Sharma, R. K. (2007). Demography and population problems. Atlantic Publishers & Distributors.
Wiesner-Hanks, M. E. (2013). Early Modern Europe, 1450–1789 (2nd ed.). Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9781139381192
 
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Thank you very much for sharing that and making it easier to find it all in one spot! I appreciate having a rough idea of what we should see for the Malian population hopefully we'll see something similar on Monday.
 
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I hope for Mali vassals and more countries in Yorubaland, and more SoPs of course, I am really surprised with the lack of a Fulo SoP at the moment.
However, after reading the Horn of Africa revision I am more concerded about the lack of events, Horn of Africa apparently has nothing abou the history of the region in the event system beyond flavor for Ethiopia. In West Africa the Fulani Wars with the possible spawn of Futa Tooro and Futa Jallon should be a Situation for the region at minimum.
 
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Ultimately pop numbers depend on how "colonizeable" the devs want to make the region and how possible they want to make it for a stable Mali to contest for the New World. For the former imo the regions of West Africa that were colonized during the game period were the pretty low-pop regions between the Senegambia and Volta and the entire region was barely settled by the end date anyway. The latter concern is a bigger issue that is, imo, a fundamentally unavoidable outcome of making discovering and settling the New World systemic. But the game lets German states, Morocco, and Japan do colonization too so I don't think it's a huge problem.
There wasn't really much colonization in continental West Africa during the game's time coverage. European coastal forts were frequently on lease-land formally settled via arrangement with local polities; if one wishes to consider them "colonies", sure, but the implication of that kind of arrangement is obviously very different to simply setting up shop willy-nilly. Senegambia, Liberia, and Sierra Leone saw the most significant colonial penetration, and any land holdings of note were all extremely late-game (1800s).

Imo you might as well post it, in the next feedback thread if not this one. Having the information out there can't hurt
maybe, i'll see if I can scrounge up the motivation & time to finish it.
 
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There wasn't really much colonization in continental West Africa during the game's time coverage. European coastal forts were frequently on lease-land formally settled via arrangement with local polities; if one wishes to consider them "colonies", sure, but the implication of that kind of arrangement is obviously very different to simply setting up shop willy-nilly. Senegambia, Liberia, and Sierra Leone saw the most significant colonial penetration, and any land holdings of note were all extremely late-game (1800s).


maybe, i'll see if I can scrounge up the motivation & time to finish it.
Considering the state of the pacific in EU4 (fully colonized by like 1650 despite not being even mostly colonized by the late 1800s), I don't have high hopes for such things in this game.
 
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Considering the state of the pacific in EU4 (fully colonized by like 1650 despite not being even mostly colonized by the late 1800s), I don't have high hopes for such things in this game.
This game is seemingly intent on being more realistic, to some degree.
 
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There wasn't really much colonization in continental West Africa during the game's time coverage. European coastal forts were frequently on lease-land formally settled via arrangement with local polities; if one wishes to consider them "colonies", sure, but the implication of that kind of arrangement is obviously very different to simply setting up shop willy-nilly. Senegambia, Liberia, and Sierra Leone saw the most significant colonial penetration, and any land holdings of note were all extremely late-game (1800s).

maybe, i'll see if I can scrounge up the motivation & time to finish it.
I know, doesn't mean the devs intend for the game to work out that way, especially with how the region was designed in EU4 and how colonization currently works
 
I know, doesn't mean the devs intend for the game to work out that way, especially with how the region was designed in EU4 and how colonization currently works
Any other direction would be... disappointing for a game billing itself as an accuracy upgrade over the previous iteration. Especially given the (somewhat simplistic) disease system seems to be intended to prevent too much colonization in Africa. We will see.
 
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I hope for Mali vassals and more countries in Yorubaland, and more SoPs of course, I am really surprised with the lack of a Fulo SoP at the moment.
However, after reading the Horn of Africa revision I am more concerded about the lack of events, Horn of Africa apparently has nothing abou the history of the region in the event system beyond flavor for Ethiopia. In West Africa the Fulani Wars with the possible spawn of Futa Tooro and Futa Jallon should be a Situation for the region at minimum.
No Oromo migrations and Adal/Ottoman/Portuguese shenanigans for Ethiopia was truly a crime. Its a self-fulling prophecy -> less focus & content -> less players & interest -> less dev resources spend -> less interest -> "Africans lived in mud huts and history started only when europeans colonized the continent"
 
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I hope for Mali vassals and more countries in Yorubaland, and more SoPs of course, I am really surprised with the lack of a Fulo SoP at the moment.
However, after reading the Horn of Africa revision I am more concerded about the lack of events, Horn of Africa apparently has nothing abou the history of the region in the event system beyond flavor for Ethiopia. In West Africa the Fulani Wars with the possible spawn of Futa Tooro and Futa Jallon should be a Situation for the region at minimum.
To be honest, the Fulani wars are kind of late in the timeline. They should be in, but a better priority could be the collapse of Mali and the rise of Jolof, Songhai, Fulo/Denianké, the Mane invasions in Sierra Leone. And of course the slave trade. And in Yorubaland, the eclipse of Ife by Oyo.
 
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To be honest, the Fulani wars are kind of late in the timeline. They should be in, but a better priority could be the collapse of Mali and the rise of Jolof, Songhai, Fulo/Denianké, the Mane invasions in Sierra Leone. And of course the slave trade. And in Yorubaland, the eclipse of Ife by Oyo.
I am a bit sad that they didnt add more centralized countries in yorubaland, lets hope that the second pass fixes it.
 
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