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Tinto Flavour #16 - 9th of May 2025 - Brandenburg & Prussia

Hello and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Fridays in which we take a look at the content of the super secret Project Caesar Europa Universalis V!

Today we will be talking about Brandenburg, and the main tag that it can form, Prussia. Therefore, today is even more special for two reasons. The first is that this is the first country that we talk about in which the content for the base country and the formable is aligned, as it was the historical result; in this category we have a few more important countries, such as England/Great Britain or Castile/Spain, of which we’ll talk more about in future TFs. The second is because we considered Brandenburg/Prussia one of the relevant tags in the period, and thus, it has more baseline content than the previous one; so far, we’ve only taken a look previously to one tag of that category, the Timurids (and you may have noticed that it was a long and meaty TF).

Let’s start now taking a look at the content, then:

The Electorate of Brandenburg was established as the Northern March in the Slavic Wends' territory. The region features loamy uplands and depressions with rivers and lakes, pine trees and heat, and a soil which is predominantly dry and sandy, but suitable for agriculture, making it to be called 'the sandbox of the Holy Roman Empire'.\n\nIn 1157, after claiming these lands from Jaxa of Köpenick, Elector Albrecht ‘the Bear’ Askanier officially became [GetCountry('BRA').GetGovernment.GetRulerTitle]. Initially limited to Havelland and Zauche, he encouraged the #italic Ostsiedlung#!'s process towards the Neumark east of the Oder, gradually incorporating it into his possessions, and colonists coming from Flanders and the Rhineland were invited to settle, fortifying their towns in the process. After his death in 1170, the Askanier dynasty continued this expansion for over 150 years, acquiring neighboring regions like the Oder Lagoon and the Uckermark, which expanded their influence to the Baltic Sea, but also led to conflicts with Denmark. However, the last Askanier, Elector Heinrich II., died without a direct heir in 1320.

Now, the von Wittelsbach dynasty has arrived, but the lack of interest in ruling over these lands casts a shadow over the future of the Electorate of Brandenburg.

Country Selection.png

As usual, consider all UI, 2D and 3D art WIP.

The starting situation of Brandenburg:
Brandenburg2.png

Brandenburg1.png

Brandenburg3.png

We are not attached to just showing the flatmap mode anymore! Yay!

It starts with a similar content setup to that of Saxony, which we showed some weeks ago:
Margraviate.jpg

Right to Inherit.jpg

Magdeburg Rights.jpg

Bergordnung.jpg

Here are some of the unique advances of both Brandenburg and Prussia:
Expansive Policies.png

Soldiers of Fortune.png

Found the Kammergericht.png

Geheimer Rat.png

Army Professionalism.png

The Goose Step.png

Brandenburg & Prussia might have some military-related advances, yeah… But take into account that this approx. half of the amount available, so there are non-military-related ones.

Let’s now take a look at the narrative content, which is quite meaty. This is one of the first starting events for Brandenburg:
Succession Issues1.png

Succession Issues2.png

Succession Issues3.png

Slightly painful…

As you see, there are around 30 events that may be triggered after this, of varied topics, that impact the governance of Brandenburg in the first decades of the game. One of the most interesting ones are those related to the ‘False Waldemar’ event chain:
False Waldemar.png

I don’t think you should trust a guy that looks that way…

After the year 1500, if certain triggers are met, you might receive an event regarding this Teutonic Order, which may lead to the formation of Prussia:
Teutonic Order.png

Although you can also form it organically, by expanding into the area (although the Emperor may have a say in this, as historically happened):
Form Prussia.png

A Prussian Crown.png

Compromise.png

Electorate of Prussia.png

Preussen Blau.png

This is a lovely color, isn’t it?

You may now figure that Prussia is a country with much more content in the late game, so I’m just going to show you some of it; but take into consideration that of the following events, the first one can trigger after 1530, the second after 1637, and the others in different dates after 1700:
Kreditwerk.png

Kreditwerk2.png


Pietism.png

Pietism2.png


Canton System.png

Canton System2.png


Kant.png


Clausewitz.png

Clausewitz2.png

Did you know that the Engine we use is named after him?

And some other content that you might get in the last two ages, as well:
Soldier King of Prussia1.png

Prussian Monarchy.png


Sanssouci.png

And that’s all for today! It was an intense week! And the next one, even more, since we will start publishing a second Tinto Flavour on Tuesdays! Therefore, the schedule will be the following:
  • Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback for Great Britain & Ireland
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about Vijayanagar and other ‘minor’ Indian countries
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about Delhi
Cheers!
 
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So if a Teutonic order survives until late game, there is no way Prussia can be formed?

Because it was a very special set of circumstances that allowed Prussia to be acquired by Brandenburg...
 
Some things that i didn't like after watching some videos. (i don't know where to post them so i will post them here)
Game seems to be way to easy....
Money seems to not matter that much (You can make a lot of money really easily)
Trade needs some work because it does seem to make way to much money way too easily.
And some personal thing the UI and all these colors on it feel really cartoonish i don't like it.
Your feedback doesn't have anything to do with Brandenburg/Prussia or the screenshots that were shown in the thread, so it doesn't belong here.
Also, not on you, but on other forum members, now that we're talking about this topic: Don't bring other threads/posts to the Tinto Talks/Flavour ones, please, as mixing conversations/topics doesn't help us to gather and apply the feedback, at all.
 
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What happens to people like Kant or Moses Mendelssohn if Brandenburg/Prussia doesn't exist (or becomes a one province minor in the Baltic).

Is it dynamic, or are these people hardcoded to a specific country?
 
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Since we don't use the system 'Admin Tech = 10/20/etc' as EU4, the only way to gatelocking this effectively would be to add an 'Is Age of Absolutism' requisite, which we think would feel arbitrary and opposite to dynamic content. But we're open to suggestions on how to improve the immersion about this, as usual.
How about locking it behind a very specific cultural values and/or a certain progression of advances to simulate the development of a system of government. Big rewards should have big costs and tradeoffs.
 
Looking at it just as an issue of "Prussia was formed by the Brandenburg player too early" simplifies it too much and the simple solution - gating Prussia behind some arbitrary time period - also doesn't feel right as a result
But, in my opinion, the issue is caused by multiple things currently wrong with the game that lead to unrealistic outcomes.

1. He was able to expand way too fast in the HRE by just creating claims and then annexing allies in wars.
In my opinion, you shouldn't be able to take land in the HRE as a HRE prince by any means other than dynastic claims. What I would do is just disable all other CBs outright. You already disable no-CB, but this is clearly not enough. The HRE only devolved into an empire in name only after Westphalia. Modeling it as that in 1337 is wrong and leads to wrong outcomes like we saw in the videos with the consolidation into 10 blobs in just 100 years. The rules should become looser should the Emperor lose the "Religious war", which is what the 30 Years War is currently represented as, even though irl it was also about imperial authority. It's okay for this part of the world to play different.

2. He was able to have Poland play wrecking ball for him against the Teutons
There is no world where the Polish king would help a German prince conquer Prussia without getting anything for himself. This is also simply a problem of how alliances work in EU4 and seemingly here too. I can't think of a single instance in real life where allies joined offensive wars and helped their ally conquer land they wanted for themselves just because they liked them. If, and this is a huge if, Poland would do anyting of this sort, they would demand the majority of territories for themselves, simply because they are the bigger power.

Really the issue here isn't that he was able to form Prussia. It seems logical that the "King in Prussia" idea would've happened sooner or later once the prequisites were met - a HRE prince wants to be a king but can't because of HRE de jure laws -> rules over an independent non-HRE territory (irl the fealty to the Poles was broken by treaty during the Deluge) -> elevates his non-HRE territory to a kingdom. The issue here is that he as Brandenburg was able to blob into this state so early.
Second thing I really hope paradox solves. I thought they had mentioned something about the ai getting their fare share of the winnings based on contribution but seemingly not I guess
 
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Good Tinto Flavour on Brandenburg and Prussia.
 
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I have a question about language dynamics within the HRE. Currently, all dutch, german, and low german varieties are lumped together as "German", whilst occitan and french are split. Does this mean you cannot set dutch, low german, or high german as your court language?

In light of historical accuracy it might be better to resent middle dutch, middle low german, and middle high german as distinct languages. All three were directly attested in a wide range of contexts. Middle dutch has a large corpus of middle dutch literature. Middle low german served as the official language of the hanseatic league. Early modern high german was the court language of the HRE.
 
Please keep the historically accurate division of Brandenburg and Prussia. The electorate was attached to Brandenburg, not Prussia.

Furthermore it was not a given that Prussia would be united with Brandenburg, it had a lot of luck involved. First of, if the Teutons are not secularized this event should be unable to trigger. Second, even if the ruler of Prussia is then of the same dynasty of Brandenburg, they should first have to die before Brandenburg can get a personal union. Third, in my opinion the succession of Prussia should be more dynamic, similar to the Burgundian Succession in eu4, where any country in the HRE with a dynasty member on the throne of (teutonic) Prussia and with the extinction of its last ruler, being able to inherit it.

How it is done currently is way too much railroaded and not based in history, unless it is not the whole picture.
The entire order wasn't secularized only their Prussian holdings. A new grandmaster was chosen, and they still had holdings in the HRE and Livonia. Also, I'm not sure why Prussia and Brandenburg having rulers of the same dynasty would matter. The personal union happened via marriage.
 
The entire order wasn't secularized only their Prussian holdings. A new grandmaster was chosen, and they still had holdings in the HRE and Livonia. Also, I'm not sure why Prussia and Brandenburg having rulers of the same dynasty would matter. The personal union happened via marriage.
You are argueing sementics, you knew what I meant with secularizing the Teutons in context of EU5, i.e. the Tag that controls Prussia.

Same dynasty does matter, because the only reason the Hohenzollern of Brandenburg got co-ruler status and the marriage was because the Duke of Prussia was a Hohenzollern. It is questionable whether it would have happened if they weren't of the same dynasty.
 
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You are argueing sementics, you knew what I meant with secularizing the Teutons in context of EU5, i.e. the Tag that controls Prussia.

Same dynasty does matter, because the only reason the Hohenzollern of Brandenburg got co-ruler status and the marriage was because the Duke of Prussia was a Hohenzollern. It is questionable whether it would have happened if they weren't of the same dynasty.
I'm not arguing semantics or anything. I'm clarifying that the Order's Prussian holdings were secularized, not the entire order.

It's certainly questionable if it would have happened if they weren't the same dynasty, but the Brandenburg-Prussia personal union was secured through marriage. First, through John Sigismund of Brandenburg and Anna of Prussia, and also through John Sigismund's father and Anna's sister.
 
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Regarding Masuria in XIVth century. Certainly there was no such a thing back then. Masuria is a result of Mazovian colonization of Prussia which occured due to depopulation of areas inhabited by Pruthenians before. And Masurians if they were to be culture, should basically and a bit simplistically represent Mazovians converted to protestantism.
 
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1. Yes, through the event that I've shown.
2. The Hohenzollern start in Hohenzollern, a Unique Location Minor that owns Balingen, so they can end up ruling organically. But some events may lead to them to end up as rulers of Brandenburg, too.
Does it make sense for them to have a CB speed considering they actually expanded quite slowly? Or due to density of locations in HRE without it wont be able to keep up?
 
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Are you planning to adding options like ''fast conversion''/speed up expulsion of culture by using military? Or possibility of using my standing army to solve some domestic issues like estate having too much power/building roads during peacetime ect. (know that this has no connection to this dev diary but is bugging me for quite some time.)
 
Hello, I'd like to suggest an option for characters when assigning them to cabinets or armies. Instead of directly displaying their admin, diplo, or mil values, it would be more fun to see qualities like disciplined, calm, wrathful, and so on, which in turn have a random value for each quality. For example, disciplined would be between 30 and 90 mil points, so that the player can't directly measure which character is better. I'm not suggesting changing the system entirely or directly copying CK3. I'd simply add the option to measure characters this way at the start of each game. Thanks and great job...
 
Does it make sense for them to have a CB speed considering they actually expanded quite slowly? Or due to density of locations in HRE without it wont be able to keep up?
I don't think they'd be unable to keep up. Critically most of their acquisitions were via inheritance. It's really only Pommerania which they had to fight over and that was because Sweden claimed the duchy as well. It's only with the Silesian Wars when Prussia starts violently expanding, and even then it's not by bullying minor princes, but by throwing down with the Austrians and later Poles, their two largest neighbors.
 
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Will we get some historic models for historic characters? Even in sandbox, I am fine with people like da Vinci and Kant to appear, but if he is called Immanuel Kant, it puts me a bit off when he has a beard like Karl Marx.
 
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The first of the issues you mention is something we're already taking a look at, as adding a few more rules about expansion in the HRE

My suggestion would be to add an HRE control value to all HRE provinces owned by HRE members, radiating from the capital of the Emperor. Countries with high imperial control in their provinces and/or countries weaker or much weaker then the emperor would be subject to stricter rules, while places far away from the Emperor would naturally be less restricted and therefore more chaotic (Like Italy for instance, due to the Alps increasing distance-from-capital cost).

I think it would be a good compromise (and good simulation) of the historical reality: while places like Germany were under more direct imperial control, places like Italy would often straight up defy the Emperor, both because far away and very rich and independent.
 
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