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ParanoiaMod

Corporal
Apr 7, 2025
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I am sure that Syncretic Evolution has plenty of feedback threads already. But I must make my own:

I love playing Necrophages. I despise playing Syncretic Evolution about 90% of the time, with two specific exceptions.

There are some reasons for this:
Serviles is considered a positive trait, with a positive cost. As such, one can not be rid of it even when it has outlived its minor usefulness.
Serviles greatly increases the need for micromanagement without actual adequate pay-off.
About 80% of the time one randomizes (Random Start) into Syncretic Evolution, the traits given to the secondary AND primary Species are incredibly ineffective. Nothing like high Leader lifespan for a Species that will never generate Leaders, and primary Species being better at being workers than the actual Serviles are.

Also Syncretic Evolution is just kinda boring. It feels like more underwhelming Prosperous Unification, the most vanilla of all starts.


The only cases where I have do not re-roll randomizing into Syncretic Evolution is when either the secondary Species is Lithoid, in which case they can be used to jump-start conquering otherwise low-Habitability Planets, or when the primary species is robotic (no idea how that works), in which case, sometimes, the secondary species growing on its own makes the alloy-economy slightly easier early.

There are two ways I would suggest Syncretic Evolution to be changed:
Serviles should trun from a positive 1-cost Species trait into a NEGATIVE -1-cost Species trait. As this means the secondary Species can be highly useful despite its limitations, AND randomizing into this Origin is less likely to produce a Species that just makes no sense. Sure, it would still likely have a trait that goes to waste, but, then again, Serivles would mean they have one more Trait-point to play with, so a trait wasted is less of an issue.
Secondly, since the trait would be negative, one could remove it.

A bit more major alternative or complementary change:
Make it so that Serviles Species has ENTIRELY DIFFERENT Planet-type (Wet/Dry/Cold) preference from the primary Species. So, if Syncretic Evolution started on, say, Ocean Planet, Primary Species has Wet-preference (as normal), BUT the secondary (Servile) Species would otherwise not have Wet Planet Preference, but either Dry or Cold Planet Preference (still has homeworld Habitability bonus).
In other words: Syncretic Evolution would come with the downsides of Syncretic Evolution, but one would effectively start with Species with two different Planet Type Preferences instead of one. Which would really help with early game expansion.
If this would be too underwhelming, Serviles-Trait could contain further +60% homeworld Habitability. Or just exact Planet preference by homeworld's type (say, Ocean specifically instead of Wet generally), so that one can make full use of the guaranteed Habitable worlds as well.

In either case, removing Serviles trait should yield some sort of positive Event chain for this Origin. It feels off that adjusting the very premise of the origin has no consequences as far as I can tell, despite how it should have major cultural implications for the entire Empire.
Whereas removing Serviles from only a PART of the Servile secondary Species would lead to a possible uprising Event chain when the uplifted former serviles rebel against the oppression of their brethren.


Serviles turning into a negative trait (so that it feels more worthwhile AND the random Syncretic starts would suck much less) and there being actual chain of Events tied to removing it are what I would consider to be primary importance as far as this feedback goes.
The "different Planet-type Preference" suggestion is just an alternative I would consider worthwhile so that this Origin would REALLY adjust the way one approaches playing the game.

As is? I can think of exactly zero cases for Syncretic Evolution where I would not just rather play Necrophages instead. Which feels like a waste of the potential of Syncretic Evolution as an Origin.


Tldr: Syncretic Evolution is underwhelming, ESPECIALLY when one Random Starts into it. Please fix.
 
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I like playing this origin.
It is simple, but can be used a lot of ways.

For example with the farmer civic for more food or if you are playing elgalitarian and want happy, productive workers.
 
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I like playing this origin.
It is simple, but can be used a lot of ways.

For example with the farmer civic for more food or if you are playing elgalitarian and want happy, productive workers.

About 80% of the time I randomize into this Origin, it feels utterly horrible to play.
I mean, sure, I am certain that if one micromanages the exact starting conditions where this Origin does something, it is decent. But that just seems like this means that the conditions for this Origin to do anything worthwhile are a tad too specific for it to be generally viable.
Obviously personal mileage may vary. This just be my personal mileage.
 
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I wonder how common random starts are. I've personally never done one, so I have very little experience thinking about things from the perspective of people who play them.

I'd be more interested in serviles becoming a positive/neutral 0-cost trait rather than a negative trait. I'm not particularly a fan of the idea of making it negative just so it's easier to remove. At that point, you're changing the origin for the sole purpose of making it easier to make it irrelevant.

The species having different habitabilities really makes no sense to me. They live and evolved on the same planet.

I do think the idea of having some kind of event around removing the servile trait would be cool. Something the custodian team could look into, perhaps.

Personally, if I was going to change this origin to make the serviles more engaging, interesting, or powerful. I would make the serviles trait stronger. Have it produce more resources, perhaps. And maybe as a counterweight, add a negative trait for the main species. Maybe the fact that they've been relying on servile work for so long makes them worse in worker jobs?
 
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I'd be more interested in serviles becoming a positive/neutral 0-cost trait rather than a negative trait. I'm not particularly a fan of the idea of making it negative just so it's easier to remove. At that point, you're changing the origin for the sole purpose of making it easier to make it irrelevant.

On one hand, fair.
On the other hand: If I want the serviles, I can keep them. If I do not want them, I would be able to gene-mod them away. As is, the only way to get rid of a servile Species that have extra long-living and talented Leaders, despite never producing any, is to Purge them.
The origin mandating specifically servant-master relationship just feels excessively pigeon-holing without any real reason WHY it would need to be specifically that. I mean, sure, it CAN be that, but I do not see why it'd need to be SPECIFICALLY that.

Hell, Necrophages can make other Species into fully capable citizen, but making the servile Species into non-Serviles for Syncretic Evolution would be too much? :b

EDIT: For the record, I appreciate this discussion, always good to hear other perspectives.
If it is found that this Origin is viable enough as is: so be it, I shall be found to be incorrect on this topic.
 
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The species having different habitabilities really makes no sense to me. They live and evolved on the same planet.

This is indeed why I considered that suggestion to be an order of mileage less preferred even for myself.
As in: I consider it something that COULD be done, not something I would necessarily find the optimal solution.


As for potential justification: The other Species developed in parts of the world that do not share conditions with the rest of the Planet, and part of the reason they eventually "lost" the race for master-race is because the other Species was able to outcompete them.
And now that they can space-travel, there are worlds out there where they COULD outcompete the primary Species they lost the evolutionary race to being the primary Species to.

In other words: Despite each Planet having one specific type, it does not mean it has no other environments, just that they are not very common. Think Earth: Wet planet, yet there are tundras and deserts here.

Just my two cents on WHY it could be the case in this specific case. Whether the reasoning is valid or not is another thing entirely.
 
I wouldn't be adverse to serviles being able to do specialist jobs(think savant-like), just not ruler pop jobs. This would make them much more useful all around.

Its interesting, that at least at one point, serviles could generate military leaders, if you allowed them into military service. I've no idea if this has since been patched out. The last syncretic run I did was a couple of weeks back, and I wasn't allowing them into military service for RP reason, so I never actually bothered to check.