• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

ArynI

Sergeant
11 Badges
Apr 29, 2019
86
495
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
Devs often claim they don’t want to treat AI differently when it comes to the difficulty of the game. But there are still areas where players are given the upper hand in contrast to this approach. Thus, I am thinking about dread.

It can make AI effectively harmless towards you if they are afraid enough, but I am not aware of anything it does it towards player. It’s even more important now when Nomads have they dread cap increased. So, I suggest:

1) Make player gain stress if he acts against character he fears and does actions AI have high acceptance bonuses due to dread for it (like refusal of marriage offer from feared character, blackmailing of feared character etc.) and since this is something player can’t actively fight against (i. e. increasing own boldness) and since they are players who are fiercely opponents of more challenge, make it a game rule.

Also, there is thing which bothers be in terms of dread and that is its positively without cons. In reality those dreaded rulers were often hated, and everyone has his turning point (think about many roman emperors for example), so:

2) Make high dreaded rulers more likely to be target of assassination attempts from AI, as this is what they would probably aim to do trying to get rid of tyrant while evading open confrontation.

3) Make dreaded ruler´s heir and successor from his dynasty to get opinion malus called “dreaded predecessor” when he gains throne. It will apply to all characters except his dynasty and will tick down with the time.

This will imho make dread less one sided tool while still powerful enough for players to pursuit if they wish. I can also see some interesting strories coming from this setting.

What are your opinion about dread? And do you know of any mod which does something like this, or would it be hard to try to implement this for myself?
P.S.: suggestion made
 
  • 12
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:
I'm not sure about all of that, but yes, dread should absolutely apply to the player character and cause stress if you act against characters you are intimidated/terrified by. Players being immune to dread which often is recommended as one of the stronger ways to keep vassals in line is dumb.
 
  • 11
  • 4Like
Reactions:
Yeah, Dread is too overpowering and needs a downside too.

I think another good idea would be to add a counterpart to Dread called Honor or something, which would signify your character being seen as a fair and just ruler. Characters that are honorable and just or value those things would be more willing to do what you want.

In contrast, dishonorable, cruel characters could consider Honor a weakness to be exploited.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
Yeah, Dread is too overpowering and needs a downside too.

I think another good idea would be to add a counterpart to Dread called Honor or something, which would signify your character being seen as a fair and just ruler. Characters that are honorable and just or value those things would be more willing to do what you want.

In contrast, dishonorable, cruel characters could consider Honor a weakness to be exploited.
Isn't that what prestige is for?
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Isn't that what prestige is for?
not really. and I believe PDX had some plans for doing the other side of the spectrum, judging from the description of Villains & Vagabonds:
Villains & Vagabonds - Events and content around Dread and Tyranny, exploring what it means to be dreaded, leveraging your fearsome reputation, making dread more visible, and the consequences and opportunities of being a tyrant. It’d also be interesting to explore the other side of the coin from Dread - fairness, and honor.
sadly, said event pack lost, so we'll never know.
 
  • 2Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Isn't that what prestige is for?
No, Prestige is how famous your character is. As was said, it was sort of a theme of that proposed Villains and Vagabonds event pack that lost to Wards and Wardens.
not really. and I believe PDX had some plans for doing the other side of the spectrum, judging from the description of Villains & Vagabonds:

sadly, said event pack lost, so we'll never know.
They can still revisit that concept later, so hopefully we will.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
No, Prestige is how famous your character is. As was said, it was sort of a theme of that proposed Villains and Vagabonds event pack that lost to Wards and Wardens.

They can still revisit that concept later, so hopefully we will.
I just hope that it wasn't scraped & repurposed into Legitimacy. That would be a letdown.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
I just hope that it wasn't scraped & repurposed into Legitimacy. That would be a letdown.
Dread does need a rework, so best chance for them to revisit it would be then. I don't think Legitimacy is that either, at least, it works in a completely different way, so hopefully the devs think so too.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Villians & Vagabonds is badly needed with KoS, with 150 dread cap, the only ideal khan is a vengeful and cruel tyrant.​

You mean the guy who hunts frequently with his comrades, and – for some reason – it is enough to scare the beejezus out of everyone?

Edit: More seriously, though, the Dread triggers for this expansion certainly need fine-tuning. I mean, outside of Nerge giving unreasonable amounts of Dread, I remember I got and event about interactions with Nomads when I was playing as the Byzantines. It gave me like 50 Dread for just spitting on the ground in the front of the emissaries (and an option where I could become a tributary gave few hundred Prestige, out of all things), and not any outlandish thing like head-sending.

It feels like the Dread gain numbers are really too high in many parts of newest DLC.
 
  • 3Haha
Reactions:
Well if they have any plans tied to event pack I hope we get free dread rework instead since it deserves more then be gated behind events in DLC. Also the scope doesn’t seem that large for start.
Regarding honor/valour I am afraid we are already quite high with social resources now with influence and obedience from DLC’s.
 
Well if they have any plans tied to event pack I hope we get free dread rework instead since it deserves more then be gated behind events in DLC. Also the scope doesn’t seem that large for start.
Regarding honor/valour I am afraid we are already quite high with social resources now with influence and obedience from DLC’s.
Influence and Obedience are unique to Administrative and Nomadic governments respectively. And this is a social game, so having more depth to its social systems would be a good thing.
 
I'm not sure about all of that, but yes, dread should absolutely apply to the player character and cause stress if you act against characters you are intimidated/terrified by. Players being immune to dread which often is recommended as one of the stronger ways to keep vassals in line is dumb.
Have you posted smth like that in suggestions anywhere? If no, you def should, otherwise i'll steal it, because imo that's a great idea
 
Yeah, Dread is too overpowering and needs a downside too.

I think another good idea would be to add a counterpart to Dread called Honor or something, which would signify your character being seen as a fair and just ruler. Characters that are honorable and just or value those things would be more willing to do what you want.

In contrast, dishonorable, cruel characters could consider Honor a weakness to be exploited.
it does kinda step on the legitimacy's tail though....
 
it does kinda step on the legitimacy's tail though....
Being seen as the legitimate king is not the same thing as being seen as just and honorable.

You gain legitimacy from the clergy, from being married to the right dynasty, for hosting hunts and feasts and reminding people about your line through funerals, legends and court musicians and poets. You'd gain Honor in a different way and it would function closer to Dread (or rather, reworked dread).
 
Being seen as the legitimate king is not the same thing as being seen as just and honorable.

You gain legitimacy from the clergy, from being married to the right dynasty, for hosting hunts and feasts and reminding people about your line through funerals, legends and court musicians and poets. You'd gain Honor in a different way and it would function closer to Dread (or rather, reworked dread).
it reminders me how it worked in Medieval 2 Total war where chivalry/dread were parts of one axis
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
No, Prestige is how famous your character is. As was said, it was sort of a theme of that proposed Villains and Vagabonds event pack that lost to Wards and Wardens.
Prestige is more than just fame, and I assumed the concept of honour was attached to it. Afterall, you lose prestige if you dishonour a treaty or an alliance.
 
Prestige is more than just fame, and I assumed the concept of honour was attached to it. Afterall, you lose prestige if you dishonour a treaty or an alliance.
but, on the other hand, you gain prestige if you e.g. invite someone as Honored Guest, and then instead of actually honoring them as expected, you insist that they are very welcome to YOUR hospitality; or your vassal loses prestige if they actually pay tribute to you during the Majesty Tour (… as they should if they are dutiful vassal); or IIRC you lose Prestige if you let yourself be publicly dissuaded from engaging in gambling during the Chariot race; or thousand others things that build your prestige, but aren’t really particular honourable.

it certainly contains some facets of reputation & face, but it is a far cry from (chivalric or otherwise) honor
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Prestige is more than just fame, and I assumed the concept of honour was attached to it. Afterall, you lose prestige if you dishonour a treaty or an alliance.
But prestige progress IS fame. you lose FAME for dishonoring alliances. You also lose FAME when you declare war while not having enough prestige for casus belli