Market prices were set much more crudely in EU3, and the whole globe was involved in setting the price. There was no regional pricing.
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project ceasar is literally the anti-Vic3 at its core. it follows more developed vic2 economy - actual goods vs purchase orders of goods, actual quantity of goods vs balance of input/output, actual transport cost and movement of goods vs abstracted infrastructure/supplies. buildings cost money and material rather than building "mana" points, also building queue isnt centralized.. the pop system is directly from vic2 more or less, and you have movement of troops etc.
project cesar is basically what vic3 wouldve been if Johan was in charge. it is better charactarized as vic2.5
edit: ofc, not saying one is better than the other, but as a vic2 fan this is what i prefer. vic3 simulates so much more though, and has much more details... but again, this is a preferance, as there are so many things that are simulated in vic3 that i'd rather be without in order to have what project ceasar offers.
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Having played a lot of Victoria 2...
Victoria 2 basically didn't have an economy. Balancing the budget was ludicrously easy, and the only real limit on the number of buildings in your country was A) the number of pops you could promote to craftsmen and B) the number of building slots in a state.
Actual capital didn't matter.
People look back at Victoria 2 with overly rose coloured glasses.
I did prefer research in Vicky 2 though.
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this adresses nothing i said, also i am not here to argue for vic2, only saidi preferred it.
my point is, project ceasar's at the core works more like vic2 than vic3, and i gave specifics. beyond that it take ideas from imperator alot and eu4 (ofc), with some new stuff aswell. from vic3 i guess it takes 3d portraits
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I am following development of EU5 and I do think it also leans more towards Victoria 2 than anything else but I am fairly certain it does not have a closed economy like Victoria 2 does and its logistic costs are nothing similar to what Victoria 3 would require due to more intricate system (where even MAPI has a lot of kinks to resolve). It also has some things I noticed directly addresses some of the dynamics and indeed problems Victoria 3 has whether implementing similar things (economy of scale) or getting ahead of the problem (not having construction queue).
Overall I am a huge critic of centralized construction queue and lack of logistics in Victoria 3 (alongside with military micromanagement) but I think it is clear (and natural) that project caesar engages with problems and solutions to similar problems in Victoria 3 directly.
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God I can’t wait for EU5 to take away all the people who are playing Vic and expecting EU for some reason.
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i wasnt expecting eu, i was expecting updated vic2... but that was looooooong time ago. now i expect vic3 but with better performance and improved/reworked mechanics.
i will still follow development of vic3 even after eu5 releases. i dont get what it is that bothers you with people in a discussion forum discussing stuff...
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The newest update for Vicky 3 looks quite promising. Trade looks pretty good at what I expected to look like on release. Along with the treaty system they just talked about. Believe it or not, I think everyone here wants Vicky 3 to be successful? And like you said, the whole point of a forum is to discuss stuff. I think PDX games competing against each other is a great thing as it forces them to be better. Especially considering the state of releases from PDX in the last few years....
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im cautiously optimistic and agreed the new trade change looks good.
in general, vic3 is a good game and is improving, and much credit goes to the player base for whining and complaining (and also suggesting changes) - to answer the thread, no vic3 has not failed.
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Neither was there in Victoria 3 until a recent update... My primary point is that EU5 is certainly not influenced by Vic3
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Yes it really is the playerbase that deserves significant credit for the improvements that Vic3 has had over time - they have been relentless and it was really required.
Hopefully EU5 lives up to expectations and proves that Johan has learned fully from his mistakes with Imperator. I personally do not like Vic3 but I hope it can be a lesson for Wiz akin to what Imperator was for Johan. So much ignorance of potential playerbase complaints during development put them way behind the 8 ball. I can't describe it as anything other than hubris in complete honesty, but I think the slow acceptance that some parts of the game just weren't good shows humility and active reflection
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The eu5 talk here reminds me of something I feel super strongly about. I really hope the fanbases of Vic3 and Eu5 don’t start constantly flaming each other. There is room for both games to exist.
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There obviously is room for both games to exist. That's the whole point of contention - Vic 3 doesn't, and shouldn't have to be EU5. It's allowed to be it's own thing. You're getting EU5 - if you want that, go play that.
My issue is that a huge portion of people seem to think that all PDX games need to homogenize and do the same thing, just with different era aesthetics. No. I think it's really cool that there's a game focused on economics, and a game focused on war, and a game focused on characters, and then the down the middle "doing a bit of everything" game. They all get to have unique identities and niches, but a lot of people would like to see that eroded in favor of having every game cater to exactly what they want.
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This is what I do not understand with all these discussions. Every game in the portfolio of Paradox has its niche. Vic3 did not fully went into the space where Vic2 was, it was a design decision but a lot of root players expected something else.
I am not coming from EU4 and Vic2 to Vic3, I started with Stellaris into Paradox games and EU4 and Vic2 are not my kind of games. I even enjoy not to Micro the armies in wars in Vic3, its a different way of game play which I really enjoy. The scale is macro in wars and more micro in statehood and economics, which is a nice mix for me personally.
I just hope that Vic3 stays in development for another cycle or two after the current season, the progress they made is fine for me, there is improvement with every major patch so far. EU5 will soak up a lot attention and it will also have its haters, it will release with lakcing content and some undeveloped features as all new Paradox games are doing. If you take the flower glasses of, you will see that there is a lot of pressure with this project to get it right and it will fail for many people in many design decisions, same as Vic3 did.
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I think as of right now I’m not really afraid about them abandoning the game anymore. If that were the case than we’d be seeing things like Wiz no longer being in charge. Obviously plans change but we also have all the devs who have talked about stuff They want to do after this year.
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The plans for Victoria 3 are promising though. Trade will be upgraded considerably, which is great. On top of that, mechanics-wise, my top gripe is the lack of national flavour. This needs to be worked on quite a bit: nation-specific events, perhaps UI and art and of course nation-specific mechanics. This is a huge issue with most Paradox games, sadly, especially in early years of development.
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Yeah I don't really understand this? I got into Vicky 2 and by extension PDX games precisely *because* they did "everything". I came from Civ 5 and was blown away at how detailed the game was. I really really dislike the idea that a game needs a "niche" at the expense of other parts of the game.
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Ridiculous.
History cannot be understood as “everything”. It needs different lenses. The historical materialist economic lens of Vic 3 would be completely inappropriate in a war game like Hearts of Iron IV.
Crusader Kings is interesting precisely because of its character-based politics where you play a character and not a country, a design that is completely at odds with what Vic 3 (or EU for that matter) is trying to do - such mechanics would completely undermine everything about this game, its mechanics, and how it represents history.
Would Hearts of Iron IV be improved by a mechanic where your generals need to travel to attend their daughter’s weddings, and get stressed out because they have to socialize with someone they don’t like? No, of course not.
Similarly, a system of pop qualifications would be useless in CK3, where everyone other than the nobles and a select few others are basically peasants for their entire lives.
Broadly, Vic is a game about people (as a whole), EU is a game about states, CK is a game about rulers, and HOI is a game about war/tactics.
The ideal of “one game that does everything” is a false promise. It’s zero sum. History itself has no single representation, so how could a game that has to reckon with both historical context AND gameplay mechanics + design ever be expected to “do everything”?
EU is the closest you’re gonna get, but it’s making compromises to take that middle of the road approach too.
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I really, truly, can't wait
Part of the "everything" most of these games let you do is trivialize 90% of the gameplay systems through a solid grasp over one of them once you understand how to play. In Vic 3 it's the economy but in most paradox games it's the military. CK is the worst but it's still present in EU and Vic 2, you can't just run your country poorly and depend on having a human brain to ensure you never lose a single war under any circumstances and I personally am glad that's not in Vic 3. Civ has this problem too but there the issue is that science is always ridiculously OP
So the games might not be designed with a niche in mind but the experience of playing them very much feels like picking a game that focused on a specific niche
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