Nomads are unplayable

[t.et7.8.637.77]

I know I'm probably going to get a lot of hate, along with lots of tips on how to improve, but I'm out of the game for now...
So, I don’t understand how everyone in the forum refers to nomads as overpowered. I find them really exhausting. If you’re not starting as a high ruler but as a lowly nomad rider, it’s grind-heavy. You either spend all your time stealing herds (where no one knows how much you actually get out of it – I haven't been able to analyze the values in the common folder properly), or you rely on plundering. As a landsholder with many vassals, you earn almost nothing. Plus, you need gold, prestige, and especially horses to max out your government (by the way, I’ve never managed to reach 75k herds). If only plundering by the AI would happen automatically! But for me, nothing ever happens when I set it to automatic. Either they disband right after I raise raiders, or the AI doesn’t raise them at all. Based on my observations, it’s purely a matter of luck when anything happens. I’ve tried all possible combinations, but the criteria are still a mystery to me.

The playstyle would be much better with nomads if instead of the vassal limit of +1000 (which, by the way, is my only incentive to reach it), there would be a domain limit of, I don’t know, +50 or so. That would be awesome; then you could really farm herds. I know everyone in the forum says, "You have to stack and upgrade the camps and max out the extensions." Yes, yes, but first I need the gold, prestige, and herds. Something is always missing. Raiding would solve the problem if it weren't such a grind and if it would work automatically...

I’ve now tried all combinations: full intrigue, full warfare, and full stewardship. I even tried focusing on learning and knowledge to maximize the farms, but how can I do that without money and prestige? And diplomacy (let’s be honest, who plays that?). So, I’m going to pause the game for a while. This really needs to be fixed and balanced.

What I can say is that the nomadic Men-at-Arms are overpowered, that’s true. Even the simplest peasant shepherd gets raiders and mounted archers that just wipe everything out. Sure, it’s an advantage if you’re on the edge and can turn feudal realms into tributaries. But once a chaotic succession happens, everyone’s gone again. Or if a land in between breaks away, all the others that are no longer adjacent fall apart like a house of cards. If they didn’t cost gold, that would already be a good kickstart. But that would make them even more overpowered.

So, I see the best option as a nomad to quickly go tribal to take the horses as gold, which is just really strong. After that, you only need prestige for your overpowered archers and simply wipe everything out, as long as it’s not other nomads. XD

 

[Eltar1]

1) Focus on Military, Stewardship is much less important for Nomads. Your character should be a good Army Commander. Makes things easier.

2) Get Vassals and Tributaries with your military.

3) The Nomadic Legacy track is great, use that.

4) Host Nerges regularly for Gold and Prestige.

5) Demand or Negotiate Obedience from your most powerful vassals/kurultai before your character would die to eliminate Chaotic Succession or lessen the chance of Major Complication.

6) Raid a lot at start. Automatic raiding doesn't seem to work, so just do it manually. Ransom any characters you manage to capture in your raids, it gives a lot of gold.

7) Pick your battles, use terrain to your advantage.

8) You are a Nomad, you can Declare War with your armies already raised, so walk to the edge of enemy territory and perform a surprise attack.

9) Have many children and get Dynasty Members to be your Kurultai Members and ideally the bulk of your Vassals.

10) Focus on improving your nomadic capital, it's where your true power lies.

For the buildings, generally this is the order I build them in.

Main Yurt: Contemplation Corner and Loot Storage are a priority. The first one gives Monthly Lifestyle XP, the second one makes Raiding faster. Improved Pasturage is also good once you grow big enough and have vassals and tributaries that you stop migrating.


Square of the Tumen: This makes your military better, which is the most important thing, especially in early game. Get Cavalry Training, Large Loot Sacks and Weapon Storage (so you can raid longer without running out of supply fast). Add Semi-permanent Barracks in the late-game.


Barter Stalls: Best way to get some reliable gold income to supplement raiding early-on and the Summon Wealthy Visitors decision is the only way to get some powerful exclusive upgrades for the Main Yurt. Get the Foreign Visitors Quarters and basically everything that gives Gold Income at first.

Later on, you can get Scholar's Quarters to be able to trade for innovations. Herd Bartering allows you to exchange Herd for Gold during the merchant event, but it's not really worth it until you get it to at least Level 4.

Keep in mind, your realm has to border a non-Nomadic (and probably also non-tribal realm) to be able to build and upgrade this building, but the bonuses last even if you migrate away and this requirement disappears once the Paiza system is established.


Khan's Champions Yurt: Tacticians Yurt is great for the bonus advantage and Martial XP, really helps out in battles, so it's great to get early. The rest of the upgrades boost Knights in various ways, but those can wait.


Family Yurt: Upgrade it to at least Level 3 to unlock the Tutor court position.

For the best upgrades, Yurt of many Khans gives your Dynasty a great amount of Renown to start with, allowing you to max out a Legacy track early (the Nomadic one is good). Nomadic Nursery increases the Aptitude of Wet Nurse and Tutor, eventually ensuring that you get an Excellent or at least good candidate for both categories. Recreation Chamber reduces Stress Gain, increases Stress Loss and eventually adds a Health Boost. Not essential, but nice to have, especially later in your rulers's life if you want them to live as long as possible.


Court Yurt: Once you have a good amount of Vassals and Tributaries, build a Court Yurt with the Prostrating Rugs and Kneeling Rugs upgrades to get more Gold and Herd from them. Benevolent Conquest of the 86 Tribes is great if you have a vast empire with many different cultures, it really helps you with your herd gain. Kurultai by Blood is great for the yearly chance to get bonus Herd, as it's really easy to just add your dynasty members to your Kurultai to get the maximum chance. Festival Yurt is good just at Level 1 for cheaper Feasts, you can switch it out later. Plush Kurultai Seats are good if you have trouble with Obedience from your Kurultai Members.


Millet Storage: Get this for bigger Herd Capacity and get the upgrades that also increase Herd Gain and County Fertility Growth. So, later on, once you are aiming to get the 30000 Herd for Absolute Dominance, get Herder's Corner for even more Herd Capacity. It becomes less important in late game.


Oovo: You can replace Millet Storage with this one in the late game. The standouts here are Blessings of the Endless Sky, Fanatical Riders and Yurt of Premonitions. Shrine of the Righteous is also good if you still have trouble getting Obedience from your Kurultai members.

 

[CrazyRat]

Okay, I can sympathize with the feeling that you need to grind as a small Nomad as you are surrounded by the strongest polities, and your starting army is like 200 people… and that is not enough to raid many of the bigger things.

However, as much as I try to be understanding, I don’t think it is a problem specific to the Nomads. CK3 just does not work very well at the smaller scales. If you start in 868 as a count-tier ruler of backwater province, you will probably feel bored and powerfless. You may actually not have enough people to siege down castles, and your income is low enough that you cannot afford many interesting things too often. The Administrative government is even worse about the interaction with low tier rulers, and so on, and so on. (Then there are things like e.g. some Lifestyle trees requiring Count-tier vassals for them to work.) Meanwhile Tribal are equally dependent on raiding for growth as Nomads are.

Nomads at least have updates that are smaller in scope (costing e.g. 12 gold for subupdate), so I think they are better off in this regard – and once you are a little stronger, it gets better. They are far cry from being "unplayable".

 

[Andrzej2]

Maybe you are not migrating? Then herd income becomes pitiful and you may feel like you can't do anything.

I think that at the beginning when you have low dominance you should migrate once your fertility is low. Just find a herder and you can migrate without a fight. That way you should be able to get fist lvl of dominance quite easily and then start thinking about staying in one place and expanding your influence.

 

[PAnZuRiEL]

Raiding would solve the problem if it weren't such a grind and if it would work automatically...

This is your problem. You want to play a raiding government but you don't like raiding. Do you hate tribes as well? Do you hate controlling armies in wartime?

Now, raiding is absolutely not essential and you can definitely be successful without bothering with it. But raiding speeds up your resource gain, so it's a good idea. Moreover, every steppe holding has a garrison of only 25, so the steppe is the easiest place to raid even as a tiny nomad with just a single county -- as long as you can still beat your neighbours' armies, of course. Also, is it not when you're still up-and-coming that the game is actually engaging and exciting? And then as a nomad, if you lose your lands you just migrate, so it's also one of the most forgiving places to play as a count.

 

[Sledjer]

Barter Stalls: Best way to get some reliable gold income to supplement raiding early-on and the Summon Wealthy Visitors decision is the only way to get some powerful exclusive upgrades for the Main Yurt. Get the Foreign Visitors Quarters and basically everything that gives Gold Income at first.

Later on, you can get Scholar's Quarters to be able to trade for innovations. Herd Bartering allows you to exchange Herd for Gold during the merchant event, but it's not really worth it until you get it to at least Level 4.

Keep in mind, your realm has to border a non-Nomadic (and probably also non-tribal realm) to be able to build and upgrade this building, but the bonuses last even if you migrate away and this requirement disappears once the Paiza system is established.

Getting the upgrades and innovations is great, but do you really need to put such a focus on gold income? As a nomad, I've found that gold is mostly an afterthought in my experience. The bottleneck on construction has been the cooldown on activities for prestige, while the bottleneck for everything else is herd. Just herd income and the gold you get as a side benefit while raiding for herd is more than enough in my experience. I would never consider selling my herd for gold under any circumstance.

 

[ProfHardknocks]

This is a PEBCAK issue. There are several reddit threads and youtube videos that feature really strong Mongol playthroughs. I thought playing tall in Africa was a waste until I saw a video of a guy who played Mansa Musa's ancestor and made him the richest person in the world by playing tall. Eventually he went a little wider, as playing tall always seems to be an early and sometimes midgame thing.

 

[LucKylLoCo]

i think you made some gameplay mistake, first you never mention the nerge, did you actually did one ?


my problemas nomad ,is when you get the empire title, and you have plenty of vassals, do you guys still migrate ? i mean at this point in my game there is only 2 county with a herder, everything else is occupied, and so, with now fertility.
my point is, after some time, there is nowhere to migrate to, because, the land is low fertility everywhere. i mean even if i abandon some land to herder, a random guy will move in instantly even in low fertility.
so when you are at this point, what do you do ? (i havent became the greatest of khan yet, i wanted to conquer all the steppe county first.

 

[solamyas]

Your Yurt upgrades increases county fertility when you are big enough to afford them

 

[Eltar1]

Getting the upgrades and innovations is great, but do you really need to put such a focus on gold income? As a nomad, I've found that gold is mostly an afterthought in my experience. The bottleneck on construction has been the cooldown on activities for prestige, while the bottleneck for everything else is herd. Just herd income and the gold you get as a side benefit while raiding for herd is more than enough in my experience. I would never consider selling my herd for gold under any circumstance.

Gold is used to upgrade your buildings, create and expand your Man-At-Arms and can also be used to replenish them. You also need it to host Feasts and for Court Positions and you need a lot of it for the Trader interaction (for example, the Innovation one costs 2400 Gold). It's not about 'focusing' on gold income, it's about getting enough to get by. You need both Gold and Herd as a Nomad and Barter Stalls are the best reliable source of it early on. And getting level 1 of the 3 internal upgrades that give gold income is really cheap and helps you in the early game.

As for selling the Herd for Gold, that's basically only for the lategame, when you have so much Herd you don't know what to do with it and are at your Herd Limit. You can sell part of it to get 20 000 gold, basically eliminating your gold problems, and then replenish what you lost in a few years. That said, seems they nerfed it in the last patch.

 

[DiabloDeVille]

This is a PEBCAK issue. There are several reddit threads and youtube videos that feature really strong Mongol playthroughs. I thought playing tall in Africa was a waste until I saw a video of a guy who played Mansa Musa's ancestor and made him the richest person in the world by playing tall. Eventually he went a little wider, as playing tall always seems to be an early and sometimes midgame thing.

Having multiple gold mines will help you to be rich yes

 

[Kvesir]

i think you made some gameplay mistake, first you never mention the nerge, did you actually did one ?


my problemas nomad ,is when you get the empire title, and you have plenty of vassals, do you guys still migrate ? i mean at this point in my game there is only 2 county with a herder, everything else is occupied, and so, with now fertility.
my point is, after some time, there is nowhere to migrate to, because, the land is low fertility everywhere. i mean even if i abandon some land to herder, a random guy will move in instantly even in low fertility.
so when you are at this point, what do you do ? (i havent became the greatest of khan yet, i wanted to conquer all the steppe county first.

When you are at this point your main income is from vassals and tributaries in my experience. Max out your subject contracts and demand obedience to keep them in line. Then take your big army with OP MAA and go raid large feudal realms.

 

[CrazyRat]

When you have Empire, your own domain should have big enough Fertility equilibrium that you can live off your 6 Counties (with additional bonuses from vassals and tributaries); I generally do not migrate anymore. I think that one is WAI.

That said, I also never managed to properly target the Empire-tier title in a Migration, so I don’t know if it works properly.
Edit: also, as for the waiting for the Greatest of Khans until conquering the Steppe... well, I would say that the Great War of Defiance is definitely underwhelming if it is primarily against the non-Nomadic ruler :V

 

[Adonnus]

Bro I went from loser count nomad to Khagan in 1 lifetime, it's the same difficulty as being any other count