As the title says. There are plenty of Turkic people with blonde, brown and red hairs and with eyes of a variety of colors and yet for some reason PDX just writes them all off as black haired with brown monolid eyes.
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well you're in luck because the upcoming DLC seems to change the ethnic appearance of the western turkic groups to look more persian/caucasian
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I wouldn't say they "believe" anything about the turkic people, it's more that they haven't given them much attention in the development cycle yet save for a few things
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Historical turkic tribes had eastern features like slanted eyes,black hair etc.Even contemporary historians like Al Kashgari attest to this.The talk about blonde style Turks is pseudohistory or pseudo dna results being post online by nationalists.
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Oh, ok, then I guess that a variety of Turkic ethnic groups living within Russia that have all sorts of hair and eye colors and don't have monolid eyes must have getting surgeries, contact lenses and dying their hair then.
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These people heavily intermixed with the Slavs and if you are referencing modern times not within the time table of ck3.The turkic tribes of Ferghana,Zhetysu and the rest of the eastern steppe would have exclusively eastern asian features.
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Apparently he means the Turkic tribes that lived in the neighborhood of the Slavs and Finno-Ugric tribes, not the Turkic tribes of the eastern steppe. As far as I know such peoples as Volga Bulgars and Cumans-Kipchkaks could really look much more caucasian, though I have no sources.
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Snarky much? Anyway it’s called Kievan Rus or Muscovy in the game time frame, not Russia. Russia is a later cultural invention for a different game.
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The wiki mentions Turkic peoples as a whole “were made up of heterogenous and somatically dissimilar populations”… so you could see the eastern ones being more like the in-game models, and the western ones being closer to the Indo-Iranian peoples who lived there, and the far western edge of the Steppe space should have more of the types you demand the Turkic group should resemble instead.
Reading about these foreign people for the first time, I am curious why everyone ignores the Indo-Iranian makeup of the western and central Turkic people, and insists on focusing on the far western edge like you do, or the eastern edge like the game does. With 3 clearly distinct outsider populations mixing with the locals across the entire width of the steppe, we can probably get a nuanced and heterogenous population once all the nearby outsider groups, individually, get their chance at a DLC.
So maybe you will get your way one of these years, when we get the western steppe DLC, and the Turkic culture group gets divided between center and east and west.
Turkic peoples - Wikipedia
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It's funny, but technically the name Russia (the Latin name of Rus since the 12th century) is much more historical for that time than Kievan Rus (a term invented in the 19th century by Russian historians) or Muscovy (a term invented by the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth to designate the Tsardom of Russia).
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So true, it’s really the same thing with the Byzantine Empire versus the Eastern Roman Empire. We had to add specific names after the fact to differentiate.
English is sadly peculiar like that. Using Russia is disingenuous and just wrong because the people who would become Russians in the future mostly don’t even live there yet, but in Latin they would use a similar word in the last decades of the game to describe the Varangians and Ruthenians who migrated into the region earlier in the game.
Edit - I’m reading about these people now, and I can already see Russia is the Hellenized form (which would mean the Byzantine region used that word), while Ruthenia is the latinized form (so Western Europe would have used Ruthenia). The rulers at the time after Yaroslav the Wise published the Russkaya Pravda, so just before the main start date of the game...
…so from a modern Slavic standpoint, they don’t actually see a real name change in their history books, plenty of medieval states used Ruskiy or a similar form the entire time, while us western English speakers experienced multiple naming conventions creating the need for specific terms for each of the states. Good thing Russians themselves invented Kievan Rus for us to use to be more accurate in English…
But that’s all off topic. It’s not at all clear which region the poster is calling “Russia”, only the Kyivan region is part of the steppe, Volgograd is too far north. Muscovy, also too far north, was settled later so he’s clearly not talking about those lands. I will assume Kyivan Rus is what he meant.
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No Russia is correct, because it's referring to the boundaries of modern-day Russia not the Rus'. The Western Turkic peoples mentioned here such as the Volga Bulgars did not live in the boundaries of the Rus' and were only incorporated into a East Slavic state after the formation of the Tsardom of Russia.
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That wasn’t made clear at all. I don’t know how you can make that assumption. We are talking about Turkic people with Varangian features. Looking up Volga Bulgars now.
My point is Russia is completely outside the time frame of the game. It’s like calling the Greeks in Turkey during Imperial Roman time Ottomans. It’s not the same people at all.
Edit - I feel a strong urge to explain. Adding spoiler tag so we don’t clutter up the page.
Okay, let me give an example. Here I am in Michigan. A thousand years ago, some natives lived here. We are talking about the Potawatomi who lived here 250 years ago, why they don’t look like the people who live here today. I can drive a few miles to the plaque that identifies the old Potawatomi village down the river from Fort Detroit. It was an ethnically diverse group of people living next to a British (formerly French) trading fort. They are adding Six Nations faces and warrior dress to a Revolutionary War game, and the Potawatomi were completely left out of this expansion, well they got a red coat skin, which they did wear historically, but it’s not their native dress. I’m annoyed that the Potawatomi were left out.
I am NOT going to say “a variety of ethnic groups living within America that have all sorts of facial features is not represented in a Revolutionary War game”.
We are talking about the Potawatomi! English is stupidly contextual. You don’t do that stuff and expect to be understood accurately. Just saying.
I am NOT going to say “a variety of ethnic groups living within America that have all sorts of facial features is not represented in a Revolutionary War game”.
We are talking about the Potawatomi! English is stupidly contextual. You don’t do that stuff and expect to be understood accurately. Just saying.
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Nah, Russia is a pretty accurate term considering it is just a Greek tranlation of "Rus", because you know Greeks were very big inspiration for actual Russian statehood, and actual Russian state inherited a lot from Greeks, not some crazy wild peasants that pastured themselves in a steppe with turckics and claim to be the sole inheritors. Kievan Rus is stupid term that broke the western mind, because Rus was actually more Vladimiran and rulers from Moskow held title "Grand Knyaz of all Rus" far more longer.
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I think he was meaning modern Russian Federation, including Siberia.
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Intermixed with Slavs? Yes. Heavily? Don’t think so, not in the way you think of at least. They were very likely already heavily intermixed(not with Slavs) by the time of the start dates. Just look at Tarim mummies for example. People with europoid features have been present on that side of the steppes for thousands of years. Also even much closer to the time of the game Turkic people have been mixing, Goths, Gepids and other Germanic people were part of the Huns with known marriages between them, several Germanic kings/chieftains/nobles bear names thought to be of Turkic origin and there are Huns whose name is thought to be of Germanic origin such as Laudericus, blood relative of Attila. Avars in Pannonia also mixed with Slavs and Gepids. Nomads mingle and have been doing it for a long time by the time of the start dates.
Yes. I thought talking about surgeries and contact lenses would make it obvious that it is the modern day Russian Federation, but apparently not.
Actually, there are those living within the boundaries of Rus’, serving as border guards.
Tork people - Wikipedia
Black Klobuks - Wikipedia
I realize now how I’m being difficult. It honestly never occurred to me that such a surgery existed.
I thought you were simply being snarky against people who disagreed with you, but doing it with the oddest mishmash of phrases and words that didn’t make any sense, and since I very much enjoy being helpful, I was passing on my accomplished mastery of how important context is to being understood in English, lol... Give you a hint where your English was misleading, I thought you were being disjointed, but instead you were coming from an entirely different, foreign, context...
So the eye surgery you are talking about, to fold the lid, that’s a real thing in the East? Huh, I never would have guessed in a million years. It is a recessive gene, so it can pop out at any time where you have such a mixed population as yours... I guess it makes sense, sorta (ok I can’t lie, it does not really make sense still, but I’ll accept what I’m reading online and learn something new). Man learns something new every day. Thanks for the clarification.
Edit - and for completeness, blue eyes are also recessive, so same thing there. Thankfully you only need sunglasses for that one.
Edit - and for completeness, blue eyes are also recessive, so same thing there. Thankfully you only need sunglasses for that one.
tldr: The statement you posted came across as so contrived in my mind, I never once thought you were serious about it, that you must have simply missed why it contextually made no sense.
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